Paint job thread, '67 Delta 88

Old October 21st, 2012, 06:01 PM
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Paint job thread, '67 Delta 88

I started talking about this in Stumpy's thread about his '67 Delta 88 four-door.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post467338


But, as suggested by Jaybird, and as I figured as well, I'm starting this thread about my first ever-in-my-life attempt to paint a car. Prior to this, the only painting I've ever done to cars is fill scratches. This is the big time.


The car in question is my '67 Delta 88 convertible, acquired in June 2009 in the condition seen below. The interior is nice and needs nothing. The top is in excellent shape and works fine. In this New Mexico climate, I doubt I'll ever again put the top up.

But the car has always needed paint. From a close inspection, one can tell that it was repainted at least once in its history, apparently by applying the new coat of paint directly over the old. It has held up ok, but it is now well-faded.


Here's a nice picture of the car, with the top up, from a couple of years ago, before we relocated to the southwest. In a photo like this, the paint doesn't look too bad, but it is faded as I say, with scratches and things here and there and definitely in need of a repaint.






I decided to change the car's color to red as I never really liked the yellow, even though it is the original color. Heck, it's my car, it will never be a 1000-point show winner, so who the hell cares, right?


Trim removed prior to sanding:









Here it is sanded but prior to application of primer.






No, I did not sand it down to bare metal everywhere. It didn't seem necessary. I sanded it evenly everywhere, and where the paint came up on its own, so be it. I was interested in getting it smoothed and even, and I figure that the original paint on top of the original primer is well-adhered to the body, so why not leave that good system in place wherever it wants to.


Here it is after two coats of primer.







In the other thread, I mentioned that the primer can says "non-sanding primer."

Here's more on this taken directly from the manufacturer's website:

Non sanding formula, allows for straight application of car paint afterwards, dramatically cutting prep time.
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Old October 21st, 2012, 06:25 PM
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Jaunty! I'll be keeping an eye on this one for reasons that I happen to dig your car! The non - sanding primer basically means that it is sealer. Meant to be sprayed on, flashed off, then top coated! If you are planning on priming certain spots for reasons of achieving build, then block sanding to "straighten" the area, get yourself some primer surfacer. The sealer you have can be used when you are ready to paint. If you are looking to just spray and go, then what you have will be fine! Good luck!
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Old October 21st, 2012, 06:50 PM
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Keep The Pictures Coming!

Hey jaunty75: Great pictures. Repainting is a big-time restoration. I know that, as soon as you get involved with repainting, more things crop up!

I must have missed this information... Where did your car come from originally?

I love your tan interior! Please show us more before pictures!

Thanks!

Last edited by Jaybird; October 21st, 2012 at 06:52 PM.
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Old October 21st, 2012, 08:26 PM
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Erik,

Thank you for your interest. No, there are no low spots, dents, or anything like that on the car that I am attempting to raise back to body level, which is what I assume you mean by "achieving build." The only reason to sand would be to smooth the primered surface.

If I run my fingers over it, it's pretty smooth, but it isn't as smooth as the body was before I sprayed it on. I'm wondering if that's the way it should be, and the top coat will smooth that out, or I should sand to smooth it first. I assume I will want to sand the final painted surface before putting the clear coat on regardless. Again, that's what the instructions on the can of clear coat say. Wet sand with 400 grit paper first.
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Old October 21st, 2012, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
I must have missed this information... Where did your car come from originally?

I love your tan interior! Please show us more before pictures!
Unlike my '73 Custom Cruiser, which I bought from the family who were present at its birth, I don't know all that much of the history of my '67. I bought it in 2009 in Zanesville, Ohio through a craigslist ad from an elderly fellow (he was 78 at the time) who had bought it himself only two years earlier from someone in Mt. Vernon, Ohio.

I plugged the car's VIN into a search thing the Ohio DMV website has that will give you the titling history of the car if it was ever titled in Ohio.

https://ext.dps.state.oh.us/BMVOnlin...tleSearch.aspx

When I got the car, it had about 129,000 miles on it. The title search revealed that it was first titled in Ohio on June 4, 1985, and it had 125,000 miles on it at that time. So, interestingly, over the 24-year period 1985 to 2009, only 4,000 miles were put on the car.

