Oldspice76

Hey everyone great forum! I've been reviewing any info on 454 and not everyone is to fond of swapping in a chevy engine into a cutlass haha. But it's what a client wants.

I need info on swapping a 350 oldsmobile engine for a 454 GM big block crate engine all ready to go in, request from a client into a 71 or 72 Oldsmobile Cutlass.

Anyone have some knowledge of what would need to be done in order to get this done? Any info would be highly appreciated as to how to do and what to buy. Thanks everyone!

redoldsman

I understand doing what a client wants but I doubt you will get any reponse since it is doubtful anybody here has ever done this swap.

gearheads78

Just pretend its a Chevelle and buy parts accordingly

Redog

What are you doing with the 350? does it run?

gearhead1218

Correct.
You'll need the frame mounts for a BB Chevelle, the motor mounts of course, and a Chevy transmission.

joe_padavano

Not to mention different accessory brackets, wiring (due to different locations of equipment), and asbestos underwear...

rocketraider

The client may always be right, but that doesn't prevent the client from being stupid.

Tell him if he wants a Chevelle to go buy one, and leave the Olds for someone who appreciates it.

Then again I'm the guy who over the years has run three non-originally Chevrolet-powered Oldsmobiles out of my Oldsmobile show fields. I am one who definitely does not subscribe to the false mantra that a Chevrolet drivetrain is the solution to making an old car reliable and drivable. I'd feel that way even if they weren't pieces of caca.

Simply put, your client is an idiot. Make the swap and rape him, because anyone who wants a BBC in an Oldsmobile obviously has more money than he has common sense. Do it half-assed while you're in there; I guarantee he'll never notice the difference.

Can you tell I don't like this idea?

f-85

LOL

gearhead1218

I agree fully here, but was being nice by not stating that in my earlier response.

But, not to be the devil's advocate here, it is HIS car and his to do what he wants with it. Stupid or not.

On an aside, what do the Olds purists consider the LS based motors, Chevy or GM corporate? Are they as taboo as any other non-Olds motor in an Olds?

Allan R

Ok, so you know that Olds guys would prefer to see an Olds motor in an Oldsmobile.
Any chance your client might be talked into a Rocket 455? It's designed to fit a Cutlass and if it's big block power that your client wants, it's almost a straight bolt in. It also has the power your client probably wants. You can even use the TH350 that's sitting behind the Rocket 350, but it would be a good idea to either beef it up, or change it out to a TH400.

rocketraider

I've never pretended to be nice. I call things as I see them.

Quote:

But, not to be the devil's advocate here, it is HIS car and his to do what he wants with it. Stupid or not.

You'd rather see a car butchered than preserved? And for the record, I'd say the same thing about swapping a Buick, Pontiac or Cadillac engine into it. I like those engines, but I don't want to see them in an Oldsmobile body.

Quote:

On an aside, what do the Olds purists consider the LS based motors, Chevy or GM corporate? Are they as taboo as any other non-Olds motor in an Olds?

It's based on Chevrolet engine architecture and was designed with Chevrolet installations in mind; therefore as far as I'm concerned it is a Chevrolet engine and has no business in an Oldsmobile that was not factory-equipped with a Chevrolet engine.

I don't really like the BBC to begin with, and my small-block interest lies only with the 283/327. A Chevy 350 is the most ubiquitous, boring engine on the planet. Workhorse? yes. Good performer? yes. But it's about as appealing as a washing machine.

hsckris

While I generally agree about hybrids (Olds should be Olds, etc.), why is it butchered automatically just b/c it doesn't have an Olds engine in it?

I guess what I am saying is I have no intetion of running a stock vehicle by any stretch, many would consider that butchered vs. preserved. You apparently draw the line at non-original manufacturer. I guess I just wanted to know why. Especially with some of the high quality cars out there. For example, the Schwartz performance car could hardly be called "butchered" simply because it has a LS motor.

gearheads78

Here is my take on this. I would not do the swap if it was my car. If a customer came to me and askes me to do the swap I might lightly try to talk them out of it but if there is any real resistance on the customer's part I would not push the issuse. Right now people willing top spend money are not that easy to come by. The last thing i would want to do is **** off a potential customer that can go down the road and hear BBC is the best thing he could do for the car.

