I disagree completely. An building an Oldsmobile motor just isn't practical. A 30 year old motor just won't do what a new one will. Oldsmobile is gone, and they don't make crate motors. Building a rocket 350 to do what an ls motor will do will be outrageous and limit drive-ability.

Some of us care about more than just the track. If I want to take my girlfriend out for ice cream or to a car show on a sunday and it's 60 or 70 miles away, I don't want to stop for gas 3x or plan around traffic because my ridiculously priced rebuilt motor can't idle for shi* in traffic without loading up.

I'm considering an LS swap myself. My everyday driver, a 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 puts out 336hp with a simple Cold air intake and CatBack Exhaust. $350 for a tune she'll be up around 375+. And I can drive it anywhere, has heated seats, leather, navigation, sunroof, all the amenities. How can I rationalize spending money on a 72 Cutlass, that is all around not as good a a v6 Hyundai? LS Motor for the win.

 

Those new Genesis Coupes are hella impressive. Hyundai has really come around these days.
My 66 year old Mother in Law is strongly contemplating a new 2011 Elantra.
I can't get over how much Hyundai has improved in looks, style, and reliability.
It's a great looking econo-box. That Genesis coupe is pretty tight when it's all macked out.

I'm glad to see there's many more like minded pro-touring Olds enthusiasts
I was starting to lose hope for this forum being all purists.

Now if the Mods could just Moderate the strays looking to stir up trouble out of here like
they moderate the LS fanatics threads from the other forums, we'd be all good.

Very nice Buick Regal. Looks like the Vortec motor fits right in there without ANY mods needed.
You saved some coin keeping the Vortec accessories and intake / injectors.
Now I know who to talk to if I ever consider this swap into an older Regal. \

You got all the points dead on. Parts availability is far more abundant and accessible.

 

I know that this is a touchy subject on here,but I would really like some info on a l -s engine and 700r4 to 52/98 swap. I dont need to know hp ratings and stuff just some nuts and bolts info on this swap. Also as I havent yet committed the cardinal sin (engine swap), Is there an autotrans beside a hydromatic that will bolt to the original 303.Also what later model olds engine and trans would best fit this car. thanks for any info you can give me

 

Are you asking about a 1952 Olds 98 Holiday coupe swap ???
In my opinion, that would be one VERY badass candidate for an LSX & OD trans swap.

This is an area you'd have to probably have to be the pioneer and learn the do's and don'ts yourself
because I think it's a pretty RARE selection. Realistically the hardest part you will encounter is the
mounting of the engine and trans to properly clear your linkages. If thats even an issue, you won't
know until you plop it in there and measure things out.

If you have fabrication skills, or are willing to pay someone it's very feasible.
If it's the same engine bay as a 57 Chevy , I'd suggest finding a forum dedicated to those guys
and ask them because I can guarantee you there's quite a few of them already in those.
http://rhcollectibles.com/showroom/1...t-Nomad?sold=0

 

MD MECHANIC - exactly the point I was going to make -
Some of these guys are too young to know this even happened, pre-pollution!

 

Your kidding right? You must not know Oldsmobiles well. Yeah im sure you could make more power with an LS motor. I would hope so only 30 years of tech between them. LOL But thats not what your arguing about. You are basically saying that you cant drive an Olds motor as a daily driver, they cant make power, and you cant get good milage out of them. Im sure a few people could argue against it.

You can make good power at a decent price with an Olds and get good gas milage too. Lots of options. They make EFI bolt on kits that will give you good gas milage. Modern gind cams, tons of aftermarket off the shelf parts. Lots of carb options and exhaust options. Lots of OD trns options.


What do you think people did in the 60s? Do you think they walked everywhere? And just parked the cars in the garage to only pull out at car shows and Ice cream? LOL No they drove the cars. Yep every day. I know it might sound nuts, but some were able to drive 200 miles + without stopping for gas. Must have been the lead gas that did it.

 

I would like to know REALLY "the truth" on what you guys spend doing one of these swaps. NO B.S. Out the door all done "daily driver" done car. Toatal price.

 

I am very curious about this too, hence, i have now subscribed to this thread.

-Tony

 

If you are a fabricator/junk yard scrounger $1000.00 or less on a 5.3 swap.
If you are a catalog buyer and check writer paying someone to do the work 7-8K not doing anything exotic would be pretty easy to spend. If you want to get stupid some of the crate motors can knock out 10K or more alone.

