72old$

Recently got a 1972 Olds Delta Royale 88 convert VIN #3N67K2M546747. I would like to get as much factory info as I can. ie. original color, total number produced, the production # of this one, etc. I would appreciate any the help I can get. Thanks.https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...s/confused.gif

1969w3155

You won't get that from the vin. post a pic of the data plate, mounted on the cowl..drivers side near the base of the windshield. There were 3900 produced that year.

jaunty75

That VIN does tell you that the car originally came with a 350 V-8 4-bbl and that the car was assembled in Lansing, Michigan.

As noted, the info on the body cowl tag will have codes that indicate original paint colors and so forth. There is no information available on the "production number" of the car if by this you mean exactly what number '72 Delta 88 convertible it was that year. Those records don't exist. The body cowl tag will have a code that will tell you the month and week the car was built.

Your VIN ends with 546747. The VIN sequence probably started at 500001 for Delta 88 (they never started at 000001), so your car would appear to be the 46,747th Delta 88 to come off the Lansing line that year. The '72 chassis service manual would have staring VIN numbers for each Oldsmobile series that year. But as I said, it's not possible to know what number Delta 88 convertible yours was to come off the line.

It's actually disappointing the degree to which historical information about Oldsmobiles built before 1977 is not available. Back when it still existed, if you provided them the VIN, Olds couldn't even tell you which dealer sold the car or what it's final invoice price was. That changed for Oldsmobiles built in '77 or later. Send the GM Heritage Center (which now houses Oldsmobile records) the VIN from your, say, 78 Cutlass along with $50, and they can provide you with a copy of the original sales invoice and, I believe, of the original window sticker, among other things.

MDchanic

I believe the data plate is on the passenger side on these, on the horizontal surface behind the firewall, visible behind the back edge of the hood when the hood is raised (it is for the '73's) .

- Eric

GAOldsman

1969w3155 was correct when he stated only 3900 Delta 88 Royale convertibles were produced in '72. And the Vin sequence began with 100001 on any given platform. Here is your Vin breakdown;

3 - Olds
N - Delta 88
67 - 2 Door coupe convertible
K - 350 4 bbl 180 hp
2 - 1972
M - Lansing, Michigan
546747 - Serial # or Production # at that plant

As mentioned above post your trim tag or cowl tag info and someone will tell you basic info such as color interior and exterior and maybe a few options if info is on that tag.

jaunty75

Not true. If it were, then, with a VIN of 5XXXXX, there would have been more than 400,000 Delta 88s built at Lansing that year, and there certainly were not that many made. Starting sequence numbers varied by series. In this case, while I don't have the '72 service manual in front of me, it most certainly started with 500001. It was this way for 1973, and I do have that manual, so it would seem reasonable that it was this way for other years as well.

Sometimes, within a series, the starting LAST digit would vary. For example, a plain 98 could start at 100001, while a 98 "Deluxe" could start at 100002.

GAOldsman

I beg to differ because even in 1975 ALL plants started their sequence at 100001 any year. And had it been from Fairfax, Kansas it would have been a lower serial number since there were over 700,000 Olds made in '72. And I believe Lansing would have produced well over 500,000 for that year. Fairfax, Kansas and Lansing, Michigan were the only plants to produce Delta 88 Converts. I am pretty sure this info is correct but would like second opinions as well. I am always willing to learn especially when it comes to Oldsmobiles.

joe_padavano

Sorry, but that is not correct. Per the factory assembly manuals, each Olds plant received VIN tags that were pre-stamped with the first and last eight characters. Only the second through fifth characters were stamped on the line. The sequential build numbers (100001 and up) were used in order for EVERY Olds built at that plant, not just (for example) Deltas. You could have seen a Delta with sequence number 246101 and a 442 right behind it with 246102. The exception is the Toronado, where the sequence numbers started with 500001.

jaunty75

The VINs certainly did not always start with 100001. Here's the VIN decode page out of the 1978 Olds Chassis service manual.



Look at the far right column. The starting VIN for the Starfires, all of which were built at the Lordstown plant, was 300001, the starting VIN for the Cutlasses, which were built at five different plants, was 400001 at each plant, and for the Toronados, all of which were built at the Lansing plant, it was 700001.

