projectheaven

Hello all,

So I find a gentleman selling a beautiful pair of bucket seats locally and I race to buy them before anyone can get the chance before i do. He had them reupholstered last week so they're immaculate. I pull up and the guy has about 5 cars covered up. We start to talk and it turns out they're all Oldsmobile's ranging in year from 68-72. All convertibles.
He waits and saves the engine compartment last and I'm expecting a beautiful big block olds but instead I find a small compact ls2 stuffed in there. I said whoaaaaa! I didn't expect that and he had it detailed very well. I wanted to snap pictures so bad but I didn't want the guy thinking I was a weirdo on our first encounter.

My question is What do you guys think about swapping in a newer style motor like this guy has done. I know some of you would rather stay pure but what about the advantages like gas mileage, horsepower, and reliability?
He ended up taking me for a joyride in his 68 convertible and he had me nailed to the seat the whole ride. Those engines are something else.

Red_Hill

I think it is great, it is his ride!

I saw in your signature you have a GN. I had an 86 T-Type, pretty quick car- I miss that one.

MDchanic

I think you want to go here (hold onto your wallet...).

- Eric

jpc647

A rocket 350 will never do what an ls motor will.

UnkleMarc455

Those are great motors, I say do what will make YOU happy! Might spend more up front but thats a 100k until you tune-ups or changes. Look for Lq9, Ly6 or L76 they have the iron blocks and hold up to more power and are a lot cheaper than the aluminum.

64Rocket

A Olds Rocket motor was never meant to be like an LS motor.
Gene

jpc647

Unfortunately.

garys 68

If it's not a rare car, go for the best engine around. For me reliability, drivability, and fuel milage were important. Putting in a 5.3 LM7 was going to fit these criteria better than a 455. And cost was probably less than sourcing and rebuilding a 455.

greenslade

50 year old technology vs modern day.

Aceshigh

Exactly ^ ^
"The worlds's best cam combined with a poor set of heads will produce an engine that's a dog.
But bolt on a set of great heads even with a poor cam and that engine will still make great power."

- John Lingenfelter

As was previously stated, the modern small block engines are stronger, more efficient,
and net better HP gains from simple mods. A 50+ year engine design is not going to compete
against a modern era fuel injected LS engine in terms of efficient power. Heads are where the
power is made, and classic Olds heads just can't hold a candle to 14 degree heads designed for
NASCAR use. Guys are putting turbo's on these and driving them around with 600-1000hp as daily drivers.

L92 heads flow 320 cfm out of the box on a small block.
My #6 heads on my 1970 350 flowed roughly 180cfm.

I just sold my entire 1970 350 engine bay. Carb to pan, headers, trans, radiator, everything.
GREAT motor, just wasn't the end goal for me. Another Olds owner is very happy with it now.

I'm putting a 2008 GM LY6 6.0L with a 6 speed T-56 manual transmission behind it in my 1970
442 wannabe now. The muscle car era has been reborn, and the Gen III and IV engines from
GM can be bought fairly inexpensively in used condition out of GM trucks and put in our cars
alot easier then people realize.

Plus, putting an LS2 in knocks off ~150lbs off the front nose , plus add in an aluminum radiator
and it's even more weight off the front end. Throw in a Jeep 12 to 1 steering box , and get rid
of the 16 to 1 Olds steering box, and now you've got a car that can perform a hell of alot better
in corners as well.

If you watch on various pro-touring sites Pro-Touring and Lateral G, as well as LS1tech
You will see a ton of guys ripping out their BBC's, BBO's, BB Buicks, and even fuel injected setups......and going LSX.

It's not for everyone.......which is cool, the purists like the classic engines, that's for them.
Some get very bitter even talking about it. I have no idea why they get so upset with what OTHER people
do with THEIR OWN cars. But for those that have ridden in a classic powered by a hopped up LSX
.......know the difference is addicting.

tindrumstoo

im a big fan of the ls motor swaps. my dd is an 80 buick regal with a 5.3LS motor. it runs great!!!! i have even tossed the idea around in my head about putting one in my 67 olds ninety eight so i could put the original 455 on a stand and be able to rebuild it and still drive the car! but then i realized none of the gauges would work and getting the a/c working would be almost impossible... i'll probably just end up buying another 455 block and building it up in my spare time, still it would be cooler to have the ORIGINAL motor rebuilt and put back in the car.. ahh this has the gears turning in my head..

