The 4L65E is grenade waiting for the pin to be pulled, especially in a towing application. Some live, a lot don't, even with a bunch of upgrades. My BIL had one go south on his 95 Z28. Yes, the 4L65-70E are somewhat improved with the 5 pinion planet. GM has had a long standing TSB on these transmissions, I'm talking the 4L65E in trucks due to failure. The Gen 5 motors felt like about 100 hp gain over the Gen 4 motors, so much more low end, rev ridiculously fast and great MPG. They are way behind the Hemi and Coyote motors for power these days, factory. Ford nearly has 50 hp between its 5L and the 5.3L with way more torque in trucks. Some of us will never agree with this swap, we know what these motors put out and can put out with mods and boost. I personally would rather sell my Olds and buy another Challenger than do this swap. It isn't my fault GM can't build a nice looking 2 door RWD car that seats 5 with trunk space these days. GM builds some of the ugliest cars on the road, they used to be the prettiest. Add in my Challenger GT's AWD, it pulls my boat up slimy launches and getting low to mid 20's Imperial towing it. Without the boat, mid 30's Imperial doing 70 mph! This is the slowest one stock, 14.8 1/4 stock but by far the most practical. When the Michelin 3+ season tires, (not even full winter tires) were new, I could floor it with no wheel spin on sheer ice! We pay because we love Oldsmobile and it's OUR V8. Unfortunately, this Pandemic has set everything that doesn't have a pile of parts on the shelf, months behind.

 

No one buys 2 door 5 seater cars. and haven't for decades, and why almost no one makes them.
Does your challanger have 3 seat belts in the back?
The one I looked at did not.
Regulations killed the 2 door mid sized coupe. car seats, booster seats, no kids under this height in front seat.
I have done the baby seat in a 2 door shuffle is blows. taking the car seat with baby in and out of the car. or driving with one child that is to big for a car seat, but to small to legally be in the front seat.
Back in 2017, I would have bought the last year Chevy SS with 6 speed manual. four doors and all. But a 50k car I just can't do. I can afford it, but just can't do it. And why I passed on a 50th anv. challanger. left over. they still think it is worth 49k .

 

Maybe I'm not with current thought, but that's an oxymoronic statement if I've ever heard one.

How the hell can anyone be "into cars" yet never have worked on one? That's not a car guy, that's an effin' POSER.

 

My 463 cost just about as much as my complete LS swap, that's LQ9, 4l80e, Stealth 2 tank, terminator X MAX, etc. Not a junkyard engine either, rebuilt with cam motion cam and other upgrades. 4l80e was gone through an upgraded with ck performance parts. Cost was about the same as my 463 carb to pan. I have more HP, car drives better by far. I have an excel spreadsheet with all the parts and prices. Did all the work myself, including the exhaust. I do have a thread here on CO with all the parts listed too. Just sayin....

 

Yes, there is 3 seat belts. We seriously considered the last gen and current Mustang as well. Having the extra space is nice over the Camaro🤮 or Mustang. A loaded GT AWD is bargain compared to 80+K loaded truck up here, 30K less.

 

Exactly, to do it right, not the bargain everyone thinks it is.

 

No one buys two door five passenger cars because Americans are too f'n obese to fit into the back seat anymore. This is also why new cars are so tall - these morbidly obese customers can't get in or out of a low car. It was a shock to me a few years ago when I realized that the door handles on a final-gen Ford Taurus parked next to me were at my eye level when I was sitting in my 1984 Custom Cruiser.

 

I don't know about that Joe. When I was selling cars my observation were the bigger the person, the smaller the car. There are still 2 door cars out there that are quite popular, Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Jeep Wrangler, and all the foreign contributors.

 

The sales figures for all the 2dr cars still on the market are a minuscule fraction of the sales of more-door cars. In the 1960s, 2drs outsold 4drs. And most Wranglers are four doors these days. As for the Mustang, just look at the Mach E. That's what's coming.

 

Trucks minivans, crossovers, and SUV's accounted for 75% of all vehicle sales in the US last year. Car sales in general are miniscule.

