kissabletrash

Hello to everyone new to the forum and needing some help and direction with my 72. I paid 5500 its runs and drives but it has big wheels and tires also the 350 gold block runs good but it feels soft no torque. I have a friend that wants to sell me a 455 from a sabre boat. The block is a f block and I think the heads are f also 396021 is on the side of the block. Any input is more than welcome

j_link

Hello and welcome! The 350 should have plenty of torque if it is tuned properly. A 455 could be a lot better potentially, you may want to double check if those are really F heads as they are quite valuable if they are. They would be '70 W30 heads and very hard to find. Good luck.

kissabletrash

There either f or e I have pics but I cant upload them. What is the motor worth if it runs

j_link

It depends on a lot of things, where you are, when it is, who you are buying from, etc. I assume they are E heads, which are still good, just not anywhere near as valuable as the F. I have bought rebuilt Olds 455s that were never run for as little as $300, without reciepts of course... it is very expensive to build an Olds engine compared to say a small block Chevy, but then again there is less demand for them generally due to less people being into them.

That is probably not the answer you are looking for, but for a known runner 455 that has never been rebuilt I would say somewhere between $250 and $750.

Allan R

Welcome to C.O.

First, what size of wheels? If it has big 22+ donk wheels that will be a huge factor in your car driving like a slug. Put the proper 14" or optional 15" wheels on and you'll prolly see some big changes.

How many miles on the car? Have you done a compression test on it? An Olds 350 had 275 ft/lbs or torque (2800rpm) and the 455 had 410 ft/lbs (4400 rpm) Either of those engines would be more than sufficient power for your car. Of course the 455 is a nice to have goody, but IMO you would also need to really build your TH350 or change to a TH400 to handle that torque.

kissabletrash

The casting number is 396021f on the block and the heads are E not f my friend bought the boat for the motor and had to sell his car and he wants 500 they saw the motor run and they were the ones who pulled it so imm confident it will run but it had a blower on it before they got it and it was removed and running on a 800 carb would this be a good motor to put in my cutlass ?

j_link

There are so many variables to answer that question easily. First off what do you want to do with the car? The 350 is a great engine as it is if tuned right and in good condition. If you just want to cruise get it running properly and enjoy. If you want to go faster you could change some thing, like tire size or axle ratio to start, modify the 350, or go with a 455. Keep in mind just because the 455 used to run good, before storage or people's memories started to fade, does not mean you can bolt it in and go with no other work.

Allan R

396021 is a typical 455 block. The F casting means it was produced in the range of 68-72. Common 455 with big valves. E heads were primarily for the 68-70 Toros.

500 for a running 455 isn't bad if that's what you want to do.

One other thing you should check is your gear ratio. If you're running 2:56 (which a lot of Cutlass were), it's not going to be a screaming eagle off the line. If you're looking to increase your power - go with the 455. If you're looking to increase your take off at the line? Check your gears, wheels, compression and make sure the car is properly tuned.

j_link

I believe the E heads were only used on 1970 model year 455, all applications excluding w30 engines, and of course small blocks.

Otherwise I agree completely. Gears and tuning are probaly the best bang for the buck.

kissabletrash

The wheels are 22" I have not done a compression on the 350 I believe it has 170xxx miles on it

Allan R

I believe the SBO head casting for 1970 was '6', not 'E'. E was for 455's

j_link

Alan, I think you misunderstood my reply. I was excluding small blocks of course.

They did not put E heads on any 68 or 69 big block was what I was trying to say in as polite of way as possible.

j_link

I would suggest putting normal size wheels on the car as the first change you make. Not only because the large wheels look so bad but also for performance purposes.

j_link

Alan, re-reading my post I could see how you read it that way. I was not very clear. Obviously no E heads on a small block.

Allan R

Yup, it was just the way I read it. But it's all good now.

kissabletrash

I dontt plan on drag racing the car at all just make it a nice driver with a lot of torque and it seems cheaper to spend 500 and Do a swap instead of rebuilding the 350. would having the blower on it and coming from a boat be a red flag

j_link

That is another tough question to answer, I would not be too worried about it coming out of a boat. But there probably was considerable stress on the engine if it was a blower motor depending on how hard it was run and for how long. I don't know much about power adders, so I'll let someone else add to that.

If it were me I'd probably want to tear it down and check tolerances and internal condition before running it.

j_link

with any used engine purchase look at the plugs, condition of the oil and ask to pull the valve covers.

Allan R

I'm still not sure why this is heading for 455 country when the options of a good running 350/350 and possibly a few low $$$ changes will likely solve the problem.

Even buying the 455 doesn't mean you might not have to rebuild it. Just saying here: You swap out the 350 for a 455. You expect it's going to still give you the launch power with big wheels, Th350 and small gears? No disrespect, but I think you need to stop, and seriously evaluate what you're doing before you go buy a 455. Obviously a numbers matching car isn't the issue - you can always upgrade to a 455/400 anytime you want. The issue for now is increasing the cars performance without spending big bucks.

BTW, even a 455 with big tires and small gears is gonna drive like a slug.

kissabletrash

Part of the reason I am considering the 455 is the price I have yet to see a 455 running for a price I can afford its either a couple grand or a few hundred for a core . im not keeping the 22's I have the 14" rally wheels I just need some tires

Allan R

I considered a 455 for my car too - been there done that, bought the T shirt. Even had the 455 block on engine stand and tore down. In the long run it was more cost effective and guaranteed to keep my original 350.

Spend the money on tires for the 14's and go from there. A friend will understand and maybe even pull the engine and store it for awhile if you need time to evaluate all the pro's and cons.

I know I'm not you and you're only fishing for ideas right now. But one of the best pieces of advice I can give you is to make a rational decision. Don't be swayed by what you think you can get. Work with what you have now and improve on it.

455's that cost in the thousands are rebuilts. If you want a 455 down the road? Buy a core and build it the way you want, not how someone else built it.

j_link

I agree, optimize the 350 with tuning and getting the right size wheels on there. I have been very pleasantly surprised with stock low compression 350 engines I have had in relatively heavy cars ('67 cutlass convertible, '70 cutlass convertible.) Also with gas prices being what they are, you could run the 350 while you take the time to make sure the 455 is in good internal order. Both of the convertibles I listed above were getting 17-20mpg with very little tuning.

You can of course do what you want and it will be a fun learning experience either way.

One last thing, I had more fun with my highway gear convertibles w/ stock 350s than the 455 w/ performance cam and 3.90 gears in my 442. Yes, the 442 is much quicker, but I tend to not drive it as often due to the gearing and lopey cam.

kissabletrash

I appreciate the advise and input I had a good experience with buying a 396 for my Chevelle for 600 and dropping it in and it was exactly what I wanted maybe even more but I dont have the slightest idea about the 455 I was hoping it would be the same 600 was cheap to me for how my car runs

j_link

I've had very good luck with used engines for the most part, excluding one. I did not pay anything for it as it came with one of my cars, guy said it was always kept indoors and turned over. When I got it home it was full of water and locked up. I was out nothing, but still, when you are paying for a running engine you are gamling a bit, and it takes a bit of time to pull the old one and bolt the new one in.

I think your buddies asking price is fair, if it runs good. If not that is high in this area for a core engine.

Hope we are not overloading you with advice. I think you will like it here as there is a wealth of information and a lot of nice people.

kissabletrash

Im here to learn