UnkleMarc455

Check Craigslsit in Phoenix Az, theres a Brand New LY6

a new production engine from gm ,at the dealership with a 3 year or 100,000 mile warranty whichever comes first.
from 2009-11 pickup 6.0 ly6 option. 352 hp @382 lb/ft torque.has variable valve timing.does not has cylinder deactivation.
only one in stock.
call dave at chapman chevrolet 480-752-1618.

PostingID: 2442930407

Redog

I would do it with a Bravada. I wouldn't do it but if it's not rAre, ok

BIGJERR

Sounds like a cheap easy chevy way to do things...........since Iam niether cheap or own a chvy its not for me.........some like the LS series engines.....a cheap turboed one is the way to go..........My 455 and some NOS will give you a hell of a run tho........Jerr

Oldsmaniac

This is something I dont understand. If you want a chevy buy one. If you want and Olds get one and keep it an Olds and not a Bastard car. Yes I know GM put Chebby engines in Olds and vice versa.... but here we are talkin about cars built before that insanity. If someone had some really nice Olds converts and popped the hood to see a chebby engine I would cringe and think man what idiot would build a turd like this. The same would go if a chebby had an olds or any other engine in it. Yep the new stuff runs great but who wants to even run a nice old car daily. All my nice rides (daily drivers) end up like crap between shopping lot dents, weather, tree branches, road hazards etc....I just can ever keep my daily driver nice as much as I try.... and I have been driving since 1972. It aint fun replacing sheetmetal, bumpers, moldinds, etc an the old cars. It gets expensive. My 2 cents.

BIGJERR

All I know is I BLEED OLDSMOBILE.........

it even says so right over
<<< There.........

f-85

If you have such a hard on for LS motors, just go buy a new truck, or camaro and be done with it. Leave the old Olds alone. Sell it and go buy a new Camaro SS

garys 68

I do!
No, I wouldn't tear apart a nice or complete car, but mine came with sheet metal and 4 tires.
My LS powered daily driver now............. and I love it........
DSCN0379.jpg

f-85

The Biggest part of what makes an Oldsmobile an Oldsmobile is the engine. Once you take that away its just a car!


If you guys are so worried about drivability, reliability, and gas milage go buy a honda! Sell your Olds!

Higgins

Show us the motor....

fdwheelman

I do... The Mustang normally does garage duty. The Delta does all the rest.

oldcutlass

This area is for non-oldspowered, and I personnally think there is a place for this as people have been doing this kind of engine swap since the dawn of automobile time!!! I can see you bashing if they placed their post in an area for all the purists.

My advice is if you don't like the idea of this type of swap, kindly skip this area!!!!

garys 68

Build thread:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-iii-swap.html

tindrumstoo

not my oldsmobile, but my daily driver buick regal:

Regal008.jpg
104_0004-1.jpg

you know if this swap was in my oldsmobile i bet i would drive it alot more.

better mpg's better reliability and its easier to find parts for and fix if something breaks. you guys can search for a year for whatever part you need, i'll go to autozone pick up what i need and get back on the road. going faster getting better mpg's and turning more heads making more people smile.

garys 68

tindrumstoo
I'm 47 yrs old, not some kid ricer....that said.....nice ride.
If you want to go all out, there are car judges that take off points for wrong battery, non-bias ply tires....I'm just waiting for wrong vintage air in the tires.....
Keeping the amazing lines of the Olds design (let's face it, they have distictive front ends and nice lines) on the road is a big part to me.
If you can keep one of these on the road for another decade or two, regardless of the powerplant, they just look GOOD.
And I prefer to have a daily driver with character and reliability, milage, ease of maintainence, etc...