This whole you are going to hell attitude if you do engine swaps is bull ****. We are all in the same car hobby. Just be thinkfull we still live in a free country that you can put a 460 Ford in a 67 Firebird if you want to.
Different strokes for different folks

f-85

I think its more of WHY. An olds engine can do as much or more then a chevy. If your rebuilding a nice ar for a customer WHY put in a chevy engine?

KeithA0000

But if that's what your customer wants, you smile, say yes sir, and tell him that you will "recycle" that old tired engine that's in it right now...

Jokers69

That's the problem with alot of brand specific message boards in any hobby (cars-trucks-guitars-photography-ect..) there's a core of members that can't wait to jump on someone's butt and damn them to hell for even suggesting there's an alternative.. to often it turns into a mob mentality and the one who posed the question never get's any help and he never comes back.

gearheads78

To a point yes but if he is looking to build a fast car BBC wins bang for the buck. Im not talking average 12-13 sec car as fast... the Olds still wins there. If you want to go 10's or 9's you will spend a lot more to make the Olds. Last year I built a 4200 lb street truck for a buddy. Stock GM oval port heads ported, stock 2 bolt block, stock GM rods with good bolts, stock GM crank. We had $2500.00 in the long block with 9 lbs of blow through boost that truck has had a best of 6.56 @ 108 1/8th (for those not familiar with 1/8 mile times if you add a second 1/8th you are talking about a street truck in the bottom 10's

Now an Olds could be built to go just as fast but I assure you you can't do it on the shoestring buget we did it on. Same goes for the LS1 motor. My old 98 TA very mild street car was running 7.1's @97 (10.9's-11.0's 1/4) with no power adders. that was done by adding a cam and porting the heads on the stock short block. I had less than 10,000 tied up in that whole car including the purchase price.

citcapp

Being self employed, I understand that if a customer wants something and is willing to pay for it then you do as he wishes, you might make suggestions but if you meet resistance then you go with the customers ideas. This economy does not allow you to turn away work just because you don't agree with the ideas of others. So let up on the guy he is just trying to make a buck like the rest of us

f-85

Yes i know bang for your buck when going that fast. But its still a chevy powered olds I would never buy a 71-2 chevelle and dump an olds in it. If the guy likes Chevy then buy a chevy. If he wants a chevy powered olds then he probably doesnt like olds.

But i understand. Business is business. The customer gets what the customer wants.


Josh

88 coupe

Here is a site that deals with "alternative GM motor power".

http://alloldspower.proboards51.com/index.cgi

Norm

f-85

Hey Gearheads78

Im planning a cheep drag car this winter. im planing on less then $10,000. Buying a 468 from a buddys street car 72 cutlass (stock rods, balanced, 9.7-1, home ported Ga heads, performer intake, and 800cfm carb) with a 2200 stahl, 3.31 gears, 3900lb car it ran 12.40 on 87 oct. Im going with a 64-65 F-85 or cutlass stripped down, 4.10 gear, bigger cam, more carb (maybe a dual quad), stip only. Im hoping for mid to low 11s. Not bad for a cheep build with no adders.

88 coupe

His question was answered in post #3.

Same advice one would get on a Chev (or Buick or Pontiac) site.

Everyone: Keep up the "hate speech" (George Orwell called it "old speak") it's my kind of humor.

Norm

gearheads78

Sounds like a cool project. Make sure to keep us informed on it.

I don't have anything against Olds but I also don't have blinders on keeping me from seeing this is the only world like some do.