The other thing the title search shows is that, counting the person who titled it in 1985 as owner number 1, I am the 7th owner of the car since then. Interestingly, owner #3 along the way was a bank which owned it from December 2001 to June 2002.

I do not know anything about the car's history prior to 1985, but I assume it was originally sold in another state and spent the first 18 years of its existence outside Ohio.


I have more photos of it, including shots of the interior, taken in April of last year, in a Picasa album. You can see them here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1079454...eat=directlink
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Old October 24th, 2012, 12:33 PM
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We're not in Kansas any more

It's red. Here we are about 10 minutes after spraying on two coats of paint.




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Old October 24th, 2012, 06:31 PM
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Wow, you are moving right along! Can't wait to see clear on her!
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Old October 24th, 2012, 07:48 PM
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Thanks. It needs to fully dry for a couple of days, then more sanding, and then the clear coat.
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Old October 24th, 2012, 07:55 PM
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Wow the body on that car is in good shape

cant wait to see it after the clear looks like it scoming along well so far !!!
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Old October 24th, 2012, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RetroRanger View Post
Wow the body on that car is in good shape
This is really an interesting point. The body on this car is pretty much flawless. Working so closely to it over the last week or so has really brought this home, even though I've had the car for more than three years now. There is not a single scratch, nick, dent, parking lot ding, or whatever on it. Pretty amazing for a 45 year old car with 130,000+ miles on it. It needed absolutely nothing other than to be sanded and so forth prior to painting. I only hope that my admittedly very amateur painting skills can do it justice!
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Old October 25th, 2012, 05:10 AM
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What type of paint did you use? It looks like lacquer but I just wanted to to clarify. You don't want to sand that color and apply clear especially over 400 grit sanding. You'll see a sanded surface through the clear. Let me know what paints you are using as well as they type of clear and I'll give you a few pointers.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 06:36 AM
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Not sure if I read the can right, but is the color acrylic urethane ? If so, this would be single stage. Did it take a hardner/activator? It can be cleared after sanding, but you may want to apply one more coat after sanding, flash it off, then clear. Post a pic of the clear Jaunty. You want to make sure you have enough mils to sand and polish. The paint you used, can also be sanded and polished, without clear. But, being you live in NM, clear will give you the UV protection you need.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 06:40 AM
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Ok, I just read the other thread, and you are using enamel...did you add a catalyst? If not, then clear is a must.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 08:13 AM
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The paint and clear coat are acrylic enamel. For the paint, I followed the manufacturer's recommendation and added both reducer and hardener, both made by the same manufacturer, in the proportions stated. I plan to do the same thing for the clear as the instructions on that can are the same.

The instructions on both cans say to prepare the surface by sanding with 400 grit paper, so that's why I was planning to do that before applying the clear.


ent72olds, I do agree with you that I might want to put another coat of paint after sanding before putting on the clear to build up the thickness. Or maybe I don't need to sand it first and just put the third coat on directly and then sand before clearcoating. The instructions say that, if I want to put a third coat on, to do so within 48 hours. No mention of needing to sand first. My two coats of paint used a little less than 1/2 the can, so I have plenty left (and what else am I going to do with it, paint the lawn mower?)


I do have one dumb question. What do you mean by the phrase "flash it off?" You mean let it dry, right?



If you want to see exactly what I'm using, here's the paint kit:

http://www.paintforcars.com/kits_viperred.html




and here's the clear:

http://www.paintforcars.com/clearcoat_aecc.html


I'm using hardener and reducer in the clear as well.



One thing the paint manufacturer says is that this paint does not require a clear coat. But as the paint sits on the car right now, it looks like it does in those photos above. It has a matte finish. I presume that something needs to be done (sanding, polishing, buffing, something) to smooth it out and bring out a nice mirror finish regardless of whether or not I'm putting a clear coat on. I'm only putting the clearcoat on because it's not much more money or effort, and it it should make the finish look even better while providing additional durability.

