When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I just received my order from Clark455 and these thrust plates are quality pieces. Nice to have a factory-style alternative for a roller cam. Thanks for bringing these to market.
I put way too much design work into this design to just only build a few for myself originally. Besides being THE answer for a rollercam installation like Vista is doing, these cam plates provide perfect cam control - no more bouncing around timing light readings due to the camshaft moving around (unless the chain is already wacked!). Perfect camshaft thrust control also vastly improves the life of the oil pump drive gear, the timing chain, and also the cam lobes and lifters in standard hydraulic flat tappet cam installations too.
I have just ordered in enough of the 93200 bearing grade bronze to do another run of 50 - the damn bronze has almost doubled in price since last January (holy smokes). I am getting e-mails from everybody that wants them, so I have notified the machinists that the material is coming and I need these run ASAP. At least the machinists have agreed to hold price for this next run...
Getting another batch into existence is the primary problem right now.
Whether I work with you as forum members and generate PayPal invoices for you (works out less expensive as I don't have to pay Ebay fees and sales tax doesn't enter the equation), OR have them available on Ebay is going to work either way. The problem is getting another batch of these plates into existence. I have had lack luster response on these since I brought them back from extinction, so I haven't run all that many of them. Now all of a sudden, my e-mail inbox is getting flooded with everybody wanting one. Hey that's great, right? Well.... the same machinists that produce our specialty CNC machined billet items for Hydratech Braking Systems are the same ones that also run these cam plates. We are currently flooded with orders for our hydraulic brake assist systems, and now I need to find a way to slip another much larger batch of these into production somewhere in the mix. I have all of the material ordered and inbound - holy smokes how prices for metals has skyrocketed - good grief! The machinists have agreed to do this next run holding price because I am doing a double sized run this time, BUT there is no escaping the material costs price hikes. I have negotiated at least a decent pricing with a specialty metal supply house out of Jersey, but I have to re-evaluate per part costs with the inflated material costs now coming into play. Shipping costs for the material from Jersey here to Nashville has also exploded. Net per part costs have to go up, but hoping only about $10-$15 per plate when all is said and done. Since Hydratech production comes first, I have to sweet talk the machinists into sliding these in somewhere. If another company like John Deere, Parker - Hannafin, or Whirlpool run into a jam on something, then I have a golden opportunity to get their CNC booths occupied with another run of these plates - that's just how this works...
For the today, here, and now, I have zero left on hand. When will the next batch be ready? That's the golden question, but pushing for this to happen within the next 30 days or so (fingers crossed). Best I can say right now is "stay tuned", knowing that I am pushing to get these done ASAP. I don't particularly make any money on these, but REALLY enjoy helping out my fellow Oldsmobile gearheads with these parts.
Mondello has sourced a few, as has Dick Miller, so who knows, maybe right when I get the next batch done those guys may have copied the plate and will undercut me by debuting cheap replicas - or not... I think once anybody sees just how much machining actually goes into these plates, that may cool their jets real fast regarding copying them - time will tell, as it always does. Since it's not a money maker, maybe they won't touch it (unless they offshore it)(or try to make it out of an inferior alloy).
Paul
Last edited by Clark455; March 17th, 2022 at 05:18 PM.
This cam thrust plate was originally designed by GM specifically for the changeover to roller cams in the '85 Olds V8 engines (some VIN 9 exceptions). It is mandatory for a roller cam installation. The flat tappet cams all have a mild slant to the cam lobes to induce lifter rotation. This, combined with the oil pump gear also wanting to pull the cam rearward in its operations, always pulled the camshaft rearward considerably. This made forward movement of the cam rather rare. BUT switching over to a roller cam provides dead even cam lobes, so the only thing pulling the camshaft rearward when roller cam equipped is the oil pump drive gear actions. With some local Olds guys I used to run with back in Detroit, their timing light readings would always bounce around, having them think it was distributor related. Anytime one of them tore down an engine and installed one of these cam thrust plates per my advice, the timing light readings were nice and stable afterwards. This made them run smoother, and eliminated a strange resonant oil pump drive noise that could be heard with a keen ear in a quieter car at certain lower RPM’s (strange Olds engine idiosyncrasy).
