Macadoo

Hi everyone!
I just bought a 71 Cutlass Supreme. This is my third Cutlass, fifth if we count the two my dad owned, but my first project. I'm really excited but a little overwhelmed. Mostly just bad timing because I'm a professor and this is the last week before school starts. Why couldn't I have found this car the FIRST week of summer? Lol.
So for the car; it's a 71 Supreme, one owner, 60,000 ish original miles. It's completely stock...like "grandma's car" stock.....and beige. Interior is a little rough but serviceable for now. Floor and trunk pans are clean with just a tiny bit of surface rust. Mechanically it needs brakes, shocks (maybe new springs), tie rods, etc. And a good tune up. Oh, and the tires are as bald as Kojak. The body is near perfect but it does have a small, but deep, rust spot about the size of my thumb behind each rear wheel mud flap. So that's top on the list of repairs.

cd42227d-7b96-4f18-9cba-da7e0756266b.jpg

Mine2.jpg

So I hope it's cool if I have a lot of questions. I'm a pretty fair mechanic but it's the aesthetics I'm not sure how to achieve. And if I may, I have a couple right off the bat.
1. How do folks get this jacked-up look? Because this is what I'm going for:
ideal.jpg

2. Do most folks go with the same size tires front and back? I understand the rotation advantage but I'm going for looks.
3. Should converting the front breaks to disc be high on the list? The plan is for this to be my daily driver but I'm not planning on any racing.

Well, that's it for now. I've been doing a lot of reading here the past week and this seems like the place to be.
-Mac

oldstata

Welcome ! Nice car

I think brakes from drum to disk is a call you will have to make I drove my 72 for five years with drums never missed a beat.
There are a few ways to get the stance you are looking for. lower springs in front or stiff shocks or air shocks or bags in the springs for the rear also stiffer spring rate will help
Tires will help with the stance look you are going for. wider in the rear is what I like . I have a 17x8 front and a 17x9.5 rear

Macadoo

Thanks Oldstata. Did you go from 14s to 17s? That seems like a big jump. Did you maintain the aspect ratio as well? I would think that would leave you with very little sidewall. Can I change the rear 14" wheels to 16 and leave the 14s in front? I should mention that I want the car to handle/steer well. I already have a jacked truck with oversize tires that's all over the road. I'd like the car to be tight.

oldstata

I wouldn't go with that set up
On my 72 I had 14s stock and put 14x7 in front and 15x9.5 in rear with air shocks see pic In my
865FFFBF-92BA-459D-A6A1-278188986CC9-4941-00006814C9FD9D5F.jpg
E7696FBE-B0C5-4E9C-BC86-0D3D30A675D6-4894-000068095023B5D8.jpg

On my 65 I went right to 17 I am running 205-50-17 front witch is 1/2 inch short of stock 14 totall and 255/55/17 rear witch is I think equal to the stock
photo-2.jpg

Macadoo

Oh, that's your ride. I've seen a pic on here. Nice! How's it handle? I think I'll go bags over the air shocks. I've read it's a better ride.

Macadoo

And I forgot to mention what a brutal decision this Cutlass was. I was completely torn between it and a 65 Jetstar 88 with perfect metal and 43k original miles. The Cutlass won out though because of the sentimental factor (my dad was a Cutlass man) and the Jetstar was a four door.

oldstata

I loved the way my 72 drove, but I don't Own it any more

My 65 improved with the wheels , currently I am under a frame off project kinda its been very slow lately with this I am doing jeep box steering upgrade tubular control arms springs motor trans and rear end so it will drive like a dream if I can get there

oldstata

Yes I am a cutlass guy too currently my wife found a delta 88 convert she wants pretty bad hope he has it this April do I can buy it for her

Macadoo

Uhh yeah, that sounds like a project and a half....wow. I'm anxious to get started but right now I'm up to my neck in class prep. last semester was 50+ hour weeks plus a lot of Saturdays. I'm using this Cutlass as a reason not to be a workaholic this year. Well, for the next few years.

oldstata

I forgot to say I bought my wheels but I get tires free so I mounted what I got when she on the road I want 235/55/front and 265/60/rear

And thanks

oldstata

What do you teach my wife is currently in school and a stay at home mom with four young kids at home I also have two older ones that I get 50% so the kids have helped with the project some I always for get to take pics so I run in have them pose for a few shots

oldcutlass

You can get the stance your looking for with station wagon or cargo springs in the back, an 15x8 or 8.5 wheel (the picture shows a 15x10) with P275-60-15 tires and heavy duty shocks. In the front you can get a bit heavier spring, run a 15x7 wheel with P215-70-15 or P225-60-15 tires.

