I recently discovered a REAL survivor 1959 Dynamic 88 coupe with 10201 miles on it. The guy before me made a mistake by painting it very cheaply but other than that, the car is very near perfect and unrestored. The 394 engine runs like new.

The car has one cracked paine of glass in the right door. My glass guy told me to try to find one with the chrome frame already on it. Anyone know where to get this part with original glass and original chrome?

 

Hello and welcome to the forum! Wow an original '59 88 Coupe, very nice! Please post some pics for us.

Have you tried the yards out west like Desert Valley Auto Parts for example ? http://www.dvap.com/

 

Buick, Pontiac and probably Chevy should have the same door glass. We really do need those pictures. A great find.

 

The standard engine in the Dynamic was a 371, since it is flat glass it should not be too hard to find but yoiu need to see if it is tinted or clear to match.

 

Yes the standard engine was the 371, but this one has the 394. Not sure why, but the original owner opted for the slightly larger engine and I have had it confirmed. I'm not sure if there are any other 1959 88's out there with the same engine.

 

Note: I really don't have any pix of the interior. I have the original wheels and tires but they are not on the car. I have the side-skirts in great condition. The guy who had it before me painted it (should have been a crime). Other than pain, the car is basically untouched. The AM radio still works as does EVERYTHING else on the car.

 

I'll give them a try - thanks!

 

Not only was the 371 the standard engine on the '59 Dynamic 88, it was the only engine offered, and it came in two different versions putting out 270 or 300 hp. The 394 was not offered in the Dynamic line. It was the standard engine in the Super 88 and 98 lines and came in only one version putting out 315 hp. If this car has a 394, it did not come that way from the factory.


By the way, exactly what have you had "confirmed?" That the original owner purchased the car originally with the 394, or simply that the engine sitting in there now is a 394? And who confirmed it?

 

Confirmed was with the original owner who is now deceased, and from two of my mechanics. I confirm that the only documentation I have ever found said that only the 371 was was offered. The man who bought the car new was from Baltimore and worked at the GM plant in Baltimore and Wilmington where the car was made. Perhaps he was able to get a special order. However, I'd like confirmation from an expert like you. The car is a numbers matching car with 10300 original miles on it. So the question is: how can you tell the difference between a 394 and 371 engine from 1959?

 

I'm no expert. The information I posted above comes straight from "Setting the Pace: Oldsmobile's First 100 Years." Production information and figures from this book are posted at wildaboutcars.com, which you can join and access for free.

It's certainly possible that this car is a one-off version of a Dynamic 88 that the original owner arranged to have built with the dealer or factory back in 1959. But I'm kind of curious as to the motivation. If he wanted a 394 engine in his Oldsmobile, why go through the trouble and added expense of having a special Dynamic 88 built if such a thing were even possible? Why not just buy a Super 88? It would have meant about a 10% increase in price for the same body style, but he probably would have had to pay that much for his conversion, anyway. Of course, if he actually worked at an Olds assembly plant, who knows what kind of special arrangement he might have made. But again, why bother at all when a Super 88 with the engine he wanted, anyway, was right there for the buying?

My guess is that the engine, if it really is a 394, was changed later for some reason. I don't know what the external differences are between the 394 and 371, and I'm curious as to the qualifications of the mechanics who inspected your car. Not that they aren't good mechanics, but, unless they're old Oldsmobile specialists, 1959 Oldsmobiles probably don't come into their shop every day.

 

Since there was no VIN-derivative stamp on the engine in 1959, no '59 Olds has a "numbers matching" engine.

- Eric

 

Another reason I wonder about the motivation of doing this at all is what does he gain? The higher hp version of the 371 put out 300 hp, and he could have gotten that by just checking a box on the order form. The 394 put out 315 hp, a 5% increase. Was it worth whatever trouble he had to go through to get a special-order Dynamic 88 with a 394 just for 5% more power? Again, seems unlikely.

I know people always have, do now, and always will do strange things with their cars, but this swap seems strange even within the bounds of regular strangeness.

 

If you believe it, I found another online, except restored:

http://www.schmitt.com/viewimage.asp?ID=4382

I understand that the displacement is stamped as 4.125 on the block on a 394. I'll go confirm it.

 

Interesting. I guess anything is possible. As Eric points out, though, there is no such thing as a "numbers matching" '59 Oldsmobile, so the claim that it has a "big block numbers-matching" engine is meaningless. Also, the ad calls it a "Sport Coupe." Olds did not use the term "sport coupe" in 1959 and never used it in reference to a full-size 2-door in any year. The term was only used in the A-body lines. That car is officially called a "Holiday SceniCoupe."