As for a possible reason this guy is "bastardizing" this Olds. Around here a decent bodied 70-72 Cutlass can be had 1500-3000 on a regular basis. The same condition 70-72 chevelle will bring 3000-6000 all day long.
He may have just wanted on old muscle car and the Olds is what he could afford.

f-85

Yeah and some guys like it in the A**. LOL to each his own.


Josh

Allan R

Went to the site you posted, but couldn't find the answer to Oldspice76's question.

If this is a GM crate engine going into the Cutty, wouldn't GM Performance be able to help with the technical info and crossover parts/wiring needed to do the job?

My original comments were directed as an option to keep the car all Olds. the only one who really has control of that is the owner. If he wants the chevy crate engine for whatever reason, it's his coin and his car. I think everyone here respects that principle.

Sorry Norm, I just can't find it in me to keep up the "hate speech" or "old talk". But, I'm sure there are others who will give you a chuckle. Best regards.

88 coupe

Plenty of 350/383 advice. It all applies to 454 installations.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cutty

Since Olds no longer exists, it is unlikely they would know anything about the subject.

Tech info was covered in post #3, #5, and #6.

Any parts/wires needed, are available from any Chev vendor.

Norm

Warhead

Really guys, buy a chevelle if you want the BB Chevy, and I like those engines. It does NOT belong in an Oldsmobile. This is what ruined GM back in the 70's (if any of you guys can go back that far-people were PISSED that they started to build these with Chevy engines).

It ruins resale value. Think you'd get the 3K for it as a cross breed? Not from me, or many others out there.

These people just get on our site to get a rise out of us. Most Chevy guys know how to do the swap, with bailing wire, tape and a hot wrench. Always looks like crap afterwards. As they say now...presidentially enhanced.


I think I will buy a Corvette, and drop in a Small Block Olds, race it, and take it to the Super Chevy Shows.8) THEN there would be HELL to pay! Blasphemy!

I am tired of these asholes getting on here with this same goldamnned question- go somewhere else. Like I would go to a Chevy site and ask how to put an Olds engine in...GET REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My GD opinion.
Jim

rocketraider

Of all places, a similar war is raging on AACA General Technical.

Like Jim, I often wonder what the reaction would be to the opposite swap- Olds into Chevy.

Actually I don't have to wonder- it's worse than what's going on here!


And yes, I admit to instigating. I've always found it very easy to stick a burr under a Chevy boy's saddle, and I can be a very good actor when it pleases me to be.

Allan R

Well, I think you know that was not the intent of the word I used, but I can see the humor in it. Now that I know the difference, I will use it in the proper context when appropriate. Got anything on Cutli??

Oldsguy

Come on guys lighten up. This isn't REALOLDSPOWER.COM.

redoldsman

Why don't you guys go over the 442.com and bash the guy wanting to put a SBC in a Rallye 350? I would never consider putting a BBC or SBC in my 72 Cutlass. Are they great engines? Of course they are and cheaper to build. There were more SBC's built than any other engine. I agree the car will lose value but it is the customers money. If the customer wanted it painted and it was not an original color, would you refuse to paint it? I doubt it. Should all the Ford streetrods have Ford engines in them? I don't agree with him but I am not going to bash the guy. Oldsguy is right, this is not realoldspower.com. Thank goodness for that.

Oldspice76

Thank you guys for the time and consideration to actually give helpful advice on our next build, it is not a new build, others have done it, I tried researching quit some bit on the web but no luck, it's easy to go at it straight with a wrench but unlike others, we like to plan ahead and do things quick if we've never done the task before. Hence will do less parts returns and will be a smoother install.

To those who actually care about the American motor culture (remember back in the days, how the garage monkeys built monsters out of anything not caring how along as it had power and it was quicker than a bullet.

Now however...it seems some here have gone or are growing a bit too square in the American motor culture. Thanks to the ones with the respectful opinions whether being for or against, but to those who were ignorant and undisciplined, you should be ignored and would be considered the preppy annoying square from back in time (HA.HA sorry but you FAIL.)