tindrumstoo

i agree completely. i want to build the car for ME not what other people think i should do with the car. checking out your build page on the 442 clone and that corvette. very impressed. i plan on keeping my oldsmobile mostly original. that being said i have already completely re-done (some may say ruined) the suspension. but other than that i was to keep it stock. stock interior stock gauges (even keeping the stock radio) i may add a cd player eventually but it would be in a removable center console with the speakers hidden. i've tossed around the idea of putting an LS motor in but bottom line i've decided i want to rebuild the numbers matching motor and just clean up the engine bay a little to make it all look stock and clean. i stayed away from notching the frame when i bagged it and kept the stock inner fenders in it too, so other than the obvious low stance, it all looks like it did from the factory. my buick regal on the other hand i'd like to eventually turn into a complete build like your 442. i can appreciate the high level car shows where they take points off for every little thing, i enjoy looking at the time and money people put into their cars to compete in something like that, but i personally would never want something so detailed. it would just take all the fun out of it to me. i'm a car guy because i like to DRIVE the car. i would hate to have something so nice that actually driving it would take away from it's value. but i can appreciate it too in some ways, just not for me.

tindrumstoo

like "aceshigh" says: Make it what YOU want. Not the way others want it to be.

gearheads78

well said.....this area is the safe zone for non Olds stuff. I you don't like someone doing a swap stay out of this area.

read the sticky at the top of the non olds section

UnkleMarc455

All of us Love Oldsmobile, but if anyone wants to go with modern technology LS conversions then they should be free to it with their car and not catch any BS! Its a GM Corporate Motor, just happens to be in more chevy's, cadilac's and some pontiac's but started life in Buicks. I've stated this before that if Oldsmobile recreated the 442 it would definately have an LS. I thought it was a safe zone to post in NON OLDS POWERED, don't understand why people have to comment on things they don't like! Why waste your time reading all the post if you can't stand it! Everyone should just be happy with THEIR own cars and their beliefs on how it should be built.

67 Cutlass Freak

To each, his own. More power to ya if you can make this swap work for you. It frustrates me when people get all hung up on engine manufacturer between lines. I don't think your a$$ can tell what kind of powerplant is under the hood. You sure can't see that engine from the drivers seat either. It used to bother me a lot when people would stuff a 350 Chevy into an old '50 Merc, or old school '30s T bucket, but people did it because it was cheap and easy. I don't think the LS swap is all that cheap or easy. Our '69 Olds 455 4BBL came with 390 HP and 500 FT/LBs of torque. I don't think the current LS platform is there yet unless your talking Corvette or Cadilac. You could always buck up and do a fuel injected Olds to get better mileage and reliability. Not too far in the future everyone will have an electric car and gas will be $25 per gallon, so do whatever makes you happy. Lets see who gets the most smiles per gallon. I say live large for today, because a close friend of mine died yesterday, at the age of 68, from a ruptured colon. God bless Donna O'boyle. Sorry to bring you all down, but we all need to see the big picture sometimes. If I were to die tomorow who's gonna be drivin' my Olds?

garys 68

67 Cutlass Freak.
Excellent points. I enjoyed every minute of building it, and now enjoy every minute of driving it. And I do that a lot.
"Live large for today".....couldn't agree more......

ralsy

Life is to short to be worrying what other people are doing or not doing. Do what you think is right and what makes you happy as long as you don't negatively affect other people. Like that song went " be happy don't worry".

tindrumstoo

when i open my door i see a big GM emblem, so i don't think it would be too bad if i had a LS motor under the hood, now if i had a ford motor i would hope people would bash me and have me banned from the forums!

Aceshigh

It can be
Gary said he was into his for just $2200 if I remember correctly.
300+ hp with far greater heads that flow FAR better and fuel injection.
Cam swaps in this motor will net far more HP then classic headed engines.

He did all the wiring himself I believe, and the complete install.
He didn't get all fancy, and followed many of the stickies on budget upgrades.
I forget what trans he put in.....but a modern OD or double OD trans has to be factored in.

Now MINE on the other hand......I'm not capable of doing something in a budget like that.
Mine is going to cost 2-3x that easily. I have issues just buying stuff....lol

Gary's swap is excellent!!!! Mine's half way done. Just installed my LS7 clutch and flywheel.
2011Clutchpics9800x600.jpg

There's always going to be people like this in life. Just ignore them.