So the benefits of running one of these plates on a hydraulic flat tappet (old school non roller) cam is still perfect cam control (but without counting on a so / so thrust button bolt to do it). Perfect cam control helps to minimize cam lobe wear, timing chain, and oil pump drive gear wear. Keeping the cam controlled this precisely also helps make them run smoother (reference back to the statement if timing light readings bouncing around all over the place before installation of one of these cam thrust plates). While rare, I pulled a mechanical fuel pump out of a 350 years ago, wondering why in the world I was hearing weird noises coming from it, seeing weird wear marks on the side of the actuating arm. I put a fresh pump back in it, then whipped out my mechanics stethoscope to listen to the area. At certain RPM's, I was hearing this nasty noise of intermittent mechanical rubbing I had never heard before. I pulled the fuel pump back out, and there where the same strange wear witness marks on the fuel pump arm. I talked to the customer about this, and he said that he had installed a roller timing chain in about 6 months ago, and was hearing this weird noise ever since. I asked him if he would rather slot the fuel pump mounting holes or tear the front cover back off to make sure the cam sprocket wasn't coming loose. He sheepishly admitted that he may not have torqued the cam sprocket bolt down all the way, and asked if I would tear back into it to check. I really don't like doing this, wrestling the timing covers back out of an Olds isn't fun. Anyway... the cam bolt was found to be torqued right down on the money. I did take a small pry bar and found that the cam would move towards the front of the engine rather easily. I showed the customer, and he was puzzled that it would do that. So his fancy double roller timing chain was occasionally hitting the fuel pump arm. I showed him GM PART# 22527023 which was still available at the time. He was a bit skeptical at first. But this was a genuine GM part, he just didn't believe it would fit his older 350. I ordered in the part, the customer stopped in once I had it installed, showing him how his cam sprocket could no longer move - he was surprised. I got the vehicle back together for him, threw him the keys the next day, and had him report back a week later. Besides no more occasional weird noise (from the double roller chain hitting the fuel pump arm), he said the car ran smoother and better all the way around - even gave me a $50 tip for taking such good care of him!
Summary? Mandatory on a roller cam, but still highly recommended on a conventional hydraulic flat tappet cam. I won't build an Olds without it.
I do have a dead stock '79 Formula Firebird 403 sitting here, and I am getting a LOT of inquiries from the '77-'79 Trans Am 403 crowd, so it may come to pass that I tear into my 403 to develop one for this engine. Due to the vastly larger cylinders still crammed into a small block package, GM moved the hydraulic lifter oil feed galleries up higher to clear the larger bores / moving parts. No promises, but I endeavor to get into this 403 sometime this year, possibly resulting in a new design for this short run engine based upon the shear amount of inquiries I am receiving.
Paul
Last edited by Clark455; April 1st, 2022 at 03:33 PM.
This cam thrust plate was originally designed by GM specifically for the changeover to roller cams in the late '85 Olds V8 engines. It is mandatory for a roller cam installation. The flat tappet cams all have a mild slant to the cam lobes to induce lifter rotation. This, combined with the oil pump gear also wanting to pull the cam rearward in its operations, always pulled the camshaft rearward considerably. This made forward movement of the cam rather rare. BUT switching over to a roller cam provides dead even cam lobes, so the only thing pulling the camshaft rearward when roller cam equipped is the oil pump drive gear actions. With some local Olds guys I used to run with back in Detroit, their timing light readings would always bounce around, having them think it was distributor related. Anytime one of them tore down an engine and installed one of these cam thrust plates per my advice, the timing light readings were nice and stable afterwards. This made them run smoother, and eliminated a strange resonant oil pump drive noise that could be heard with a keen ear in a quieter car at certain lower RPM’s (strange Olds engine idiosyncrasy).
So the benefits of running one of these plates on a hydraulic flat tappet (old school non roller) cam is still perfect cam control (but without counting on a so / so thrust button bolt to do it). Perfect cam control helps to minimize cam lobe wear, timing chain, and oil pump drive gear wear. Keeping the cam controlled this precisely also helps make them run smoother (reference back to the statement if timing light readings bouncing around all over the place before installation of one of these cam thrust plates). While rare, I pulled a mechanical fuel pump out of a 350 years ago, wondering why in the world I was hearing weird noises coming from it, seeing weird wear marks on the side of the actuating arm. I put a fresh pump back in it, then whipped out my mechanics stethoscope to listen to the area. At certain RPM's, I was hearing this nasty noise of intermittent mechanical rubbing I had never heard before. I pulled the fuel pump back out, and there where the same strange wear witness marks on the fuel pump arm. I talked to the customer about this, and he said that he had installed a roller timing chain in about 6 months ago, and was hearing this weird noise ever since. I asked him if he would rather slot the fuel pump mounting holes or tear the front cover back off to make sure the cam sprocket wasn't coming loose. He sheepishly admitted that he may not have torqued the cam sprocket bolt down all the way, and asked if I would tear back into it to check. I really don't like doing this, wrestling the timing covers back out of an Olds isn't fun. Anyway... the cam bolt was found to be torqued right down on the money. I did take a small pry bar and found that the cam would move towards the front of the engine rather easily. I showed the customer, and he was puzzled that it would do that. So his fancy double roller timing chain was occasionally hitting the fuel pump arm. I showed him GM PART# 22527023 which was still available at the time. He was a bit skeptical at first. But this was a genuine GM part, he just didn't believe it would fit his older 350. I ordered in the part, the customer stopped in once I had it installed, showing him how his cam sprocket could no longer move - he was surprised. I got the vehicle back together for him, threw him the keys the next day, and had him report back a week later. Besides no more occasional weird noise (from the double roller chain hitting the fuel pump arm), he said the car ran smoother and better all the way around - even gave me a $50 tip for taking such good care of him!