But to the rest, keep the culture living! Buy American! and keep on being gear heads with a drive to build and help each other.

Keep the unfortunate drama fans out for the sake of the site.

Oldspice76

I myself am an all MOPAR man because I am fond of that car style not because of wanting to be part of any social car cult or gang. And I would gladly take any American classic and muscle under my arms if I like it and want to build something of it. I am part of a A bodies forum which is full of knowledge for those who need it for the good of keeping the cars alive no matter what you do to it at least it's still in American roads riding high and proud.

Back to the topic, here is the link to info on the owner who owns the 71 (not 72 got that wrong) Cutlass Supreme WHICH is a custom car not ment to be original. A comfortable yet to be fast car. Wether you think he is stupid or that I am an ******* for asking for honest advice that is a matter of opinion and should be kept for your the silly cult girlies. Once again thank you guys that helped and keep up the good image of this forum which is probly great for those who need knowledge and guidence. I'm out, yall take it easy.

PS if he has more money than brains well...I bet he does have the money, wether he has the brains, you can ask him chao!

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...-7m6foley.html

Oldspice76

Your lack of good judgment and poor assumptions makes you a failure, my psychological opinion "I'll make sure not to rise any more conflicts in knowledge based forums thank you for warning me Well guess what you raise your own issues by being bored and wanting them *hypocrit*

Oldspice76

Hey bud sorry for the wait after getting good responses and thinking that was good enough I come back and see how many more responses I had, unfortunately most were user frightening. We can practically blame rocketraider for starting such a silly and unwanted comment based on the rude drama that is so popular in today's society HA!.

The cutlass has the 350 still in it, we will disassemble the engine bay soon and will see if we can sell it or not, probably we will, the engine is pretty much low in mileage and looks great, I will find out what exactly it has in it in detail, take pictures and maybe run it and take video before we take it out, I will get back to you. Take care.

rocketraider

"She was made for straightaways, she grew up hating Chevrolets"

"Who's junkpile piece of SSSS Chevelle is this? You guys come to race,or just kiss?"

Kathy Mattea got it right!

American motor culture doesn't have **** to do with it. We're talking about someone who is ignorant of what an Oldsmobile engine can do and wants to take the easy and cheap way out by doing the ubiquitous and BORING Chevy engine swap.

If you're going to do an engine swap anyway, at least do something interesting. Nailhead or early Rocket into a streetrod? I'm all about that, even an early SBC trimmed out with multiple carbs or injector stacks. Boring-*** GMPD EFI crate engine into the same car? Shows a total lack of imagination.

So who's really square and ignorant or following the herd? Dare to be different, bubba. Building that Olds mill would qualify as different. Stuffing a BBC in there? follow the herd.

hsckris

This is ONLY relevant for those who value "imagination" and "being different" over other things, such as just having a nice car. It is already fairly apparent to me that the customer is not a gear head himself, or he would be building the car himself. Hence the customer could probably give a crap about being different or unique. I'm not so sure about "boring" either. I can assure you there are plenty of SBC cars that are anything but boring to drive. "Ubiquitous"? I'm not so sure there either. In the hot rodding/muscle car culture, sure the SBC is popular and appears frequently. Did you ever think there might be a reason for that? Shoot, I just read an article the other day where they took a one piece rear main seal block (for 100$ by the way), did a relatively mild build, and got over 400hp. That engine should be reliable for at least 150k-200k if not more. Its pretty hard to beat that. Besides, say what you want but an Olds is a GM, at least to an extent.

If you want my .02 cents: Get over yourself. Hate or disrespect to this level merely shows your ignorance. We are all part of the same hobby, there is no reason we can't just enjoy our cars.

lshlsh2

Between now and April 1. I think I will need to come up with a good thread starter.

Something like "How to put a 302 boss in a 69 Hurst"

88 coupe

No, but if you squint your eyes just right, it looks like it could be a fish.

Norm

Jokers69

If it smells like fish..