It also does provide more protection against UV as you state, but that wasn't my main motivation as the car spends 95% of its time in a garage.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 09:35 AM
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Also, I've read that sanding of the paint should be done not with 400 grit paper but rather with 1200 or finer grit. The same source says to sand the clear coat with 1500 grit.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts and experiences on this.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 04:05 PM
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Jaunty, the term "flash off" refers to the amount of time it take for each coat of color, clear, sealer or primer(whatever product you may be spraying) to "eggshell" between coats. Depending on temp and humidity, could be anywhere from 10 mins to a half hour. As far as the appearance of your paint job, luckily it is a solid color. What I would do next is to wet sand it lightly with 1000grit paper (this process will help to give a more even texture, and also "de-nib" for dirt in paint).Apply one more even coat of color, "flash off" for half hour, then apply clear coat with appropriate flash in between coats. You'd probably want to apply three coats, as the product you are using probably doesn't have a high solid content. This will also allow you to do a better job of wet sanding and polishing the clear, after it has cured for a couple of days. Only thing I would like to stress, besides wearing the appropriate protection for your safety, is to apply the clear evenly. It looks as though the color was not done that way, but as I stated, being it is a solid color, will be very forgiving. Watch a YouTube video or two, and that will give you an idea. Keep up the good work! After reading about your products, make sure you use the clear with the hardner. If you don't have it, get it. Will be a much better result, as well as more durable.

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Old October 25th, 2012, 04:12 PM
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Thank you! A couple of quick questions/comments.

1. You're saying that I should wait only about 1/2 hour between applying the final coat of color and applying the first coat of clear? No drying and sanding in between?

2. I agree the paint job doesn't look totally even in application of the color layers. However, those photos were taken literally 10 minutes after I put the paint gun down, and it was still quite wet. Things have "evened up" a bit in appearance in the time since then. But I will be careful.


Thanks again.


P.S. I do wear goggles, a respirator, and ear coverings when working.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 04:26 PM
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Should be no need to, as long as the clear is taking a hardner. The only reason to sand would be for dirt, or for adhesion. After sanding and cleaning and drying the car down, tack rag it very well. Spray the final coat of color, wait a half hour, then proceed to clear. Also, make sure before you wet sand what you have there, put some plastic down on the floor, as that color will definitely stain your floor! Remember, the more even you put the clear on, the less sanding you will have to do later. And, just to clarify, the reason you would not need to sand before clear would be if you we're to apply within that 48 hr window you mentioned. After 48 hrs, the chemical cross-linking has completed, and you would not be able to achieve a chemical bond between the 2 products. At that point, the sanding would be your only choice, and that would be a mechanical bond. A chemical bond is much stronger than a mechanical bond! So applying that final coat of color would give you a better link between the color and clear! Hopefully, I didn't confuse you too much.....

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Old October 25th, 2012, 04:47 PM
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My father-in-law always test paint between coats by touching the masking tape near the body. If no paint sticks to your finger it is ready for the next coat.

As soon as I post this I'll be posting a picture of a '53 GMC that he built a year or two ago with the title, "Opinion on color scheme".
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Old October 25th, 2012, 04:52 PM
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Erik, thank you on all counts.

Yes, as the directions call for, the clear will have a hardener and a reducer mixed in.


Delmont 88, thanks for the tip! Can't wait to see that photo.
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Old October 27th, 2012, 07:22 PM
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Jaunty, any updates?
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Old October 27th, 2012, 08:07 PM
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Yes! I didn't order enough reducer, so I've ordered it from the same supplier to keep everything kosher. Now I have to wait for it to arrive, which probably won't be until Thursday or Friday of next week. So things are on hold until then!
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Old November 6th, 2012, 04:37 AM
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Just got the thread Jaunty75, and your car is lookng fine. Can hardly wait to see the clear go on, she's gonna look great.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 06:52 AM
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Thanks. I'm still waiting on the reducer I ordered. The seller is in New Jersey, and I've not heard from them since the order was placed the weekend before the hurricane hit. Two phone calls have gone straight to answering machine. No mention of any delays or anything on their website, which never stopped working throughout the storm. Not sure how long I'll have to wait. If it's much longer, I'll look to get some from another source. Hate to waste the money, though.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ent72olds View Post
Jaunty, any updates?
What he said
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Old November 29th, 2012, 08:16 AM
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X2 on what he said ^^^
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Old December 1st, 2012, 09:40 PM
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Thanks for the interest, and, no, not yet. As I said earlier, I had to order some additional materials, and the day after I placed the order, hurricane
Sandy hit. The company is in New Jersey, and it was several weeks before they could get back in operation and send it to me. When it finally did arrive, it was shortly before Thanksgiving. We traveled the week of the holiday, and I am traveling this week and will be home tomorrow.