 

Here's a page out of the '59 Olds brochure. All of the engine specs are on the right side.

 

No matter what engine it has, it is a mighty nice find! If he worked for Olds, I suspect he damn well could configure any model any damn way he wanted. Maybe he wanted a sleeper!

 

If he wanted a sleeper, he sure picked a strange way of getting one. He got a motor with 315 hp instead of the 300 hp he could have gotten with the regular engine. That's all of 5% more. That's a "sleeper?" I think it's more like comatose.

And just because he worked for Olds doesn't mean he could get a car configured any way he wanted. Depends on what his level was. If he was a corporate VP, yes. But if he was a worker on the assembly line, maybe not so easily.


Again, even if he could do this, the question of why is still there. There was really almost nothing to be gained by putting in a 394 over the 371.

Plus, I could see that Olds would be reluctant to allow this as doing so undercut their own model line. The whole point of putting the larger, higher-power engine in the higher end model was to get you to buy the higher end model. If the higher-end engine was available in the lower-end model, that's less reason to buy the higher-end car.

 

Here is what I found: I forgot that I have a 1959 oldsmobile service manual. In the very front of the book, it says exactly that the 394 was the engine designated for the s88 and 98, and that the 371 was for the dynamic88 only. It describes both engines: the 371 is painted gold and the 394 is painted green. Additionally, on the left side of the engine right between the middle two spark plugs is an engine designation number. It starts with either a C, D, or E. C=4" stroke and a 371. D=4.125" stroke and a 394. E is for the 394 with the low compression option.

Keeping in mind that the engine has never been cleaned so it has soot, oil, and dirt on it, but the color green (really teal) shows through. On the left side of the engine, right where the service manual states it is the engine number starting with D. So, I can say definitively that I have a Dynamic 88 with a 394CID engine.

Does anyone know of an Oldsmobile certification organization who can certify this car as a low miles survivor?

 

Curiouser and curiouser.

You know we want lots of pictures, right?

- Eric

 

Well, it seems you certainly have a 394. The question as to how it got in there is what's interesting and may never be fully known. The fact that the other '59 D-88 for sale also has a 394 suggests maybe some sort of official way of getting one even though all the literature on this, both contemporary with the car and historic now, says that the only engine was the 371. Maybe Olds was running short of 371 engines towards the end of the model year and threw 394s into the last Dynamic 88s made. I don't know, just guessing.

What still gets me is the motivation. Why bother taking extra, outside-normal-channel steps to get the bigger motor when just going to the 4-barrel carb on the 371 got you most of the horsepower increase you could get, anyway.


As far as "certifying" it as a low-mileage survivor, I don't know of any such organization. I don't know how you would certify it, either. Odometers back then had 5 digits as we all know, and a well-maintained original or restored car with 125,000 miles on it can certainly look like it has only 25,000 even on close inspection. What would be the definition of "low" mileage, anyway? Less than 10,000 miles? 25,000? 50,000? What's the mileage on this car, anyway?

 

To amplify on Jaunty's point: I've never heard of any organization, for any make, certifying that any car was either low-mileage or a "survivor."

Generally, that fact is established between the buyer's powers of persuasion and the seller's powers of filtration.

- Eric

 

Hell maybe the original owner was the guy installing engines on the line, that would explain the simple 394 swap and someone else with a S88 ended up with his 371. Mistakes do happen.

 

Welcome to CO! Well regardless of the engine, it is a beautiful car. Please post more pictures, especially of the interior.

 

Beauty, regardless of miles or motor. You mention the paint is not-so-great but is it the original color? How much paperwork did you get? A serires of registrations and maintenance receipts with the mileage noted are a good way way to verify history on a car.

 

Jaunty: My understanding is that there were about 36000 D88s made that year and this is a high serial number car. The odometer shows 10201 when I bought it. It now has 10320 two years later. Logic would tell you that the ODO rolled over except that would mean that somehow the car magically didn't age. Simple logic tells you that it can't have that many miles: the interior looks a little dirty, but the original seats, carpet, and floor mats are in the car, all with no real wear. The floor mats are the old plastic type that are yellowed, but not cracked: especially where you'd expect it like by the driver's feet. Furthermore: the gas filler is in the bumper and spilling gas of the day would have surely rotted the chrome bumper, which is in very good condition. Other evidence is that the windshield is not pitted at all. Any car with more than 100,000 miles seems like it would be pitted. The headliner is clearly old, but in excellent condition as if it took no abuse. The original bias-ply tires, while cracked from age, still hold air. The trunk looks nearly as if it were never used. There many are other bits of evidence as well.

hokem: unfortunately this guy who had it before me (the original owner's neighbor) didn't appreciate the car as a survivor and he threw the cheapest paint job on the car he could. He assumed that the faded pink was actually red back in the day, but it was infact, rose/bronze originally as evidenced by the original color in the trunk by the back dash deck. Also, the documentation is very weak. I am investigating the history further but unfortunately the original owner, as I know it, was an alcoholic with no family and is now deceased. By "low mileage" I think it should be defined as less than 100,000 miles, even though that was very high mileage back in the day.