Summary? Mandatory on a roller cam, but still highly recommended on a conventional hydraulic flat tappet cam. I won't build an Olds without it.
I do have a dead stock '79 Formula Firebird 403 sitting here, and I am getting a LOT of inquiries from the '77-'79 Trans Am 403 crowd, so it may come to pass that I tear into my 403 to develop one for this engine. Due to the vastly larger cylinders still crammed into a small block package, GM moved the hydraulic lifter oil feed galleries up higher to clear the larger bores / moving parts. No promises, but I endeavor to get into this 403 sometime this year, possibly resulting in a new design for this short run engine based upon the shear amount of inquiries I am receiving.
Paul
this is the explanation I was hoping to see posted, very convincing. Thank you!
FYI - The machinists are telling me we will have the next batch of 50 ready Monday, April 4th. You can either contact me directly at admin "at" hydratechbraking.com (providing your shipping address so that I can calculate UPS ground shipping costs) and I can send you a PayPal invoice (which can be paid by credit card even if you aren't a PayPal member). This is a little bit of a slower way to process, as I have to generate an invoice and send it back to you (some back and forth involved), OR you can just buy it quick and easy through this listing:
I have a Rocket Racing block coming in, so we will be developing one for this design, and also have a 403 here now too so that we can design the specific plate needed for this engine (both the Rocket block and the 403 have different oil gallery locations, which require a redesign of these plates to specifically accommodate).
Works very very well on standard hydraulic flat tappet cam installations too
Question from Koda: "Would you recommend these for aftermarket flat tappet cams as well?"
This cam thrust plate was originally designed by GM specifically for the changeover to roller cams in the late '85 Olds V8 engines. It is mandatory for a roller cam installation. The flat tappet cams all have a mild slant to the cam lobes to induce lifter rotation. This, combined with the oil pump gear also wanting to pull the cam rearward in its operations, always pulled the camshaft rearward considerably. This made forward movement of the cam rather rare. BUT switching over to a roller cam provides dead even cam lobes, so the only thing pulling the camshaft rearward when roller cam equipped is the oil pump drive gear actions.
Summary? YES - Works very well on standard hydraulic flat tappet camshafts too.
Thank you kindly -
Paul
RUNNING ONE OF THESE CAM THRUST PLATES ON A STANDARD HYDRAULIC CAM INSTALLATION:
With some local Olds guys I used to run with back in Detroit, their timing light readings would always bounce around, having them think it was distributor related. Anytime one of them tore down an engine and installed one of these cam thrust plates per my advice, the timing light readings were nice and stable afterwards. This made them run smoother, and eliminated a strange resonant oil pump drive noise that could be heard with a keen ear in a quieter car at certain lower RPM’s (strange Olds engine idiosyncrasy) (cam waking around back and forth while running).
So the benefits of running one of these plates on a hydraulic flat tappet (old school non roller) cam is still perfect cam control (but without counting on a so / so thrust button bolt to do it). Perfect cam control helps to minimize cam lobe wear, timing chain, and oil pump drive gear wear. Keeping the cam controlled this precisely also helps make them run smoother (reference back to the statement if timing light readings bouncing around all over the place before installation of one of these cam thrust plates). While rare, I pulled a mechanical fuel pump out of a 350 years ago, wondering why in the world I was hearing weird noises coming from it, seeing weird wear marks on the side of the actuating arm. I put a fresh pump back in it, then whipped out my mechanics stethoscope to listen to the area. At certain RPM's, I was hearing this nasty noise of intermittent mechanical rubbing I had never heard before. I pulled the fuel pump back out, and there where the same strange wear witness marks on the fuel pump arm. I talked to the customer about this, and he said that he had installed a roller timing chain in about 6 months ago, and was hearing this weird noise ever since. I asked him if he would rather slot the fuel pump mounting holes or tear the front cover back off to make sure the cam sprocket wasn't coming loose. He sheepishly admitted that he may not have torqued the cam sprocket bolt down all the way, and asked if I would tear back into it to check. I really don't like doing this, wrestling the timing covers back out of an Olds isn't fun. Anyway... the cam bolt was found to be torqued right down on the money. I did take a small pry bar and found that the cam would move towards the front of the engine rather easily. I showed the customer, and he was puzzled that it would do that. So his fancy double roller timing chain was occasionally hitting the fuel pump arm. I showed him GM PART# 22527023 which was still available at the time. He was a bit skeptical at first. But this was a genuine GM part, he just didn't believe it would fit his older 350. I ordered in the part, the customer stopped in once I had it installed, showing him how his cam sprocket could no longer move - he was surprised. I got the vehicle back together for him, threw him the keys the next day, and had him report back a week later. Besides no more occasional weird noise (from the double roller chain hitting the fuel pump arm), he said the car ran smoother and better all the way around - even gave me a $50 tip for taking such good care of him!