Nothing wrong with drum brakes they stop fine under normal conditions. You can convert to disc down the road if you like.

Macadoo

Yes Oldcutlass, I saw your post about the wagon springs. Should be easy enough to find...I hope. So you're saying the picture of the black Cutlass has the 15x10 wheels? Does it also have 275-60-15s? Do you know the owner or know about this car?

Oldstat, I teach painting, drawing, and sculpture at our local community college. It's a lot of work but I love it. I just finished installing our first foundry last semester and we poured aluminum and bronze. It was a blast.

oldcutlass

I don't know the owner just looking at the picture. The rears are very deep with no step, just a guess. They might be 15x8 or 8.5 on that car. Mine are 15x8.5's.

Oldsguy

I had an Oldsmobile belt buckle in brass that I purchased when overseas while I was still in the Navy. I wanted to have a duplicate made for my son and had some difficulty finding someone that could caste one, specifically because of regulations concerning personnel and environmental safety (so I was told). Is this true? Or perhaps it was only in the Kansas City area and perhaps is a regional thing. Or perhaps I was simply given a line of ....... you know.

I would think with your experience as an artist you will be able to hit on a good aesthetic for your car. Personally I like the original look of lots of rubber on the sidewall which precludes going with larger rims and lower profile tires; as you said it changes the aspect ratio quite a bit. You can achieve height either way, with wheel or with rubber. With a combination of suspension modification you are there. Consider how the wheel will look in the wheel well opening if you jack up the rear too much with suspension modification.

It will be interesting to see how your car turns out when you finish it. Welcome to C.O.

Sampson

Welcome to CO. Fine looking Cutlass project you are bringing to us. Looking at your pics it seems the car already has a nice rake to it. Not sure if it is the angle of the pic or what. Tires and wheels may be all that is needed to set it off. There are a lot of choices out there so look at a lot of pics and set ups to figure out what you want before you buy. As Eric pointed out the black car and Eric's car both have a lot of back spacing which gives them a period correct appearance. The newer 17" wheels have different backspacing and give a more modern look. Both look great it just depends on what you are going for. Just my opinion but you get more bang for your buck with tire and wheel upgrades than anything else you can do to your car. I have seen total Junkers with a great looking set of tires and wheels look better than a car with a new paint job and crappy scraped up hubcaps and worn out white walls. Jmo. Have fun.
Steve

oldstata

X2
I listed several ways to accomplish this hope I didn't lead him to think you needed to do alll of the options

Macadoo

Lol, no Oldstata. I'm getting a feel for it now. The car does have a pretty good rake (as you call it), that jacked up look. If I take it higher, it won't be much.
Could someone explain "back spacing"? I'll look it up, of course, but I'm still going to ask :-) Is it that the point where the hub bolts onto the wheel is set further inside the wheel so wide tire/wheels don't stick out of the quarter panel too much? Just a guess.
I'm finding lots of wheels (some with rubber for better or worse) on Craigslist. I'm leaning towards those Cragars, like the ones on the black Cutlass above. Another nostalgic move. My best buddy in HS had a set on his 67 XR7.
Oldsguy, I would need to have some context about your requested cast. Was it a school environment, something else? I know I have to be very careful about making casts for personal use. Budget reasons mostly. If I'm doing a pour with my students and I supply my own bronze, it wouldn't be a problem. But if I fire it up just for me and a buddy, then we have a problem. My furnace probably sucks a whole winter's worth of gas in one day, so I can see their point. Now, one needs to know just how to "frame" things. If I got together some local artists (non students, no tuition) for a pour and called it "community outreach", I could make it fly...and maybe get a pat on the back. Wow, when did I get good at playing "the game"? Lol.

oldstata

Your grasp on back spacing is correct its how the center the middle of the rim I am sure others can give you detailed how it works ,


Rims and the air bags that sit in the spring will look killer
Does the car have a posi ? Or the peg leg

Macadoo

Yup, I get it. So I found a pair of new 15x9 Cragars with decent 235-60 rubber for $175. But he doesn't say if they have backspacing. I hope they're legit. The 235s sound a little narrow for 15x9, don't they? But still, for that price I could make it work until I get two more and buy new rubber.

