Still looking for a 66 date Phord 3 speed top loader. Preferably in the early July to earlier in 66.

 

Mike —Here is a good lead to a person who may have one or who knows someone who does:

DME, LLC
625 Forest Hills Road,
Forest Hills, KY 41527

606-237-6648
Dennis C. Maroudas
DMELLS@suddenlink.net

 

I know Dennis very well and he can't help. He was one of the first I checked with. That's for the effort tho.

 

I know Dennis well also. It is just the kind of thing he might have acquired in his many bulk manual trans purchases.

 

Did you see this one on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/353486366273

 

I searched eBay a little. He's real proud of that one and I think the Olds version had a cast iron tail housing and that one is aluminum. Thanks for the link.

 

How about this one for $250.00:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13443856808...evt=1&mkcid=28

 

$400.00

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12463861854...EAAOSwBrhe6tR3

 

Thanks,most of the time they don't respond when you ask for a date code.

 

I try to break through all that by asking them to post a picture of the letters and numerals on the case. Then, you do the decode. If they think you are asking them for the decode, you are not as likely to get a response.

 

Unless I am mistaken, the bolt pattern for the bellhousing is different between GM and Ford, in that they are not "indexed" the same. I ran into this on a '69 442 that came from the factory with a Dearborn 3-speed. The owner insisted that he wanted a top loader 4-speed, so he brought me one to install. When it was bolted up, the transmission was rotated counterclockwise, as viewed from the rear. I had to make a wedge for the transmission mount to bolt to the crossmember and heat the shifter handle to bend it so it would stick straight up through the floor! This was with a factory Olds aluminum bellhousing, so be aware.

 

Absolutely the phord 3 speed has a different bolt pattern from the Olds and is the reason the 65 up bellhousings have two bolt patterns. I can't speak to the Phord 4 speed toploader but we have several 3 speed trans and shifters. The 3 speed Phord shifter has the same stick angle as anyother Olds stick. I know exactly what you're saying about how the trans would be turned some but I've never seen it noted in any documents about have to use a spacer/wedge to mount the trans to the crossmember. If anybody reading this has a factory 3 speed Phord trans let us know the angle of the stick or if any spacer/wedge is used. Thanks for the info Rocketman.

 

3 speed Dearborn in my 67 wagon,

 

Not really turned much looks like. Thanks for sharing. Is that tailhousing aluminum?

 

All iron just painted gray.

 

I presented my point incorrectly. What I was trying to convey is that you can't use a factory Ford 3-speed top loader case in a GM application. If you look at the bolt patterns in the image below, you will notice that the GM pattern (larger holes) are straight across from one another; whereas, the Ford pattern is rotated slightly counterclockwise. I believe that Ford did this to prevent interchanging the two transmissions.

 

Hmmm, but if you look at my picture the Dearborn 3 speed uses the inner bolt holes which are smaller than the Muncie bolt holes. In other words the in line holes on the bell housing. Never noticed but in your picture of the parts place bell housing the tilt looks odd, will have to look at an old one with the 2 sets of holes drilled. So what you are saying is the BOP Dearborn is for GM only and not switchable/mountable with a regular Ford 3 or 4 speed application? This would make sense.

 

That was my point. The GM pattern, as in Muncie 4-speed, uses the larger bolt pattern. In your picture you can see part of the rear face of the bellhousing on the left side, but not on the right side; yet the transmission top plate is horizontal.

 

I'm not sure what your point is. Ford and GM used different bolt patterns in nearly every function. This had nothing to do with "preventing interchange", they were just independent design decisions. As for the Dearborn toploader bolt pattern, every GM MT bellhousing cast from 1965 (when the M14 HD three speed was first offered) through the mid-70s came with both Muncie and Ford trans bolt patterns. The GM-spec toploaders used a GM bearing retainer and input shaft, but the cases were the same as on any other Ford three speed.

 

Are you saying the Phord 3 speed toploader uses a different bolt pattern than the GM used 3 speed toploader? Just trying to get clarity and I remember you saying that you put a Phord 4 speed toploader in a 69 442 I belive it was. Did you use the same bellhousing?

 

BINGO!! I am saying that the actual bolt pattern is the same between the GM Dearborn and Ford Dearborn 3-speed; however, the entire pattern is indexed (rotated) counterclockwise for the GM application. I used a factory Olds aluminum bellhousing, with the dual bolt pattern and the 4-speed transmission bolted right up, but was rotated several degrees counterclockwise. I tried to find the pictures that I have of the toploader 4-speed installation in the '69 442, but they must be in one of my old desk tops. If you have access to a Ford 3-speed toploader and a GM version, look at the two of them from the front and I believe that you will see what I mean.
If you look at the image that Joe posted, you can see that the Ford pattern is rotated slightly counterclockwise as evidenced by the bottom of the mounting surface. The factory Ford bolt pattern on the transmission is straight across at both the top and bottom.

 

Yes that's a given. The Phord is rotated somewhat but there was no difference in the shifters or having to use a wedge or anything to use the Phord in the GM car.

 

https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/910217906159166/ is another lead for $200

(edit —sent link via pm.)

It is hard to read the date code on my phone but my take is May 10, 1966.

 

You might post a wanted ad on this Pontiac board. I see where a member there junked 4 of them because there are so few buyers.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=800354

 

Thanks

 

CO helpfully deletes Facebook links, but ironically if you quote the original post, it's right there.

 

A closer look at the partial picture posted by the seller suggests the FB 3 speed is a Saginaw.

 

I'd say "suggests" is an understatement.

 

David Kee is a major rebuilder of 4 speed top loaders. There is a good chance that they may run across some 3 speeds:

http://4speedtoploaders.com/store/index.html

 

I have called them many many many times,left messages with no response.

 

I think I responded to your PM saying it was a Saginaw,not a Phord.

 

I have this transmission, pulled recently from a cleanout of a local yard that was crushing out. This is a Ford unit, right, I haven't researched it yet. Tailshaft and shifter bracket are aluminum. Appears to be / maybe is? 10 spline input, 27 spline output.

 

Yes it's a Phord Toploader. The date code will be above the front shift arm and will be upside down.

 

Okay, on the main case, which is cast iron. Again, am not super knowledgeable on the Ford transmissions, but I did think this one was worth saving. Front flange of main case, appears to have a Dual pattern, not sure what they are, only Ford, or something else. Anyone else use this transmission? AMC?

 

I'm not sure other than GM who used the trans. We can't use the tailhousing but can use the main case if the date code is good for us.

 

My buddy has this Ford 3 speed. He says it's a 66.
LMK if you need more information or are interested.

 

The HEF CV code is for a 1965-66 Mustang, so that trans has the Ford input shaft and bearing retainer, not the GM version.

 

Yes we figured out that all Dearborns are not created equal.

 

I sent you a PM. I have a '66 Dearborn 3 speed for sale. I'm not sure if I need so many messages before I can send a PM successfully.

 

I got it and responded to it.