Summary? Mandatory on a roller cam, but still highly recommended on a conventional hydraulic flat tappet cam. I won't build an Olds without it.
Last edited by Clark455; March 31st, 2022 at 11:38 PM.
This cam thrust plate was originally designed by GM specifically for the changeover to roller cams in the late '85 Olds V8 engines.
I keep seeing you use the term "late '85" roller changeover. It may be better to just drop the word "late" using this description. It is already a confusion point for some.
It's a minor point, but roller Y engines showed up right out of the gate in 1985 model year. Swirl port heads and roller lifters on the 307 were actually a selling point in the 1985 Oldsmobile Dealership product/order information guide book dated July 23, 1984. Only the VIN 9 engine in the 1985 442 used the 84 H/O carryover style flat tappet cam 307 (even used an 84 H/O carb casting with a restamped year code during production) with 5A heads/A4 intake for their 3,000 unit run. 86-90 307s were all roller cams regardless of use.
Of course, there's always going to be someone out there that claims they got a factory-installed flat tappet Vin Y engine in their 85 car somewhere and all I can say about that is, you may be the only one, and consider yourself lucky. That wasn't supposed to happen.
That said, the new plate is great in that the unit is much nicer than the factory piece, heavier, stronger, better.
Machinists came in just a bit sooner than expected, but with a shorter run
These camshaft thrust plates are now back in stock once again. The machinists came in sooner than expected, but it turns out that the last of the run didn't spec out properly during the final quality control check, so 14 of them had to sadly get scrapped. Apparently one of the replaceable carbide cutters in this large (multi carbide) 10" surfacing cutter started coming loose, which tore up the last few on the CNC table - WAY beyond any repair. Once metal comes off, it doesn't go back on. I am glad it happened at the tail end of the run, with 36 coming in on proper spec. Don't worry, if it isn't perfect, it isn't going to get passed off as close enough. The 36 available are ISO 9000 shop certified, so rest easy that even though there was a problem in this run, it was literally the very last machining move before completion, and I consider myself fortunate that 36 out of 50 came through perfectly.
Not as a result of the machining problem, but due to rising material costs (Bronze is skyrocketing), I have had to raise the forum member cost up from $105 to $115. I have managed to keep the Ebay listing price unchanged, but the next run may require a price hike. (thanks to Mr. Putin trying to start WWIII).
60HO43 - the VIN Y versus VIN 9 is why I have been referring to the changeover the way that I have been. Being that details are details, I will agree with you on this and go back and edit a few posts...
Last edited by Clark455; April 1st, 2022 at 03:30 PM.
I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to thank Clark455 for the great piece of craftsmanship that was shipped to me today. I’ll be using it in my upcoming 455 build. Thank you for your hard work in developing these!
I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to thank Clark455 for the great piece of craftsmanship that was shipped to me today. I’ll be using it in my upcoming 455 build. Thank you for your hard work in developing these!
I've got one on the shelf waiting for a future build as well. I'm not a machinist, but this looks like a great product to me.
I am proud to be an important part of your builds. These cam thrust plates have been a part of every Olds I have built over the last 25 (or more?) years and was highly disappointed when GM inevitably discontinued them. For a while there, I was still able to occasionally source a N/O/S Genuine GM score every once in a while, but then they completely became "unobtanium". I knew I was destined to pick up where GM left off, as I damn well wasn't going to build another Olds without proper cam control. Going through all of the motions to redesign and reproduce them for my own use was almost where it ended due to costs, but pressure from some of my other Olds colleagues pushed these into public availability. I certainly don't make much on them but knowing that my fellow Olds brethren are benefitting from these is all I need to keep me going. Lynn Wellfringer of Mondello was very excited about these, buying a few to evaluate intending to market these, but I understand he passed away shortly thereafter. I sent one over to Dick Miller with only a lukewarm response. I had thought somebody out there was going to knock them off as many of my Hydratech designs have been, but it hasn't happened (yet). Meanwhile, I will keep producing these for you guys.
Again, thank you for trusting me with your builds!
March 12th, 2022, 10:21 AM
Custom Oldsmobile Camshaft Thrust Plates
Put a LOT of work into this design
Machinists came in just a bit sooner than expected, but with a shorter run
Thanks for trusting me with your builds!