 

So every kid that could not afford a vehicle but loved them are posers. or lived in a city and had no place to put(read park) a vehicle GOT IT.
Or those that lived in a HOA that you CAN NOT WORK ON YOUR OWN VEHICLES in your driveway.
Maybe THINK before you speak. These are issues older generations caused. HOA's, town bylaws. and other things that make it harder for a car guy/gal that isn't a homeowner with a 2 car garage to drive into to do any work in. TODAY every Karren picks up the phone if you work on your car in your own driveway or apartment parking lot, or the street.
Ask any car guy/gal what type of hell an HOA is about vehicles. NOT EVERYONE has a place to work on their vehicles even if they WANT TOO!.
HOA'S should be outlawed, wanna guess what generation came up with those ****/commie groups?
This is the reality for many people.
I own a rental property that isn't in a HOA but the town bylaws state no vehicle repairs in public view. And the general public will drop a dime. The popo come out, put And stop you. So a kid with a project car is a nogo, a kid with a car they plan on doing upgrades, cam swaps, etc, nope. You best have a garage to roll it into and shut the door. Sadly the generation that lived the 40-60's car culture are the ones that wrote,pushed for these bylaws and HOA rules on vehicle repairs.
This is reality for a lot of people. So they might have never turned a wrench on anything they've owned.
The home I own and live in. They will call if you have a vehicle up on stands doing brakes, exhaust, whatever. THEY WILL put an orange sticker on it, and time and date, if they come back in 36 hours and it isn't a running,moving vehicle they WILL tow it out of your driveway at YOUR cost . The town bylaws on this were written, voted on and passed in 1996 so the Town leaders(selectmen) would have been the boomer generation, or what is labeled the greatest generation.
Not every home here has a garage, so those car guys/gals are S.O.L.
Sorry for the rant, but many people that love cars, can't even if they wanted to , work on or build their own fun week end vehicle.

 

PURE B/S.Even in the 70-80's the auto ad part of the news paper had tons of ads with baby on the way, must sell.
And back then the regulations on kids in cars was basicly do what you want.
You go out and try to get A required today monster of a baby seat into a new mustang, or even the much larger Challanger.
Now do it without waking the baby.
This is why 2 doors died. Royal pain in the butt and many buyers said no to it.
To get a required baby seat into my 1975 cutlass, you have to move the seat all the way forward and squeeze the seat in sideways, then turn the seat and do yoga to strap it in.
So for Grandpa to take the grand kids to get ice cream, fight with the baby seat, and then stuff the 4y/o and 6y/o in the back seat, even in the 75 the back seat gets tight with 1 baby seat and two kids back there.
It be a headache to have to do this every day, for a mother. I can see why 2 doors sedans and mid sized coupes died .

 

There was good information in this thread? I must have missed it.

 

no information, just regular CO “get of my lawn” crowd bashing and bitching about everything.. Guess it comes with age. Lol.

 

Someone who has done an LS swap would say that last comment.

 

Yes sir, and loving it. The only regret I have is not doing it right away, wasted so much hard earned money and precious time.

 

How is the 3.7v6 as far as day to day, and get out of it's own way. the AWD challanger can't be light.

 

I might do an LS swap for myself one day, in a Monte Carlo where it belongs. But, I would have to buy some black wheels first, and that's not happening because I f-ing hate black wheels.

 

The 3.6 with the 8 speed is awesome. Quick, off the line and on the highway, you pass, look back at the speedo and you are doing 180 km/hrs. We had a 3.5 5 spd we traded in. The Nag 1 Mercedes trans was flawless. The 3.5, only decent power on the highway. Off the line, only acceptable, only good mileage on long trips but still 5 mpg less than our GT. I accidentally stretched one regular only change, just under 8000 km, the old 3.5 POS started using oil. Also had the dreaded tick, being a 2010, it should have had all the upgrades. The 8 speed is a huge upgrade over the 6 spd GM in trucks I have drove, never seem to find the power band. Those 5.3 LS 6 spd were pathetic, this feels way more powerful. Yeah, not light, around 4100 pounds.

 

Sorry, but that's a bunch of crap. I drove my son all over in my 1970 W-30. Putting the car seat and him in the back was no big deal, and frankly, the fixed belts (vs inertia reel) made the car seat much more secure. Look around you. Americans can't can't climb into the back seat of a two door. The justification that I need a monster SUV because of my kid is also crap. And most of the people I see with these don't-call-it-a-station wagon "crossovers" don't have small children in child seats and drive these things with only one person in them most of the time. Frankly, I don't give a rat's patootie. I'll never own one and I couldn't care less as to what new cars look like. My daily is the 1985 Delta, to be replaced by the 67 Delta when I get that done.

