rooster

Hey, I have a 68' Oldsmobile 98 hearse with a big block 455 that I'm in the process of restoring. She has been running fine but now will not crank. I've changed the coil, distributer cap, and rotater button. She's getting fuel to the carb but apparently no fire. Is there a cranking relay or sensor I am missing? Best I can tell all the wires are corrosion free. Thanks in advance

oldcutlass

Crank is in the starter is not turning or not firing off when cranking? Is there power at the coil+ terminal both when the key is in the start and run positions?

rooster

The starter is turning over but no power to the coil

MDchanic

So you don't mean to say "It does not crank."

You mean to say, "It cranks, but does not fire up."

Subtle distinction.

As Eric said, check the voltage at the coil (+) terminal when the ignition switch is on.
If no voltage, jumper it to the (+) of the battery and fire 'er up.

- Eric

joe_padavano

I wouldn't call that difference "subtle"...

It's kinda like the difference between having low blood pressure and NO blood pressure.

MDchanic

Sarcasm is lost on engineers.

- Eric

joe_padavano

rooster

I have voltage going to the distributor, but nothing coming out of the distributor. I've installed a new cap and rotory button, bad lower end? I'm at a loss right now

MDchanic

Original points system?

If so, you need this thread.

- Eric

Larry/car

Could be a bad condenser, small fire cracker type unit connected to points. If that shorts out, just like grounding the coil wire. If your car was converted to electronic ignation, there is a module under the distributor that fails without warning causing no spark to the plugs.

rocketraider

Pull the distributor cap and see if the rotor is actually turning while you crank the engine over. That will let you know if distributor is functioning and the drive gear roll pin or timing chain isn't busted.

MDchanic

All the information he needs is in the link I posted.

The OP has not been back since the one day when he posted, so I suspect he's given up, and is asking his neighbor who's an electrician.

- Eric

rooster

Nope, after changing the condenser and it still didn't "fire up" I just installed a new distributor and it worked. No need at ask a neighbor considering I don't have one lol

rooster

Now all I have to do is set the timing. She runs but a little rough

MDchanic

You understand that the advance curves of whatever replacement distributor you installed will not be correct for this engine, right?

Why not just change or adjust the points?

- Eric

oldcutlass

Hahaha, glad you got it running. A new point set would have been less expensive than a distributor... Did you replace it with another points type or ???

rooster

I bought the points and condenser kit and still got nothing so I figured my last resort would be to change the distributor.

MDchanic

But the distributor itself is nothing but a rod that spins.

If the engine turns the rotor, the car should run.

The advance mechanism may or may not work, but even if it doesn't, the car will still run.

The only things that can create a no-spark condition in a points distributor if the rotor is turning (excluding non-distributor parts, such as rotor, cap, wires, and coil) are bad points, bad condenser, bad points wire (broken or shorting out), and broken points plate ground wire.

Go take a look at the old one and see which one this is. If you can't, then send us photos.

- Eric

rooster

I bought the points and condenser kit and still got nothing. So I figured as a last resort I would change the distributor. I got a new distributor for 60 bucks so whatever works

MDchanic

Pictures. We need pictures.

- Eric

rooster

Pictures of?

oldcutlass

You need to set the dwell prior to setting your timing.

rooster

Forgive me, first time trying to upload to a forum with a smartphone

MDchanic

Pictures of the distributor that you removed, showing the points, the points plate, and the points wires.

We can figure most things out with enough pictures... And liquor.

- Eric

rooster

This is the old distributor with the points removed. I'm going to put the old points back in before I take it back for the core (which ain't but 3 dollars)

rooster

Now I don't know anything about setting the dwell or anything like that?

MDchanic

Nothing obviously wrong with that points unit, though I can't see the actual contact points, or the rubbing block.

The parts of the distributor that I can see look good, as does the distributor end of the points wire.
I can't see the other end of the wire, though.



I'd say that explains it.

If the rubbing block was a bit worn, and the points had closed, and you didn't set the dwell or even roughly set the gap with a matchbook cover, then you'd be unable to start the car with that distributor.

You need to get a dwell meter, install a new set of points and get the engine running with your old distributor, which should work well, so long as the shaft isn't excessively worn.

Meanwhile you can disassemble, clean, and lubricate it, which always gives one a nice warm feeling.

Eric

rooster

A guy that builds race cars that lives a few miles away had a timing light helped me set the timing on the car. He said the pick up was burned out. Whatever that means lol

MDchanic

It means he's an idiot, as a points ignition, which you have clearly photographed, has no pickup.

- Eric

rooster

It runs good but the timing is still a little off. She has a little spark knock and valve chatter with moderate acceleration. I'm going to take it to a mechanic in the morning to dial it in correctly

m371961

If they do not hook up a dwell meter first, leave and do not go back.

MDchanic

Why not bring the old distributor with you and see if they can re-install it, or at least tell you why it didn't work.

- Eric

Octania

Do not sell that for $3

take it apart, fix the bearings as need be, refresh the grease, polish the shaft, put it back together

it will have the proper curves for your engine.

It is not difficult, esp if the bushings are still OK.
I have the bushing tools, and so can you.

MDchanic

Whoa.

I didn't see this.

DO NOT take it back for the core.

I will PayPal you $3, just so you keep it.

I will PayPal you $3, plus shipping, and have you send it to me, so I can keep it and send it to the next person who buys your car.

It sounds like you're new to this. Do not cavalierly throw away original perts that can be used.

- Eric

oldcutlass

I would suggest you do some reading on how to tune an old car with emphasis on your old car. Its not that complicated but does require a few specialized tools and a bit of knowledge. I would invest in an inexpensive tach/dwell meter, an inexpensive dial back timing light, a points adjusting tool that fits into the screw through the window in your cap for adjustment, a vacuum gauge, and a feeler gauge. All this can be had for less than you will spend with a mechanic to perform this service for you.

I wouldn't turn your old distributor in for $3.00 either.

MDchanic

If there aren't any yard sales or flea markets nearby, where a dwell meter can be obtained for $2-$5, I can sell you one for probably about $5 (I have to check my stock).

- Eric

rocketraider

Have a feeling the points may have closed up from wear, but me Toronado's original distributor would act up sometimes and stall the car. Everything checked good, but it would stutter, stall and then immediately fire back up. After a few months of that boolshat I yanked the distributor and replaced it. Three years later put a Pertronix in and haven't looked back except for the time I pulled it and had it checked on a Sun machine. Even that was because a buddy had bought the Sun machine and we were all putting our distributors on it.


Did you have the detonation problem on the old distributor?

rooster

Haha sell parts to next person who buys it. She ain't going anywhere, and for the record I ain't broke so I'm not in a desperate need of the 3 dollars. And yes I'm doing as much research as I can, that's why I'm here

rooster

She is running great with the new distributor. I drove it to a mechanic and he showed me how to set the dwell and how to use the dwell meter. Thanks guys

oldcutlass

Cool, what settings did he use for dwell and timing?