Gonzalezmax84

no start help please
hey everyone,
so i need some serious help. its a long story but basically i have been working on my 1950 olds its the original v8 303 2barrel rochester AA side draft carb. i had the carb professionally rebuilt. put it back on it ran great check the time there was a slight miss fired but over all running great. so i drove it around drove home part it went to sleep and that was that. the next day went to work, left work ready to come home and drive my olds and got to my local cruz night. but car did not crank but i found that the contacts on the solenoid starter were worn out. ordered a new one but for the mean time for a quick fix till my part came switched around the contacts on the old one to see if that was really the problem. so after a quick switch around sure enough the olds started right up. but was running a little rough so i shut the car off because i still needed to tighten so stuff up. after tithing everything up i tried to start the car over and nothing the olds just cranked and cranked and cranked i have plenty of fuel and are mixture and going to the carb even tried starting it was brake and carb cleaner. and still nothing. so i thought that at this point for sure the solenoid stater is done. so now i received my know solenoid installed it and still nothing.
i thought that it was maybe the ignition coil and i changed that and still nothing to i thought maybe its the points and condenser so i switched it to the electronic ignition. im now waiting for the new kit cause i accidentally fried the first one. also is there a way to damage a new coil if you connected it wrong and cranked it. this is also a 6volt system. please help me out if there is anything eles im missing or suggestion please help me get my girl back on the road.
thanks alot
max

One more thing would my voltage regulator be part of he problem my new battery is now dead and car is still not running same thing. Had plenty crank, fuel, air, and nothing still?! Everything is connected right? Help please
Max

oldcutlass

Welcome Max, just a note that we do like pictures. An engine requires air, fuel, and properly timed spark to run. Seems that you are missing the spark part of the equation. Have you checked for voltage at your coil while your cranking the engine? Have you checked for spark at the plug?

Gonzalezmax84

Hey thanks for responding to my post. No I havent checked that yet I going to do so tomorrow with a voltage meter and a test light. But what I was think is if the voltage regulator would cause of the coil having no spark or somthing like that?

MDchanic

No. Not really.

You need to understand how the ignition system works, and then troubleshoot it systematically.

As you are possibly the third person this month that I've needed to explain this to (and therefore, as you could find this information by searching for it), I am finally motivated to do what I've been threatening to do for a while now, which is to scan in the excellent ignition troubleshooting directions from my 1965 Glenn's Manual, so here it is:

"IGNITION SYSTEM

The ignition system furnishes the electric spark which fires the mixture. Absence of a spark, or a weak spark, will cause starting trouble. Ignition troubles should be isolated by logical testing. For this purpose, the system is broken down into its smaller circuits: The primary and secondary. Each of these should be broken down further and individual components tested separately.

To Test the Entire Ignition System.

• Remove one spark plug wire and hold it about ½" away from the base of the spark plug or any metallic part of the engine.
• Crank the engine with the ignition switch turned on.

A good spark from the wire to the metal means that the entire ignition system is in good working order.
No spark, or a weak, irregularly occurring spark, means ignition trouble, which must be traced by the following tests:

To test the Primary Circuit (Test 1).

• Loosen the distributor cap rationing bails and move the cap to one side.
• Remove the rotor.
• Turn the engine over by means of the fan belt or starting motor until the contact points close.
• Turn on the ignition switch.
• Remove the high tension wire leading to the center of the distributor cap;
  this is the main wire from the ignition coil which supplies the high voltage to the rotor for distribution to the spark plugs.
• Hold this wire about ½" from any metallic part of the engine.
• Open and close the contact points with a screwdriver.
• Hold the distributor against the moveable point only as shown.

A good, regularly occurring spark from the high tension wire to ground means a good primary circuit and a good ignition coil.
No spark, or a weak or erratic one, from the high tension wire to ground means primary circuit trouble or a bad ignition coil.

To Test the Ignition Contact Points (Test 2).
To test the condition of the ignition contact set,

• turn the engine over with the fan belt or starting motor until the contact points are separated.
• Slide the screwdriver blade up and down, making contact between the movable point and the bottom plate of the distribute, as shown.
  You are now using the screwdriver tip and the bottom plate of the distributor as a set of contact points.

A good spark from the high tension wire to the ground, after having had no spark in Test 1, means that you have a defective set of contact points.
No spark, or a weak one, means primary circuit trouble, other than the ignition contact points, or a bad ignition coil.

