borgerding

Hi again,

I've finally restored my 63 Cutlass to about 95%. I recently rebuilt the carb, and although it was running/driving really well, I decided to replace the plug wires as they were dry and cracked.
This is where the trouble began;

I began swapping out the wires one by one, I think I exchanged all but 3 wires, then got confused.
When I opened up the factory service manual for help, I was even more confused, as the wire terminations shown in the manual didn't seem to jive with what I had already installed.

I've replaced wire sets plenty of times, and could swear that I had attached those initial wires correctly. This was/is very troubling.

Although my gut didn't agree, I figured that I must have lost my concentration somewhere along the line, so I removed my initial connections, and rewired per the manual, (using the cylinder numbering illustration, distributor image, etc).

Note: (To make things even worse, while rewiring per the manual, I unfortunately forgot where I initially had them located).

To try making a long story short;
After wiring per the manual, I tried to start the car, but it wont fire. It turns over normally, but I only get a few "pops", (something's obviously wrong).

So now I'm second guessing myself in every way.

The car was running great right before all of this started.

Attempting to resolve this issue;
I've tried the old wire set, replaced the coil/condenser, replaced plugs/cap/rotor, checked connections at the points, checked firing order (using a compression tester), tested spark (its good), tested fuel pump (its good), checked for loose wires, etc.

A few things I've noticed;
Per the attached images, you'll notice that, although my distributor is positioned per the manuals instructions, the position of my rotor at #1 tdc, (w/timing marks lined up/ on compression stroke), doesn't match the image in the manual. (The book shows the rotor, at #1 tdc, pointed towards the front of the engine, mine is pointed more towards the left/ drivers side).
Thinking that my timing was way off, I rotated the distributor approx. 15/25/35/45/55 degrees ccw. It did fire up briefly, but I turned it right off as it sounded terrible, (like it was running on 4 cylinders)?

It sounds like my timing is way off. Or Ive got wires mixed up?
Did my timing chain jump?

It's an unbelievable thought, but could the firing order on my engine somehow be different than what the book says?

I hope its not too much to ask, but to prove I'm not crazy, could someone post an image of their 61-63 Cutlass 215 distributor cap with the wires numbered?

(By the way, the numbers match on this car. The engine should be original).

I hope this isn't all too confusing, but any insight would be greatly appreciated!
Please check out all attached images for clarification.
(I'll probably have an additional post for the remaining images).

Thanks,

borgerding

Additional images.

oldcutlass

What probably happened is that you have swapped a few wires, very common. Pull the number 1 spark plug, place your finger over the hole, and rotate the engine until you feel air pushing out. Then move the engine to where the timing marks line up. The rotor will be pointing to the #1 position on the cap. Connect your #1 spark plug wire there.





Once you have established the #1 position you can wire it from as per above. Then you are going to have to retime your engine because you had messed it up previously.

borgerding

Thanks for the input.
As it turns out, the previous owner had apparently installed the distributor at an angle completely different from specs. This is what threw me off when I was looking at the manual, as the #1 wire was not in the right spot.
I found tdc, and pull out/rotated distributor/rotor so they were in the correct position, (rotor pointing to #1 cyl on distributor cap. Everything now matches the location illustrated in the book. I reset the timing and it now runs ok. (I'm waiting for a dwell meter I ordered to come in so I can properly fine tune the points/timing.)
Thanks again.

oldcutlass

Glad you got it.

sam196370

I had the same problem last summer when trying to replace my wires - very frustrating and I ended up getting it right with the trial/error strategy. BTW; where did you get your plug wires? I'm looking for a set where I don't have to cut the wires and crimp the ends which go in the cap; which is what I bought last summer and couldn't get the ends to crimp correctly so have old ones on now.

Pulled my distributor last night to replace gasket and forgot to note position of rotor so now I'm in a similar situation but this thread helps - thanks!

borgerding

Thanks Sam,
I know that OPGI has oem sized wires, but I actually ended up getting mine from Autozone. They had to order them, but was only a day turn around, and much cheaper.
Lengths arent perfect, but close enough.
Wire separators worked to tidy everything up.

Is your car a 63 Cutlass as well? If so, does it have power brakes?

I ask because i recently posted a question regarding Master Cylinder size in the "Brakes" section. Maybe you would have some insight?

Thanks

sam196370

Yes, '63 Cutlass my uncle bought new, no PB but I'm surprised how well the manual drums work.

So I'm having a b*tch of a time getting the distributor lined up properly, does the distributor turn twice for every one motor rotation? I had the timing mark exactly @ 0 (TDC) - which took a while since I was alone, but rotor is way off from #1 wire. I'm guessing it does since that is the only reason I can think of for why it won't fire but a confirmation would be great.

Thanks!

Octania

that's engine 101
Due to the cam sprocket being 2x as large as the crank sprocket, the crank turns twice per turn of the cam/distributor/oil pump

oldcutlass

When you have the crank set at TDC on the compression stroke, wherever the rotor is pointing is the #1 plug wire. Wire the distributor ccw from there. If you are not on the compression stroke the distributor will be 180 degrees out and it will fire on #6.

sam196370

Thanks, total brain fart on my end....