cdoering

How do you identify a true 1972 442 vs a clone when buying a car (so many sellers sat car is 442 these days)?

Do 1970 442 have 350 engiens or do they have to have 455?

Want to make sure what I'm getting when someone claims something.

thanks

svnt442

In 1972 the 442 became an option again. There are no identifiers on the car that will tell you if it came from the factory that way or not unless it's a W30. Then it will have a X in the VIN for the engine. You could have ordered it with any engine available that year including (I have heard) the 250 straight 6.
In 1970 all 442's came with a 455.

vette442

Look for stainless rocker trim - original 1972 W-29 cars won't have that.

Look for a 442 badge on the glovebox door - a 1972 W29 car won't have that.

Look for wide W-30 style stripes - there's a good chance that these were added to a non-W-29 car instead of just going with the correct original style pinstripes.

Look for rear lower control arms that are not boxed, with no sway bar. All W-29s had the HD rear suspension.

If the car has every option under the sun with no paperwork to back it up, chances are it wasn't born as a W-29.

Look for 442 emblems that are spaced apart widely on the fenders and decklid. Originals were scrunched up pretty closely and people mess these up all the time.

Is it a Supreme notchback hardtop? Also not an original W-29 car.

Look for evidence of filled Cutlass emblem holes on the fenders and the right side of the decklid.

I'm sure others will add more info.

Terry

joe_padavano

Olds did not offer a six cylinder engine in any car in the 1972 model year. The base engine in the A-body line was the 350 2bbl single exhaust, and yes, you could get a 1972 442 with this drivetrain. I actually owned a 72 with a 350 4bbl single exhaust (though it was immediately converted to duals). Also, the 1972 350 cars did NOT get the cut out rear bumper from the factory even when duals were ordered (though some were dealer installed). Only 455 cars got the cutouts.

72 w29 all green

No six cylinder engines for the '72 Oldses.

cdoering,

There are so many b.s. '72 442s in existence nowadays that, if i were in your shoes and dead-set on getting a '72 442, unless the car had an original invoice, build sheet, broadcast card, or an 'X' in the VIN (denoting W-30 engine), i'd stick with looking for '68-'71 442s.

alek72us

i think (not proven) 72 442"s had the black back rear view mirror all others had chrome back. and if it says 442 on the glove box its wrong 1972 didnt get that.

72 w29 all green

The second part is correct, but the black-backed rearview mirror wasn't just a '72 442 thing.

alek72us

what else did? i know cutlass and cutlass s were chrome in 72? unless its a half year thing.

joe_padavano

Lots of owners of 1972s replaced the glovebox emblem with a 1970/71 442 emblem. I certainly did on mine (back when you could still buy the emblems from the dealer). I also added a cutout back bumper to my 350 car. Again, lots of folks did this, so you really can't use the presence or absence of these items to prove anything.

oldspackrat

'71 & earlier cars had the stainless front rear view mirror, '72s got the black front. I would think maybe early '72 cars might have had the stainless front till they ran out & started using the black fronts?? Just a guess though.

vette442

You're correct that it's not ironclad proof on its own, but it raises the red flag of suspicion that you may be looking at a potentially over-done and incorrect clone.

Terry

MDchanic

As a non-442-owner, who has seen this discussion "a few" times before, let me just say:

In the absence of genuine (non-counterfeit) documentation, personal knowledge of the car since it was new, or an "X" in the VIN (for those few cars ordered with the W-30), there is no way to tell whether a well-made 442 clone is a clone.

If you can live with the gnawing uncertainty and you like the car, then buy it.
If not, then choose a different year.

- Eric

RetroRanger

my late 71 built 72 model year has an SS back rear view so you are correct...(mine is not a 442)

scott_442

How about a pic when the car was new? Would that be considered sufficient evidence of W-29 heritage?

72 w29 all green

Mine was built November '71 and is black, and again 442 had nothing to do with it.

MDchanic

You couldn't fake that picture!



However, a picture of an original blue 442 does not prove that the car in the picture is the seller's 442.

- Eric

Allan R

Not all 442's were X engine cars although only the W30's were X. Some 442's were U code, some were M code and some were H code. Either a factory build sheet (except Lansing) showing 442 order, broadcast card showing W29 option, or window sticker showing the option would really authenticate a 1972 442. That's what happens when you change a model to an option package.

1972 is one of the easiest years to clone as a 442. The seller really needs to either have the X VIN or some original documentation showing the pedigree. There were 2 W29 option packages and 1 W30 package in 1972.

Others have pointed out some of the 442 telltales. A few more include:
* only convertibles in the Cutlass Supreme lineup could be ordered with W30.
* black tail light surrounds - all others were silver
* black faux grills on the hood - W29 package. Not all 442's came with W25 hood.
* no deck lid spoiler - that option was discontinued in early 1971.
* W29's came with a hurst shifter
* Not all 455's (U code) will have dual cutout bumper - that was only included in the W30 package.
* W30 will have manual front disc brakes if ordered with a 4 speed. PB available with TH400 but loses the W30 328° cam.
* W30 will have aluminum intake manifold (auto or manual trans) that reads O-L-D-S W-455 in raised letters. (Not OLDSMOBILE as on 1970)
- sourced info from 1972 Dealer Ordering guide

MDchanic

Exactly. X = 442, No-X does not equal no-442.