 

Back to about the LS swaps... I have never done one but I can see why people do. Way back guys were swapping flathead V8's in their 29 model A's. Later guys were swapping Small block chebbys in their 40 Fords. Yes then Olds V8's or 1st gen Hemis in their whatever. Late model swaps have always happened. I have a 71 Cutlass, in my opinion the stock 350 and turbo 350 are fine and I never would consider a LS or other late model swap. I also have a 56 F100 that has a later model Ford 300 6 in it. I always felt that a Olds should get a Olds, Chrysler should get a Chrysler, etc, if doing a later engine swap. But what if you have a nice 61 Olds 88 or a Pontiac? What late model, fuel injected engine would you install that is the same manufacturer! You cant!! Closest you can get is a LS. I really love a 61 Olds 88 2 door hardtop, just a beautiful car in my opinion. But if I had one and the finicky slim jim trans was bad, or the 394 needed a big dollar rebuild, I would enlarge the trans tunnel and do a LS/ GM truck automatic trans swap. I'll bet it would be a great cruiser!

 

Part of it is this.
old engines get sent to a machine shop, to get bored, decked, balanced, and whatever it needs ,customer wants, and either the shop screws it together or the customer brings it home and does it.
It isn't the 60-70-80's anymore with machine shops in every city/town. Good machine shops. Those that are around have a wait. and you have to wait till they can fit you in and have all the parts . This can take months.
I have a short block and all the needed parts, the block just needs to be bored and then decked, see ya in 2 months, we'll call ya when we are ready for you to bring the parts and block.
Or get a crate engine dropped off at your door, with warranty. no breaking in a flat tappet cam and lifters, just bolt it in, wire it up, fire it up check for leaks, and off to cruising, while the buddy (me) is in his pass seat because I am 45 more days out before they even start machining my block.
My friend will be driving his car all season, while I might get my short block back Aug. And if I am lucky AFR300cc ovals will be here by then, ,And intake, And I can screw it all together and fire it off before labor day. And this is a BBC the olds 350 I'm sure will take even longer, just from sourcing parts stand point..

 

I have a cheap re-ringed 455 engine with some decent used go fast parts in it. If something happened to the engine in my car I could be out driving again in a few hours.

Yes, machine shops are getting few and far between, good ones are even more rare. Simple case of supply and demand, less shops equal more wait time. That’s why I always suggest people find a core engine to build while the car is still running. Who cars if it leaks or smokes a little, enjoy the car while it still runs and drives, take your time building the new engine the way you want it.

I’d be willing to bet I could swap any Olds engine into my car and be driving cheaper and easier than anyone could do a EFI LS swap.

 

I am as **** about my cars being correct as the next guy. My 66 442 3X2 scored 992/1000 to tin Best of Class @ the OCA Nats. However,I wouldn't be opposed to have an LS powered 66 to cruise in. However,I do have a problem with somebody trying to convince me to put an LS in an Olds. Some beat it like a government mine mule saying LS is the only way to go. There is absolutely no doubt you can build an LS with more power than you can an Olds engine. Olds engines are expensive to build for sure and the ones making big power are very expensive. My engine guys just dyno'd an LS withy basically a stock bottom end,a mild set of heads, a good cam with a regular aluminum intake and Holley . It made 725 HP and the guy only wanted $6500 for it. How much would it cost to build an Olds to make that HP? Again,I think a guy should do whatever he wants with his car but quit trying to be an *** about it.

 

When did you drive your son in a baby seat, they have gotten much bigger in the last few years, the older ones are out of spec, just like my simson helmet. The new baby seats are monsters in size

 

This.
For the guy that doesn't want to or know how to build, or keep an older car running the newer engines packages are ideal.
Or the guy/gal that doesn't have a place to do it,

 

As some of the previous arguments on here have gone, I don't have an issue with you doing what you want to your car. (hypothetical you for this example, not anyone in particular.) I hope no one has issue with what I do with mine. This site has a non-Olds engine section for that purpose, and most of the rest of the place is for stock Olds power. I view the LS debate sort of like I view the debate on another lifestyle choice. Those that partake seem to demand acceptance and endorsement, while the rest of us are like, we can do tolerance, and that's really all you should be asking for.

 

I’m too lazy to go thru at least 5 years of posts to see if I have already shared these. In any case, any excuse to dust these off!!!

or this one

 

Brand new cars are there to purchase 😉

 

Goes for sexual orientation, new age pro wrestling and apparently cars as well. They get enraged if you don't like their way of thinking. I am sorry my LS experiences weren't positive like some of the posters here. GM had their chance to wow me, their weak knee truck motors and garbage transmissions sealed my opinion. The Gen 5 5.3/6.2 motors are tempting but no thanks. Maybe I should do a Coyote motor😁.

 

Would that even fit without a torch and a big pry bar?!😛

I've seen 'em stuffed into 60s and Fox Mustangs so I guess it's possible.