To Test the Condenser (Test 3).
A shorted condenser can be checked by noting in the previous ignition contact point test (Test 2), whether or not the tip of the screwdriver blade sparked against the ground plate as it was slid up and down.
No spark at the tip of the blade means either a shorted condenser or a break in the primary circuit.

This can be checked further by

• disconnecting the condenser case where it is screwed to the distributor
  (do not disconnect the condenser wire lead).
• Hold the condenser so that its case does not make contact with any metallic part of the distributor.
• Repeat the test of moving the screwdriver blade up and down while holding it against the movable point.
  Be sure that the contact points are open while making this test.

A spark at the screwdriver tip now, which was not present with the condenser in the circuit, means that the condenser is shorted out.

No spark at the screwdriver tip with the condenser out of the circuit means that there is an open circuit somewhere in the primary. Check the small wire lead from the primary terminal to the movable contact point. This wire lead sometimes [breaks] under the constant flexing of [the] operation [of the centrifugal advance mechanism].

To Test the Secondary Circuit (Test 4).
The secondary circuit cannot be tested until the primary circuit is functioning perfectly. If the primary circuit tests good, or after the necessary repairs have been made to the primary circuit, then the secondary circuit can be tested.

To test the secondary circuit,

• turn the engine over until the contact points close.
• Then turn on the ignition switch.
• Hold the main high tension wire (from the center terminal of the distributor cap) about ½" from any metallic part of the engine.
• Open and close the contact points with a screwdriver blade held against the movable contact point only.

No spark, or a weak one, from the wire to the block (with a good primary circuit), means a bad ignition coil or a defective main high tension wire from the coil to the distributor (especially where it runs through metal conduit).
A good spark here (with no spark to the spark plugs) means that the trouble must be in the distributor cap, rotor, or spark plugs. It is seldom that spark plug high tension wires (unless obviously rotted) will keep an engine from starting.
To check the main high tension wire, from the coil to the center of the distributor cap, replace it with a new piece of high tension wire, or remove the old wire from the metal conduit and repeat Test 4 while keeping the suspected wire away from any grounded surface.

To Test the Distributor Rotor (Test 5).
Test the distributor rotor by replacing it on the distributor shaft and holding the main high tension wire (from the coil) about ¼" from the top of the rotor.
With the ignition switch turned on, crank the engine with the starter.
If the high tension spark jumps to the rotor, it is grounded (defective);
if not, the cap must be defective. Inspect the cap for carbon tracks which indicate the passing of high voltage electricity."
from: Glenn's New Auto Repair Manual, by Harold T. Glenn, Chilton Books, Phila, PA, 1965.








All of the above from: Glenn's New Auto Repair Manual, by Harold T. Glenn, Chilton Books, Phila, PA, 1965.



Image above a composite of page 2-460 of Motor Auto Repair Manual, 37th Edition, Ed. Louis C. Forier, S.A.E., Motor Books, New York, 1974

- Eric

MDchanic

This post is a placeholder to hold the remaining images.

m371961

this needs to be a sticky somewhere.
Thanks Eric

oldcutlass

Voltage and spark check after you get your new ignition in of course. No, I doubt you damaged the coil.

Voltage regulator is not associated with the ignition and maybe a separate issue.

Gonzalezmax84

Thanks guys this is very useful I'm going to try all this out tomorro. But I did already switch the points and condensor to the new electronic ignition if I find everything checks out and still not start any out ideas?

Gonzalezmax84

Other*

oldcutlass

The only thing that comes to mind is you were playing with the starter, it has a wire that feeds the coil voltage during cranking. The other thing is the electronic ignition system may or may not require the resistor wire if there is one.

MDchanic

Note: Edited instruction post above. Text from book added in place of scanned images of text.

- Eric

Tedd Thompson

There is somthing else that on a 6 volt system that can cause hard staring and that is to small of battery connections(read that as 12 volt type cables on a 6 volt system). If your cables are not correct for 6 volt you often can crank till the battery is dead and not start. The correct cables can be found at places like Tractor Supply or other industrial farm type business that deal with 6 volt systems... Tedd

MDchanic

Absolutely true, Tedd, and 6 volt connections have to be even squeeky-cleaner than 12 volt connections. The slightest corrosion can cause problems.

- Eric

oldcutlass

Good info Eric, we'll see if we can get it on a sticky in the engine section.

MDchanic

Why, thank you, Eric.



- Eric