So, in short, life has happened to interfere with the process. But I should get back to it shortly.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 05:28 AM
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Any updates yet? I hope the reducer or paint didn't get spilled causing you to go back to the supplier who still may be trying to get back to normal operations. You know, with such a big red vehicle, Santa may have had some use for this. You still have a few days to get it completed and ready.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 09:01 AM
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It's painted, but it's not buffed and washed, so it's not ready to be "shown" yet. I also need to put the moldings back on. I've run into a small issue getting some new clips, or at least some that will work, to replace some that were missing and/or broken when I removed the trim.

I actually started a thread on this a few days ago, but no one has yet come forward with anything. I'll likely end up figuring out a way to make something work.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-three-me.html
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Old December 20th, 2012, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jaunty75 View Post
It's painted, but it's not buffed and washed, so it's not ready to be "shown" yet. I also need to put the moldings back on. I've run into a small issue getting some new clips, or at least some that will work, to replace some that were missing and/or broken when I removed the trim.

I actually started a thread on this a few days ago, but no one has yet come forward with anything. I'll likely end up figuring out a way to make something work.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-three-me.html
I was hoping to see the photos as you made progress with the various stages. It would also have been interesting for others to see who may be contemplating doing their first paint job. Did you take any photos after the final color was sprayed and then after applying the clear? If so can you post a few? Did you wet sand between the color and clear and if so, what grit paper did you use?
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Old December 20th, 2012, 01:48 PM
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I didn't realize that enamel needed a clear finish over top of it. Oh well, live and learn. I guess the processes must have changed over the years? I had my first 72 resprayed with enamel and the shop always said not to wash it for awhile because the paint was still soft and needed to cure. Having said that, I was surprised they let me drive it home in the rain. I hosed it down outside the garage and chamoised it dry inside. Left it there for a week while I was away in Dayton OH on business. When I came back it didn't even really need polishing - it shone brilliantly in the sun and was mirror smooth. I waited for a good 2 months before polishing it. Back then it was all by hand and took awhile, not like the power polish they do in 30 minutes now.

Would love to see how your car turned out even without the trim on it.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 03:55 PM
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I appreciate the interest and will get some photos up as soon as I can. It's just that the car is in the garage with trim parts and new rubber pieces I've ordered but not yet installed piled on top of it and leaning against it. As soon as I can clear things out and get it outside, I'll post some.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 04:54 AM
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There's no more time for us to wait to see pictures......the world is supposed to come to an end today!!! And I know I would definitely go a lot easier if the world did end knowing I was able to see the completed work....even if it has a lot of things piled up on top of that new paint. We're interested in seeing the paint, not the moldings. I'd also like your feedback on the spraying techniques etc so we know what challenges you faced on your first full paint job. That should be good info for others so they can decide if they want to tackle a job like this or maybe just let a body shop do it instead.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 69442C View Post
the world is supposed to come to an end today!!! And I know I would definitely go a lot easier if the world did end knowing I was able to see the completed work....even if it has a lot of things piled up on top of that new paint.
Man, I didn't know the fate of the world hinged on this! I do note, however, that it's December 21, and I'm still here typing on my computer keyboard. Hmmmm.

Later today I'll get some stuff and a car moved so I can get some photos.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 09:09 AM
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OK, here is it as of doomsday, December 21, 2012. That white stuff on the car is the residue of the buffing compound that I have yet to wash off. You can see that I have the trim around the rear wheel on, but I'm waiting on the front wheel and trim across the bottom until I can come up with some clips that I'm currently looking for. I of course have the rear bumper and trunk lid trim back on. I did not remove the front bumper.




You can, of course, see its younger, bigger brother in the space behind it. Nothing like a three-car garage to keep everyone, including my wife, whose car goes in the empty space in the foreground, warm and cozy. I, of course, park my daily driver pickup truck outside. Ah, the sacrifices we make.


As far as what have I learned being an amateur attempting to paint a car for the first time? Do like the book says. The one thing I would do differently is get a larger air compressor for the paint gun. I tried to get by with one that was minimally acceptable as far as air flow rate at the required pressure, and it was constantly stopping to recharge the tank. That made the process go slowly, and the quality of the job as far as maintaining a wet edge and all of that was probably not as good as it could have been.