So it's not true that the starting VIN was 100001 at every plant (except for Toronado), at least for this year. I'm guessing it was also true for other years.

It also means that a Delta 88, a Cutlass, and a Toronado, all of which could have been produced at the Lansing plant, would NOT have had sequential VINs, even if they were one after the other in line. To use your example, the Delta could have been 146101, while the Cutlass right behind it would have been, apparently, 446102, and the Toronado right behind IT would have been 746103.


I do acknowledge error in my statement about VINs starting with something like 100002. I misread my chassis service manual on that score.

GAOldsman

This may be the case for '78 but referring to the original question, it pertained to '72 factory info wanted. I guess for '77 up you are correct, as to 1977 was the first year Olds produced over 1 million for the year, but from '68? - '76? the plants all started at 100001 except like Joe has pointed out on the Toro's. Sorry for the confusion 72old$, we all can still agree to disagree and learn something new everyday.

joe_padavano

Thanks, you beat me to it.

GAOldsman

Anytime Joe.

I appreciate jaunty for the '78 info I didn't know, thank you.

jaunty75

You can't make these sweeping generalizations.

First of all, the fact that Olds produced over 1 million cars in 1977 is irrelevant because they couldn't have know that at the BEGINNING of the model year, which is when they would have established their VIN numbering policy. While Olds produced 1 million cars in one year for the first time in 1977, they came close in the few years leading up to that. I'm sure that if they had established any new VIN policy based on the fact that they might achieve a 1 million produced production year, it would have been in place several years before 1977.

Secondly, over lunch I looked at the service manuals for both 1967 and 1973, both of which I have, and in both years, yes, all models but the Toro started with 100001. But the Toro didn't start with a 5 in either year. In '67, it was 600001, and in '73 it was the same as it was in 1978, 700001.

The simple point is that there are no universal truths with regard to what VIN sequence numbers started with over the years. It was mostly 1, but not always, and it apparently was always different for Toronado, but not always the same different number.

So, going back to the beginning of all this, without having the '72 service manual in front of me, it was perfectly reasonable to speculate, as I did, that the 5 as the starting digit in the OP's VIN MIGHT have been due to the fact that VINs started with a 5 that year at that plant for that model. But I was wrong. But it was still a reasonable speculation based on experience with VINs from other years.

jaunty75

If Joe was referring specifically to 1972 in his post, I misread it. I took his phrase "factory assembly manuals," with "manuals" plural, to mean that he was talking about more than one year.

Oldsguy

Welcome to CO.

GAOldsman

Okay jaunty you are right somewhat and I am right somewhat. I apologize for my mistake. From the 72 assembly manual it states all except Toro's which did start off with 700001; and all other plants Fairfax and Linden that produced the Delta 88, Delta 88 Royale, Custom Cruiser SW, 98 and 98 Luxury started at 100001 except for Lansing produced ones started out at 400001.
So for one we were both correct in a way and both incorrect in a way. Back to the question at hand then that would make 72old$s' convert the 146,746th off the assembly line of the Delta 88, Delta 88 Royale, Custom Cruiser SW, 98 and 98 Luxury models. Again, 72old$ sorry for ALL of the

jaunty75

This makes much more sense. Another reason I thought that the starting number at that plant would be something other than 1 was because, if it really was 1, then that would mean that his car was the 446,746th to come off the line at Lasning. That just seemed high to me given that Olds produced just over 758,000 cars for all of 1972.

Even if his was the last off the line at Lansing that year, which is highly unlikely, that would have meant that Lansing would have produced almost 60% of all Oldsmobiles made that year (447,000 divided by 758,000), and the other 40% would have been divided up amongst all the other five or six plants producing Oldsmobiles. I suppose that's reasonable, but it seemed unlikely.

Why is everybody always apologizing? He got his question answered, didn't he?

When these conversations go off on tangents like this is when they get to be the most interesting. In fact, I would go so far as to say that his question wasn't fully answered until your most recent post, where you note that the '72 assembly manual shows that VINs started with 400001 for his car. This information might not have come out if the conversation HADN'T gone off on a tangent.