Or should I say X = 442, Not-X ≠ Not-442.

- Eric

Allan R

King of the double negatives....confusing more than clarifying my friend.

VIN letter:
X = guaranteed 442 W30
H,J,K,U,M,V can still be 442 W29, just not W30
H,J,K,U,M,V can also just be Cutlass, Cutlass S and Cutlass Supreme (HT and vert) without being a 442

How's that?

MDchanic

Too many characters.

X = 442
H, J, K, U, M, or V = Anything (including 442)

- Eric

Allan R

Speaking of characters.....I'm including you.
Good summary.

MDchanic

I resemble that remark.

Thank you.

- Eric

GAOldsman

113 CS W30 Convertibles in '72

Allan R

I stand corrected. I'll fix that...

Octania

If you can live with the gnawing uncertainty and you like the car, then buy it.
If not, then choose a different year.
======================
If it looks like a duck
and walks like a duck
and quacks like a duck....

If a 1972 Olds has all the correct pieces and attributes that make a 442 from what would otherwise be an F85.... then how is it not a 442?

Whether the factory put those components together in that configuration back in '71-2, or Joe's Garage did it in 2012.... the same parts in the same configuration = the same result. Without proof to the contrary, such as a "W30" w/o the correct engine character in the VIN... it is what it is.

vette442

If it wasn't born a W-29, an assemblage of parts described above will not be as much of a 442 as the U Code W29 and W25 car in my garage with two 8x11 Fremont build sheets showing exactly how it was born. Authentic documentation and/or history are key.

Using the logic above, I have a complete original 1970 W31/M21 drivetrain in my garage with the balancer, intake and correct carb from a car that was totaled in 1975. I have the VIN tag too. If I drop that into a 1970 fastback and stick a W25 setup on it, I can guarantee that it would be under scrutiny even though you could not prove it isn't real - all the numbers match and the right parts are there. So how is it not a W-31?

MDchanic

That was kinda my point. Darned invisible :sarcasm: icon.

- Eric

ent72olds

Hey Allan, I've never heard of the black taillight surrounds....I see a lot of '72 442's with silver. I know it doesn't prove anything, but........

Allan R

Umm, because in 1972 the f85 was only offered as a 4 door sedan?

Would you believe black hood louvers then Erik? You're right - tail lights were silver. I got the tail lights mixed up with the 72 HO. But the 72 W29 does have the black faux louvers

kjr442

I know this is old, but I would also add that a 72 442 will have a built in regulator, not the fire wall mounted regulator. Also if it has the rally pack you will see the seat belt light on top of the dash. Correct me if I am off on this.

oldsmobiledave

The seat belt warning light will not be present for cars built in 1971 but mandatory for cars built after Jan 1 1972.

Allan R

That's not 100% true either. Since the 72 W29 could be ordered with any engine, it could also come equipped with a DN type alt that still has the firewall mounted regulator.

cdrod

I know some states don't issue titles, but here in Texas they do. Since 442 became an option package in '72, would the state issued title list the car as a Cutlass or Cutlass Supreme, or would it show 442?

joe_padavano

Unfortunately, it depends. The title SHOULD have been issued as the model indicated by the VIN, so it should not say "442", but when these cars were new and the title process was hand-typed, anything could have been done. Massachusetts called my 1968 442 (yes, with a 34487 VIN) a "Cutlass" on the title back in 1974. I wasn't too upset at the time, because that didn't hurt with the insurance company as far as premiums were concerned.

Mortimer

I own a 1972 Cutlass Supreme Convert with 442 option. I know the glove box emblem should say Cutlass Supreme but has been replaced with 442 badge. My Vin tells me the car was originally 350 cid with 4 bbl carb and single exhaust. I have dual exhaust with the cut out rear bumper. I am the 4th owner and have tracked back to find out the mods. I was told the dealership changed the exhaust, bumper and glove box tag.

It has matching numbers and everything works.

The car is my baby and gets treated as such. No matter its lineage, it is a 442 to me.

Attached is an excerpt from FAQ - 442 regarding 1972 models. I find it quite useful although I cannot verify its accuracy.

Koda

Joe, question for you. Base powertrain for 72 442 was the 350, but was it really the single exhaust one? I thought maybe the dual exhaust 350 was required just for the looks of the pipes?

On the title stuff, a 67 442 is listed as a Cutlass Supreme on title and registration on mine; I assume 72 is the same way.

pogo69

she's a 442 babe...unfortunately he isn't

Allan R

Koda, base engine is the H code 350 single exhaust (2bbl) except for the CS vert. Even the vert base 350 4bbl was a single exhaust. Any changes to factory issued dual exhaust required a change to the engine spec'd for the car.

Mortimer - the information in your pdf has a lot of errors.

Mortimer

Allan,

Thanks for pointing out there are errors on the FAQ excerpt. Can you elaborate? I am curious and want to know real information.

If you go to http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/of442.htm they are open for corrections and comments.

Koda

Ok, Allan, that makes sense. I saw a dual ex 4 bbl 350 convert 442 at a show recently. The letter code in the vin called for a 4bbl 350 dual ex engine, so it was not base engine.