Macadoo

Oh heck no, this machine is completely stock. Posi would be cool but I'm okay with limited slip. I hear it's better in rain and snow and I plan on driving this bad boy! Can I put a chrome cap on a limited slip pumpkin or is that "cheating"? Hey, buy the way, anyone know the stock gears for this car. Something like 3.08:1?

oldstata

Mine were 2:56 I think
235 are not bad at all the should be pretty flush with the rim if all four are like this you could buy 255/for the rear to give the tire hugging the rim look like the black car in your pic
Never mind I skimmed past the two part st that price I think your real close to what they charge per wheel

Macadoo

2.56:1? Well, it was the 70s. Emission standards, gas shortages. Ugh. Oh well, should be good on the interstate.
The wheels look excellent in the photos but I can't really see the tread. Might be worn out. The ad says "decent shape". So far he hasn't replied to me text.

Sampson

I have owned several sets of Cragar s/s wheels over the years. Get the seller to show you close up pics of the wheel centers where the lugs bolt up. The chrome typically starts blistering and peeling in this area even if the rim chrome looks good. If they are 15x8, 9 or 10 they have to have offset backspacing or as we said in the old days reversed. In the pic of the black car the rears are offset with backspacing and the fronts are not. My guess is the fronts are probably 15x 6 or 7 non reversed the rears are 15x 8-10 reversed.

Macadoo

Sampson, good to know, thanks. And thanks for the estimate on the black car's wheels. Very helpful.

oldcutlass

You won't like the P235-60's in the rear, too small. Here is an explanation on wheel dimensions from another post. You can go to the Cragar website to get dimensions of each wheel.

Macadoo

Oldcutlass, excuse my language but this is badass! Did you convert a vinyl top to a hardtop by leaving the trim and painting a different color than the body? Very impressive either way.

Macadoo

Oh yeah, i know, way too narrow. But the price is right and I can go wider when I find two more since they're 9 inch wide wheels. But I'd like to know the backspacing.

oldcutlass

The previous owner did the roof, it's pearl white with some awesome pinstripes. Did you see the album of what the car looked like when I got it?

Here's the list of Cragar wheels, I don't see a 9":

http://www.cragarwheel.com/images/me...P_POLISHED.pdf

Macadoo

I saw your photobucket album but don't remember early pics.
Weird that 9s aren't listed. Seems sketchy, doesn't it? Here's the ad:
http://chambana.craigslist.org/pts/3895129261.html

Macadoo

Oh...wow...that's quite an unusual color. Lol, it kind of grows on you though. But I think you made the right choice.

oldcutlass

Thank you on the color. I think years ago there were some 9's, so maybe over the years they cut back on all the sizes available now. I'm weary of buying used wheels as I almost got burnt with some Welds years ago. They were out of round and would not balance. Just an FYI.

Macadoo

Yeah, I had wondered about that. Kind of hard to check for round by just looking. It's a risk I suppose, but the savings.....

oldstata

I like the baby moons lol cragers look good from pics hopefully they look as good in person

Macadoo

If he ever gets back to me. They may have gotten snatched up already.

Olds_71_442

Not sure if anyone answered this yet, but heavier springs will achieve that look or air shocks. Heavier springs, like from a B Body car.

I like that look, too. Also, I like having wider tires in the back than in front. The old school look. With the white letters out.

Macadoo

Yeah, I'll have a look at the springs. I think mine are in pretty good shape so I may go with bags. I love the old school look too, but to me it's just "school". It'll never get old, lol.
Does anyone know if increasing the height in back, wide tires in back, narrower tires n front, etc. will effect the steering? I would like this car to be tight on the interstate. I have a 14 mile drive to school and I'd rather it not be a white-knuckle drive.

oldcutlass

If I were you, after all is said and done, get a good front end alignment.

oldstata

Yes it does affect steering !
I will need to go to my steering book to see how cant remember exactly
If you want tight I would do the jeep grand c box and lowering the car improves this too
Also tubular upper control arms allow more positive caster witch will improve this as well

oldstata

Okay I believe this is what it does
Higher in the back affects more - caster witch affects stability and steering wheel return lower in the rear affects +castor and steering wheel return
So if you raise the rear make sure you have the alignment guy being your castor positive to compensate