Its just like anything else . You can spend as much as you want.

I would say say the average swap is 4-5K turn key doing most of the work yourself.

I've got something on the back burner involving a gen 3 motor and an Olds that might open the eyes for many of what can be done. I might even bring F-85 over to the dark side it will be a while though as I have a lot on my plate. I am not ready to reveal what I have planned but I will say its uncharted territory for Gen3 stuff and Oldsmobiles

 

Boy I see this thread becomming bad real quick.

I wouldn't mind or be against doing an LS swap, but not in an Older Olds. Like I said eariler, give me a 96-01 Bravada and I'll gladly swap an LS into that, since it's simply easier to do than a 350 SBO. I mean why not. Too many people talk about LS swaps into S-10's. You rarly see that be done to a Jimmy or Bravada. Even though it's the SAME TRUCK people think it's stupid to swap an LS into one of those

If somebody wants to swap an LS or SBC into an Olds, go for it, but the car doesn't get my respect. Kinda like that 1985 442 I beat at the 2008 Olds class drag race, to win the day. You know, the one with the 355 SBC in it becasue there isn't any performance parts for an Olds motor. Not an LS, a SBC

 

If you swapped in a Telsa would it still be an Olds?
Has anyone ever mapped a 1970 Cutlass into 3D design software? That would be a good starting point on an LS swap.

 

I'd be more then happy to share that information with you.
If you want to know, PM me, and I'll show you.

You have a Classic Olds member here who just did a phenomenal budget build.
Mine WILL NOT be a budget build because I go crazy and buy anything and everything.

But I will have alot more involved that's not a bare bones swap.

If your father got a heart transplant is he no longer your father ??

According to the DMV , and the Insurance companies the car doesn't change manufacturing titles because an engine swap was done.
That would be pessimistic purist lore.

 

ace how big is that stick you got in the pot . So I could spend 5,000 on some d heads or put in a 500hp light weight lsx for the same

 

For the members who are truly interested you have to work around the negative Nancy's everywhere.

A little less then $5,000 for a 500hp LSx.
It can be done for ~$3,000 I'm sure.

 

Just to encourage everyone to remain civil out there. I mean, this IS the correct forum for the subject matter being discussed. Thanks all.

 

I like that crab - great graphic.
I must say even a purist must be interested in this. Afte rall, monogamy is only mandatory in marriage.
If considering this, if I understand correctly, there are a few engine options (more than listed):
LS2 6 litre
LY5 5.3 litre Vortec 5300 truck engine
LS7 7 litre
L92 6.2 litre Vortec 6200
LS9 6.2 litre truck engine
LS3 6.2 litre
L99 4.3 litre
Where could I go to see a general discussion of the pros and cons of each as a candidate for swapping.
Also, which modern automatic transmissions would be best to consider?

 

I had to fix a few of those for you. This is the GM hierarchy of Vortec engines (truck)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Vortec_engine
Go here, and you will get a better understanding of the differences and what vehicles they are found in.

LS Primer Part 1 Gen III Introduction and comparison
LS Primer Part Gen III and Gen IV comparison

www.ls1tech.com has a Conversions & Hybrids section.

Then they have a subsection "Sticky" for 68-72 A-bodies since it's quite a popular swap.
Here's a post I made in our High Tech Retrofits section on Nastyz28 showing the different accessory drives.
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showpo...5&postcount=65

Depends on your power output.
4L60e's are the modern 700R4's and are plentiful and cheap but not capable of living behind higher HP engines without mods.
4L80e's are the bulletproof TH400 successor found in trucks and heavy duty vehicles.

The newer 6 speed auto's 6L80e and 6L90e are just too damn big.
The manual options are T-56 (450lbs ft) and TR6060 (600lbs ft) however both can be upgraded to handle much more.

 

I've got my stack of recipts. Do you want the Classic Auto Air included, the interior, steering upgrade, etc....
Keep in mind, my car was a metal box on 4 tires, so the LS was certainly cheaper than sourcing and rebuilding a 455 with air, etc..
There is already a price list in my thread for the motor only.
And yep, it's my daily driver now.

 

Just on anything to do with putting the LS motor in. So yes A/C, motor mounts, crossmember, fuel (as in pump, lines, tank), electrical, exhaust, engine, any engine mods, trans, driveshaft, pulleys, brackets, radiator, shifter, gauges, sensors, computer, adaptors. Anything to do whith putting it in.