I'll be taking more pix showing the car in it's uncleaned, un-restored state and posting them soon.

 

Beautiful car, one of my favorite body styles. My aunt had one, don't recall if it was a dynamic or super, but the Olds torque played heck with the tires of the day! Can't wait to see more pics.

 

Thanks Mike. It's amazing mow much torque the car has, and how well it picks up speed. 50mph in this car feels like standing still. The guy who had it before me told me that he took it out one night before he sold it to me and stopped accelerating at over 110 mph when he realized the car was just going to keep going faster and faster. He said it seemed like it would never stop accelerating. High torque / high horsepower - love it!

 

It certainly sounds like a very low mileage car. I'm not doubting the mileage. My real point was that there aren't any (that I know of) organizations that "certify" a car's mileage, low or not.

As you say, the evidence is strong that the odometer has not rolled over and that the mileage is correct. But strong evidence isn't proof because things can be replaced or restored. The car has been repainted. Do you know why? With such low mileage, it can't have spent that much time on the road. That suggests that the paint needed to be replaced for other reasons, such as maybe that the car sat outside for much of its life and the paint faded. But it could also be that the car has 110,000 miles on it, and the paint got scratched and nicked and so forth from normal wear and tear. I'm guessing this is not true, but the bottom line is that you just don't know.


Also, production of Dynamic 88's for 1959 was MUCH more than 36,000. Not counting the Fiesta station wagons, total production of all body styles of '59 Dynamics was 191,587. Production of your car's particular body style, 2-door coupe (Holiday SceniCoupe) was 40,259.

By contrast, production of '59 Super 88's, not counting station wagons, was 108,092, which is not much more than half the D-88 production.

 

Jaunty: The car was painted because the guy before me didn't like the faded (patina) pinkish color.

Where did you get your production numbers? I have found twice, including on this forum "59 Dynamic 88 Holiday 2 dr Hdtp- 38,488" https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tatistics.html

Not sure of that validity, but I certainly would like to know exactly who THE authority is on antique Oldsmobile. If you have any references, I'd love to take a look at them.

 

But this is not what you said in your earlier post.

You said "My understanding is that there were about 36000 D88s made that year." Period. Anyone reading your sentence takes that to mean production of ALL '59 Dynamic 88s. You didn't say 36,000 two-door hardtops. Big difference.

Your figure of 38,488 2-door hardtop Dynamics is actually close to the value of 40,259 that I have. My value comes from "Setting the Pace - Oldsmobile's First 100 Years." Production figures for the entire history of Oldsmobile are in the index of this book, and this index is reproduced at wildaboutcars.com, which has lots of useful Oldsmobile (and other brand) information and is free to join.

 

I just posted pix to te albumn below:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...+miles%21.html

 

Eckler's "Late Great Chevy" has a ton of parts for full-size Chevy's from '58 and on. The greenhouses were all pretty much the same. I'm betting that the glass from a '59 Chevy would fit:

http://www.lategreatchevy.com/catalo...1&y=8&cat=4807

 

cool car, welcome and enjoy the car. Since the car was repainted I'm not sure how much it matters whether the car has 10,000 or 110,000 miles. My car had 99,000 when I got it and it looked like it could have been 9,000 just on a 25 year old car. I guess my point is as long as you don't mind its almost better to have a car with 100k miles as every mile you drive a car with 10k you lower its value, doesn't really matter on a 100k car nearly as much.

As far as ordering a car with an engine with only 10 or 15 more HP remember in those days 15HP was a decent amount of HP. Today you can buy a new cold air kit and add 20 hp to a new Mustangs (of course that kis costs hundred's of dollars as well) so maybe the owner just wanted the top dog engine whether it was only 10 hp more or not

 

Racer24ksi : Thanks for the reference! I placed my order. I think you are right that full size chevy / olds door glass is probably all the same.

 

Excellent! Eckler's was first known for Corvette restoration parts and then for the tri-five Chevy, which is what I use for the '56 Bel Air. They also have "Late Great" for cars like yours, Chevy trucks, Chevelles and others.

Bill
Racer24ksi

 

Just curious - did the glass come in? How did that work out?