I did not wet sand between the final paint coat and the first of the clear coats. I just let the paint coats flash off between applications and then let the final coat flash off before putting on the clear coats.

I am looking forward to the time, which I hope is soon, that I get that trim back on one way or another, get it out, and get it washed. I have a metric ton of new weatherstripping (i.e., around the doors, along the front edge of the top where it meets the windshield, and the trunklid) to put back on as well.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 11:05 AM
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Hmmm, naw. Change it to green...........

I think I'm going to try my hand at painting next year. I have a bumper cover on my Sonata that needs some work. Same thing as you, I have to take a lot of parts off before I do the work. Big difference is most of them are plastic and replacement parts are easy to come by for the fasteners.

I have the right size compressor already (60 gal), with in line regulator and water trap/filter. Over the years I've become fairly decent with the skills to sand/block and spray primer. Only difference will be I'm going BC/CC so I'll have to practice spraying. Have to check on what kind of paint gun to use for best results. I have some sheet metal in the shed I can practice my technique on so I don't screw up the paint on the cover. I don't mind practicing a lot; every bit of it goes into a learning curve and better prepares me and boosts confidence of doing a good job. Gold is not that friendly a color to match up I think. Not cheap up here either. Close to $200.00/pint for what I need. Clear is relatively cheap.

What kind of gloss factor did you get with the clear overlay and buffing? Maybe a profile shot would show that. Was it for protection against the UV out there in NM?
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Old December 21st, 2012, 11:56 AM
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That is one big ***** to paint!! I like the red, I have done a couple of paint jobs, always with Lacquer though, being a relative neophyte take my opinions with several grains of salt did you try to adjust the paint flow? I am unsure if it is the picture if on the trunk lid it's a reflection or perhaps the flow could have been increased so it wasn't sprayed so dry? it seems from the picture it is either reflections, thin paint coverage of haze in the clear? was it humid when you sprayed?

I have never shot hardened enamel or bc/cc but I am told that the new paints are the only way nowadays , and there is no way for me to spray water based in the garage.

I admire your tenacity on such a big project, I have no idea how you would get around a car that big to spray it and keep it wet enough to flow together? that is one thing I loved about lacquer, especially metallic, you could start to add clear to the final colour coats, and it would really even out the metallics, and then a final few coats of clear making sure there was enough Paint flow, to match the air pressure.

looking forward to seeing her rubbed out
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Old December 21st, 2012, 12:16 PM
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To answer some of the questions:

It didn't end up very glossy, yet, but, as noted, there is still some rubbing to do. I didn't worry about UV as the car is parked in garage except when being driven, so it spends no significant time just sitting in the sun.

I do think paint flow rate was an issue, and that was likely due to the size of the compressor. If I had it to do over again, I would rent a bigger one than try to get by with the one I had.

I didn't have any trouble getting around the car as because I have the three car garage, I could get the other cars out and park this one sideways. I have photos of this earlier in this thread. It would have been difficult, if not impossible, to try to do this with a car this size in a two-car garage.

I will post more photos as things start looking prettier.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 04:03 PM
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Thanks for the photo. The spraying equipment, as you found, is important because it takes a lot of air volume to spray a car. Even more so with the better HVLP spray guns. If you run out of air, the spray pattern is bad and the paint may not atomize like it should. Even with the correct equipment, it still takes some practice to get the correct "feel" for applying the paint. If it goes on a little too dry, it will be a little rougher and may not have the best gloss. Put it on too heavy and it's running all over the place.

Have you tried to wet sand it? If you think you have enough clear on it, take a small area and sand it first with 1500 and then step up to 2000. Use a small rubber block to wipe across the area you are sanding to wipe off the water and to see what you have. If you see a lot of small marks that were not sanded, then more sanding is needed. Keep sanding with the 1500 until almost all the little shiny marks are gone and then go over it with the 2000. Then buff that area and see how it looks. Keep in mind that you will need to have at least 3-4 good coats of clear on it to sand like this. Otherwise you could end up going through the clear into the red and then you'll need to sand and paint that panel again.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 04:13 PM
  #40  
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No, I have not wet-sanded the top coat. I did put more than one coating of clear. Your suggestions are very helpful. Thank you.
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