 

Well. yes they are.
New Camaro SS2 manual 6 speed 48-50k,
My 75 cutlass, rust free but needing tlc, tired cracking paint, vinyl top, few leaks p/s, oil, the normal old car stuff. under 5k
If I wanted to take the never open the hood just drive it, LS power it, under 5k to get that done.
So under or at 10k for sh_ts and giggles I'll say 15k total 430-455hp ride, or buy a new car at over 50k after taxes and all the other crap that goes with that. Not everyone wants to buy a new car , and watch the value drop.
Even if my car was a 1971 cutlass, and the car and swap was 15k , 5 years later if I wanted to sell it, the value never dropped over that 5 years. the new camaro/mustang/charger/challanger,vette, value took a nose dive.
I looked at a left over 2020 Challenger 50 anniversary, It was 50k . and dealer was sticker or see ya. nice car, but 50k is a lot of money for a Challenger RT 5.7 hemi .

 

Plenty of us out there that don't give a gnat's dink about anyone else's acceptance. We're too busy driving and enjoying our cars.

 

Exactly. Drive my (LS swapped) Cutlass to work everyday, putting more miles on it than my daily and enjoying every second of it.
Love the rumble of my cammed 6.0 through Borla XS mufflers.

 

Drove the work truck today and tried a hard launch. It was Ok and revved fairly quick, it didn't feel like 360hp and 380 tq. It is a 6L 3/4 4×4 with 150Km, not miles. One day, I will find an impressive feeling Gen 3/4 LS.

 

yep. my 2013 grand cherokee with a 5.7 makes 390tq/360hp. even with factory 3.73 gears it's fine, but doesn't begin to resemble quick. 0-60 somewhere in the mid 8's, while weighing 5200lbs. I don't know the exact weight of the 3/4 ton silverado you mentioned so lets guess 5500lbs. Adjusted for weight and effective gear ratio with car sized tires it would be equal to a cutlass with 240tq and 230hp and a 3.0ish gear. tell me that car would wow anyone.

 

I think it is just the LS's lack of low end torque in a heavy vehicle that makes them so lack luster. Now put that 6L in the G8, those were seriously fast. Being about the last decent looking vehicle GM made, I almost bought one. The Gen 5 motors feel massively more powerful with only a slight bump in an equally heavy vehicle.

 

To build a 455 correctly & reliably, get ready for sticker shock. It's an expensive price to pay. Even then, you are still stuck with a 2 bolt main block (unless you buy the Rocket Racing $5,000 block with 4 bolt mains).

The LS engine has a 6 Bolt Main and can easily handle 650HP on stock bottom end parts. The stock LS3 crank has been shown to handle 1,000 HP. Although many forged aftermarket LS cranks are available for 1,000 + HP levels.

Go on the forums and you will see many stock LS engines pushing 200,000 + miles. Many stock 455's failed well before 40,000 miles, especially if driven hard. Modern forged rods and lighter pistons have helped the longevity of 455's.

As with most things in life, it comes down to money. Deep pockets can get you a nice reliably built 455 but for those on a budget, LS engines are the better way to go.

 

FYI, the curb weight of a G8 can be close to 4000 lbs, a 4th gen camaro Z28 or SS can be over 3900 lbs, LS2 powered CTS-V's are 3850 lbs. Safety structures add a lot of weight. These are all LS powered cars with great performance. A 70 W30 is rated close to 3750 lbs and that is with an iron 455 that is a couple hundred pounds heavier than an all aluminum LS. Bashing LS swaps by comparing a bone stock 5.3 powered 4000-5500 lb truck to an LS (most likely upgraded for more performance) powered A-body does not make a whole lot of sense. If you don't like the LS in an A-body because you feel it should have an olds motor great, but just like the PONTIAC G8, if Olds was still making performance cars in the early 2000's you can bet they would have been LS powered.

 

Still not impressed, sorry that disappoints you, they sucked in trucks. The Gen 5 direct injection motors feel like a lot more than 30 hp over the Gen 4, impressed with them . I had a 94 Z71, Olds 350 with the factory swirl port TBI tune, far from ideal, especially in open loop, Olds 307 5A heads, 204/214 cam and 8.5 to 1 compression, shorty headers and 2.25" dual exhaust, 4L60E and 3.73 diffs. The identical geared and same transmission 5.3 trucks with slightly shorter tires were weaker idle to the 4200 rpm shifts, over 4000 the LS had the advantage. The 350 TBI is less than 500 cfm. When I put on a 454 TBI, 650cfm, the 5.3 LS were big time losers down low and would have probably lost up top. Can't get much more apple to apple than that.