Also you said something about its cheaper then a rebuilt 455. So this LS motor you have is rebuilt then?

 

So you would do that to a H/O?

 

Im sure it would take alot of favors, borrowing, and a stock of parts on hand to get it done for a $1000


I bet that 4-5k is more the minimum. But thats on the cheap side. I poked through the couple build threads and it seems like alot more work, and money then they say.

Im sure if you called around some shops to ask what they would charge to install an LS it would be over 3k just for the labor.

 

Like I said that would be all junk yard parts , modifieing you own harness, fabbing mounts ect. Higher mile used 5.3's sell for $500-600.00 turn key.

 

The real truth ? Then it wouldnt be hot rodding .

 

FacePalmcompute.gif Exactly, Hot Rodding.

 

I try to stay out of these discussions, because I can see both arguments and because I have never made this switch, or driven one of these cars.

HOWEVER...
I think people are not all looking at this the same way, and that can lead to confusion.

First, on the availability of parts:
Total red herring. Parts are readily available at the local parts store, usually in stock, but sometimes with a one-day wait. This is an indisputable fact. Used parts and cores are all over the junkyards and available through online groups like this one.
Is there less of a selection of aftermarket "hot rod" performance parts than there is for some other brands? Yes.
Is the selection that IS out there wide enough to do the job? Yes.

Second, on reliability:
This really depends, and is part of the crux of the issue.
A bone-stock Olds motor is extremely reliable, and should go well over 150,000 miles with only a timing chain change around 100,000 miles (which is less work than a timing belt change on many new motors).
A modified Olds motor is another story, as it is with modified engines of any other make, and is highly dependent on the quality of the machine work, the care and correctness of the assembly, the choice and matching of parts, and the possible over-stressing of components that are called upon to do more than they were designed to do. Highly modified engines are not usually expected to be as reliable as stock motors, and that goes for LS motors as well.

Finally, on what you're really looking for:
If you are looking for reliability and enjoyable torque and power, with reasonable economy, then a stock-built Olds motor with a modern four-speed transmission will do the job just fine, and will be cheaper and easier than an LS swap.
If you are an LS fan and think an LS motor would be better in this case, you are on drugs, unless by "better" you mean "lots more expensive and complicated."

If you are looking for maximum power, race-style, then you can get quite a bit out of an Olds motor, provided you've got a large bank account. It will probably be at the expense of some reliability and drivability (I personally have enjoyed growling, rough, cammy engines in the past, but they're not for everybody), but you can get there.
For a similar amount of money, you can get a similar amount of power out of an LS motor, with more drivability, reliability, and fuel economy, but you may miss that screamin' sound, so this may not be for you.
If you really want to go b__s to the wall, you can probably get more power out of an LS motor than you can out of an Olds motor, but with that much power and that many modifications, one begins to wonder whether you wouldn't be better off with a frame that can handle it all, like a modern 'Vette.

If you are looking for a fast car that's not at that "race" level, then this would seem to me to be where the LS can be a practical alternative.
You can make a number of modifications to an Olds motor, which will reduce fuel economy, longevity, and drivability, and increase required maintenance, or you can install an LS motor, get more bang for your buck, and get it in a car that's easy to drive slowly, but fast when you want it to be, with decent gas mileage, and easy maintenance.

If you are just a tinkerin' kind of guy - the type who will put a Lima 460 in an MG just to see if it can be done, then you'll do the LS swap because it's fun to do, and none of this really matters to you, any more than it would have 50 years ago when you wanted to put an SBC into a Model T.

The choice is yours (and you banker's, and your spouse's), but let's not lump all of these very different situations together when yelling at each other.

Okay, talk amongst yourselves...

- Eric

 

1 - This isnt a Hotrod site. Look at the web address

2- You didnt answer my question. "would you really put a LS in a H/O"

 

Hot rods are typically American cars with large engines modified for linear speed. The origin of the term "hot rod" is unclear. One explanation is that the term is a contraction of "hot roadster," meaning a roadster that was modified for speed. Another possible origin includes modifications to or replacement of the camshaft(s), sometimes known as a "stick" or "rod". A camshaft designed to produce more power is sometimes call a "hot stick" or, here, a "hot rod". Roadsters were the cars of choice because they were light. The term became commonplace in the 1930s or 1940s as the name of a car that had been "hopped up" by modifying the engine in various ways to achieve higher performance.
The term can also apply to other items that are "souped up" for a particular purpose, such as "hot-rodded amplifier".



we never have cam question's on here do we ? Or never have on gearing for better linear speed either So Hot rodding is more than fitting
wat was the first v8 to be put in a chevy? Hint valve covers are green.