Redog

The way I look at it:

Is the LS one hell of a motor, Yes, nobody can really say that an LSx or the LQ's (?) in the GM trucks are great motors. Lots of HP, lots of Torque, and since 2007 a Chevy or GMC 1500 series truck can tow around 10,000 lbs with the proper transmission and a 5.3 liter (325) engine (I think that's the smallest that can tow that much, could be a 6.0) and look at the LS7 in the Corvette.

Now, is an Olds motor one hell of a motor right out of the factory? Yes. Is it true that an Olds motor is one hell of a motor by today's standards? Could be.

Look at the older Olds motors. From say the mid 60's. Did you ever see any of those torque numbers that they put down? The 330 I have in my mom's garage has 360 ft/lbs of torque and 320 hp. I know that V6 engines today are putting down 300 to 310 in stock form, but still 300 horse is nothing to laugh at. It's still a lot of power.

Now, you can work an LS or a SBC to put down some impressive numbers. Guess what, you can work an Olds motor to put down some impressive numbers too. Anything you can do to a Chevy, you can do to an Olds.

I've heard a lot of people say "You can't find aftermarket parts or performance parts for an Olds" And I say to those people "You just don't know where to look" They think I'm being a wise ***, but it's true. You can order a hot cam, intake, etc etc etc RIGHT FROM SUMMIT RACING OR JEGS!!! You don't have to go to any speical place to order this stuff. It's even in their catalogs they send home.

Now if a Chevy guy says "Building an Olds motor is expenisve" I'll agree. That is true.

Look, I'm only 34. I'm at the right age to have nothing but "LS swap" on my mind for any GM car on the road, but I don't. I also own an Alero with a 60* V6 engine in it. Yes that is a Chevy motor, but I didn't want the 4 cyl when I bought my car. Yes the 4 cyl was an Olds design motor and I would have gotten the one with the 5 speed Getrag tranny, which is the rarest Aleros out there. However by 2000, things were much different.

My 330 will be going into an Oldsmobile. I said eariler that I would put an LS in a Bravada, but that 4.3 that they have, is also a Chevy design. Plus LS swap kits for S-10 type are around 800-1100 bucks and they inculde headers that wrap around the steering shaft and such. I did see a guy that swapped an Olds 350 into an 86 S-10 Blazer, but no details on how it was done, just some pics. It was a trail truck anyway.

IDC if somebody wants to drop an LS in their Olds. Just send me all the Olds parts, including the blocks

71 Cutlass

Here's my question...(by the way I have no problem with an LS swap if someone wants more power, reliability,etc). If I ever swapped out my 350 for an LS motor, how much of a pain is this action? Where do the A/C compressor and brackets connect, or do you have to get an entirely new system, same for alternator and many other parts,etc? Is this a total pain at a huge expense or is this a fairly simple swap that roughly costs the same as a typical rebuild, ie. $3500.00 or so.

garys 68

You'll toss that huge compressor and replace with a Sanden (Talk to Classic auto Air). I used a Kwik bracket to mount it high on the passenger side. You'lluse the LS alternator/bracket.
Biggest pain would be the wiring harness if you're not used to doing wiring.

Aceshigh

There's a dedicated 64-72 A-body LSX swap section on LS1tech.
Ton's of threads with trial and error, costs, combinations, etc.
This saves ALOT of time and $$$ wasted on trial and error for swaps.

The reality is, after that it depends on how much you can do yourself
mechanically to determine how much you can save in labor. What you
don't know , you learn and ask from the other guys who have done it.

You can do a swap for $3500 and have a much better drivetrain with
#1. better fuel efficiency,
#2. Easier start up,
#3. More docile street manners in the higher HP ranges.
#4. Cam swaps net you more HP gains because of the better heads.

MDchanic

You're comparing SAE GROSS horsepower to SAE NET horsepower.

They changed the measurement system after 1971 to make it more realistic.
Apples and oranges.

The old (gross) system used a stripped motor with no accessories running through what amounted to headers, while the new (net) system uses the whole motor, including manifolds, just the way it will sit in the car.
That 320 net hp is probably closer to 240 net. Just look at the hp dropoff from '71 to '72, with no meaningful changes to most of the engines during those years.

350 NET horsepower is a whole other thing than 350 GROSS horsepower.

- Eric

Aceshigh

^ VERY accurate points.