GAOldsman

Because I'll admit it when I'm wrong and I would like to further help out by decoding 72old$s' trim tag without confusion if posted. And I agree these are the most interesting conversations but normally when they are on the general discussions threads though. But hey we're only human and this was a learning experience for all that reads this, I have been told over and over on other forums that 100001 was the beginning sequence for ALL plants, but as jaunty and Joe both pointed out that is not the case on ALL, but for most of that time frame.

jaunty75

Can't always guarantee that. Confusion is inevitable sometimes. Long-held assumptions are found to be wrong. That's how we learn. That's how we learned in this case.

GAOldsman

Agreed.

joe_padavano

I'd like to add thanks for providing the correct info. I must admit that I was using info from an earlier Assembly Manual, which obviously was also incorrect for the 1972 model year. Once again, one can't ASSume anything.

72old$

OK guys, after some elbow work I was able to clean off the tag that had some undercoating on it. Now, what I am hoping for are bits of info such as color code #, etc. that could be gleaned off that tag, whatever that info may be.
It's surprising to me, that from the posts regarding the assembly order of my convertible, that it appears to me that Oldsmobile Division used a somewhat random and dubious system of labeling all their models. Let me inform you that the label on the driver's door indicates this car was built in May of '72.

For your interest, or not, I used to have (up until 1 1/2 years ago), a 1973 Chev Caprice Classic convertible with 454 and all the options, and that mine had been the 10th convert off the line from Wilmington. Apparently a total of 7339 converts had been built with various engines and options. No harshness intended, but it seems like Chev just had a better inventory system at this time.

But the line up info I was looking for is not a big deal. So I'm saying, don't sweat it. You fellas have already helped a great deal in helping me learn about my car. I appreciate your responses very much.

jaunty75

This is confirmed by the build date code just to the right of the left screw. It's hard to make out, but that looks like a "5" next to the "B", and that would indicate the second week of May.

Those other codes will give you other body info like color, type of seat, etc. Someone will be able to decode them.


Very nice looking car, by the way.

GAOldsman

Trim 347 = White Interior
Paint 18 = Antique Pewter Poly
B = Black Top
05B = 2nd Week May 1972
A65 = Bench Seat Custom Sport with Center Armrest and Bright Moldings

72old$

Thank you jaunty75 and GAOldsman for your input. GAO, your decode is impressive because although the top is now white, it did have a black one originally, which I found out only after I bought the car and from the previous owner's logs.

Your paint code 18 ( which is pewter) baffles me though, as the car appears that it was a medium blue originally. However, you could be right and I will inspect it more closely when I get a chance.

I would like to get the OLDSMOBILE ROCKET 350 decal for the air cleaner if anyone can point me in the right direction.

Thanks again for your help.

GAOldsman

Glad to help out.
For your decal http://www.fusick.com/default.htm or maybe http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...ain2.asp?cat=3 this is for Cutlass/442 but may be same I am not positive though.
For your paint per your trim tag http://www.tcpglobal.com/autocolorli...obile-pg01.jpg

jaunty75

GAOldsman is right about Fusick. You can get the "Rocket 350" air cleaner decal for $7.50. It's on page 35 of their current Big Car catalog.

The PROBLEM, though, is that you can't just buy the decal. Fusick has a minimum order policy of $25.00 and a minimum shipping/handling charge of $10.00. Now I'm like most people and can probably find another $17.50 worth of stuff to buy, but what it comes down to is that I have to spend a minimum of $35.00 to get a $7.50 decal.

This bothered me, so I never did it. I needed a "Rocket 455" decal for my '73, and I just decided to wait until the next time I attended Carlisle or some other large-enough swap meet where a decal vendor was likely to be there. Last month I went to the Spring 2011 Charlotte Auto Fair, a great event, and there was a decal vendor there (I can't remember who it was, but it was one of the biggies in the business), and I bought TWO decals of they type I needed. This vendor charged only $5.00 apiece for them with no minimum purchase or sales tax charged. I bought two so that if I messed up putting one on, something I've done before, I'd have an extra.