As far as the second question Never say never. Then again I have a 66 lemans and a 29 madel A tudor .

 

wait wait wait . what i ment to say was Yes if I cant get a smoken Deal on a set of D heads . Know were can I get some of Them?

 

Price is in my build thread.

 

Hey Gary


I took another peak at your build thread and i didnt see a total on the build or a total for what the swap cost.

 

Exactly my friend. Schools in session.
There is a magazine dedicated to this hobby.
< < < < Lookie there

 

The IT Crowd is an awesome Show, anyone who hasn't watched it definitely should.

Sorry, not exactly engine talk, but had to say it.

-Tony

 

Respectfully, I'M NOT GOING TO POINT FINGERS!!!!
Please keep your condescending, derogatory comments to yourself. There is no need to bash anyone here!

Again, if you are a purist, THIS IS NOT THE THE THREAD FOR YOU!!!!!!!!! I hope we can keep this section open, as it is an evolving part of this hobby!



I personally am investigating (OMG!!) a stroked SB/BB Chevy motor and late model trans set-up for my Olds. The availability of machine shops even in the N Texas area that can build a reasonably priced performance Olds motor vs the availability of a 400-450 hp crate motor, hands down points to the Chevy!!!

Yes it has an Oldsmobile emblem on it, however, my car is nothing special and will never be worth big $$$, so I lump it in the catagory of simple hotrodding!!! Cost effective performance in a cool old car, that I can drive everyday of the year, almost anywhere I want!

 

Its funny you picked that cover to post. That 442 was all Olds powered and won 2nd place in his class at the mexican (baja) 1000 1969. Beating out every Chevy in its class.

 

People, I asked you to be civil. If you aren't interested in sharing constructive information pertinent to the subject matter of the thread then visit another forum on this site. NO POT STIRRING! My next involvement will involve specific members with specific warnings.

 

How much more to the topic can you get he asked .
My question is What do you guys think about swapping in a newer style motor like this guy has done. I know some of you would rather stay pure but what about the advantages like gas mileage, horsepower, and reliability?
He ended up taking me for a joyride in his 68 convertible and he had me nailed to the seat the whole ride. Those engines are something else.

If you water it down too much you might as well call it nascar.

 

This is why I don't post on here much anymore.

 

There are quite a few member here interested in alternative swaps, so all of you, please keep on updating us with your progress.

As for the stirrers, I believe we can police ourselves between fellow members and possible moderator intervention!

 

For those who actually are interested in the price. Here's my list for a swap with a manual trans. A TH350/TH400 with dual chevy/BOP bolt pattern is even cheaper and easier.
I have no idea why someone would think you need to change gauges, drveshaft, shifter, radiator, etc... This is an LS swap not a jet engine....

05 5.3L L56 (LM7) 50k miles $900
I changed LS1 intake intake/ aftermarket fuel rail (not necessary) $150
CTS-V oil pan (not necessary, but good for ground clearance) $140
Sachs 1050 flwheel/11" 10 spline clutch/621 bell housing/etc $350 (An auto swap might only need a $10 spacer and/or a different $40 flexplate)
Fans/controller $60
F body exhaust/flanges $110 (still need mufler shop to make downpipes)
ECU reprogram $75
VSS $35
96 Caprice tank, pump, regulator, fuel lines, etc $350
(although others have cut that cost in half by using the existing tank and an external walbro pump)
1" setback mounts $60
Misc, wiring connectors, fittings, etc $100
So about $2500 for the engine swap, and you could probably do it under $2k.
No frame or sheet metal cutting necessary. I did cut the floor of the trunk for the caprice tank, but that was not absolutely necessary.

 

I usually don't get into these discussions but I see a couple of things here:

(1) These cars belong to their owners who are free to do whatever they want to them. Often times I don't agree and if asked for an opinion, I will offer it. Otherwise I don't.

(2) This is modern day hot rodding. It is no different than when they were putting flathead V8's into Model A Fords or small block Chevy's into everything with wheels on it. In those cases it certainly made the cars faster and probably kept them from the crusher.