rcktdoc

I suppose you could,but I wouldnt.Thanks for the compliment.

Greg

Joffroi

While the kids were napping I was able to work on getting the gas tank down. I ended up having to use a hack saw because the nuts were rusted to badly. About 30 minutes of slowly but steady "hacking", I got the tank down. Unfortunately, I didn't find the build sheet. Oh well. I didn't get much of a chance to poke around because my kids work up (dropping it probably took around an hour total) so I don't really know yet what could be causing the leak of gas when I drive but hopefully tomorrow I'll have time to check the seals and clean off the outside of the tank. For now I just covered all the openings to make sure nothing got in the tank and I'll check it out another day.

Below are pictures. You can see in the last one where the gas was making its trail down.

LNx7ONB.jpg

SSR4o18.jpg

5GWXLji.jpg
so must rust!

Allan R

Good job getting it out. It looks worse than I thought it would be, so I'm guessing a new tank is in order? I replaced my tank with a Spectra Premium one (made in Canada - sold throughout USA for less than in Canada - go figure) and the quality is exceptional. Fuel sender with return line - another inexpensive part that should be replaced. In Line Tube price on the gas tank is 169 + shipping. ILT GM34C

For the gas tank pad, I'd recommend Patton Glade's product (70Post on this site). His tank pads are bang on perfect fits. I bought one for my car and it was a breeze to install.

Joffroi

I think the tank actually looks worse in picture then in person. I'm going to buy an angular grinder and go ahead and try to gently sand it to really see what I'm working with. Any recommendation on grinders or sanding wheels? A little time doing this isn't going to hurt anything, essentially if I just order a new tank like you suggested anyway. Thanks for the links Allan and the contact for Patton.

hookem horns

The tank is pretty thin (thinner with rust) so a grinder may be too aggressive and cause sparks (obvious issues with that). Use an old fashioned wire brush by hand or one of the wire cups you use with a drill, followed by the rust reformer product of your choice.

If you need one for other jobs, cheapo grinders from Harbor Fright work fine for a weekend warrior like me. Just understand its disposable.

barnfind

Brass

Allan R

^^^ This. I'd also take the tank down to a coin wash and spray the inside with soapy water and then rinse 'just to be sure' when you're doing the clean up.

FWIW, there are tank coatings you can use on the inside, but going that route means you're likely going to spend more $$$ restoring/preserving the old tank than just replacing it. I still have my OEM tank out behind the shed and it's not in terrible shape. But it was leaking - likely from a vent. I could have taken it in for its second repair, but after 42 years I don't have any issues with just giving it a new tank.

Keep in mind that when you dedicate time to your project, IMO it should be productive time. If you're going to re-use the existing tank, it's time well spent. If you're going to replace it anyway? Find something else on the car that needs attention and focus on that.

Joffroi

Great information guys. I really appreciate it. Suggestions like the above are really going to help an inexperienced guy like me out!

With my experience level, I don't think I can consider any time I put to it a waste. Essentially everything I do to it will be another thing learn so worst case I have a part I won't use but another lesson learned.

I hope you guys don't get sick of my post and what some might consider incredibly novice questions. I can't say how much I appreciate the community on this forum and all the help I get here.

I'm really looking forward to this project and the journey.

Allan R

Totally understand about the doing and learning. That's a great experience and it adds to your inventory of first hand knowledge. My thought was a sidebar just in case you started getting caught up in the dreaded MAW's.

Love it - another 'journey' with Olds. Best part is the road never really ends!

barnfind

I take any old gas tank I plan on re-using down to the local radiator shop. They boil it out, check for any leaks. Seal the inside, and I coat the exterior. A new sending unit and pad., and your all set to go....

Joffroi

So I got a little brass hand wirebrush today, one small enough to get in some of the little areas. So yea.... won't be trying to save this gas tank. The good news is I found where the leak is coming from. There was a HUGE crack.

NOGG3Bm.jpg

So with all this being said, I wanted to just double check my shopping list with you guys. I might as well replace everything in the gas area. Recommendations on where to get the sending unit from?

1) New Tank - GM34C Spectra Tank - $143 with free shipping on .
2) Fuel Sending Unit - OIFG91B - Best location to buy from??? $59.
3) Gas tank padding - cost? - Need to reach out to 70Post
4) The gas tank straps - $0 - hopefully restore mine
5) 3/8" fuel tubs and misc. nuts and bolts

Anything else?

sammy

Suggestion....replace tank straps....
How will you vent the tank?

Joffroi

Yea, I probably will replace them. Suggestions on a vendor?
My current tank just had two tubes bending up along the tank that were just open. I was planning on doing the same with new tubes.

allyolds68

I doubt the sending unit is bad unless it was under water. They're pretty well protected in the tank. You might want to replace the sock. They generally disintegrate.


A lot of people recommend that you replace everything but it's all the little stuff that adds up fast. It's not a hard part to replace later as long as you don't have a full tank of gas. You can also bench test it fairly easily. MDchanic has a good thread somewhere on how to do it.


68 just vented the tank to the air with a little fitting on the end with a foam element in it. I think Fusick has it but it doesn't come with the foam in it. I just mounted the vent high in the wheel well and haven't had a problem. There isn't any canister behind the seat like the 70's cars.

Joffroi

Thanks for the info. I'll order that tank for sure now (don't think I can beat that price with free shipping) and then take everything else apart and see what else looks to be needed replaced.

sammy

Just to add to what Mike has said......I ran the vent line back thru the frame and attached it to the tank neck with a vented cap on the end....that way I can easily check to make sure it is not plugged with crud.....

Eddie Hansen

That isn't a crack that is missing metal from rust, I have read and reread this thread and bit my tongue, because my own resto is taking far too long, but it looks to me the more you look into this car the less there is of it, seriously this is why they call it cancer it is being eaten from within, and you have not even gotten to the body, I worry there will be no good news there not when the whole seam of the gas tank is gone.

Did you get a frame yet? I hope you would seriously consider looking for a donor car, as was suggested, buying a gas tank now to me seams premature, I have the original one from my 69 you are welcome to it for free but shipping would be pricey

I know not only are you financially invested in this car but emotionally invested as well, but you need to do a reality check, and get a calculator, start adding up , the frame, gas tank, all suspension components, floor pans, trunk floors, drop downs, quarters etc and god knows what and you will see a donor is the only realistic way to go, sad but true, and there is no way to sugar coat it, you will turn your dream into a nightmare, you need to be honest with yourself, this isn't a restore while you drive type of deal frustration is the number one killer of projects, and we lose another guy from this hobby,

If that Texas car was as solid as it looks you will be thousands of dollars ahead especially as you are learning as you go, and will be paying to have the body switched over, which as was said when you go to lift it you will find more issues, body bolt problems etc so redo your assessment, of this car, have a pro and con list and put honest figures in each column it is not quitting it is a tactical retreat, regroup and attack again from an improved position,

Trust me I am in no way trying to discourage you, I am just offering my opinion as someone who has been where you are, and didn't listen to the same advice until I already wasted a ton of money sorry if i am long winded I have actually been thinking about your plight for a couple of days now

Joffroi

I definitely appreciate the advice and input from your own personal experience. The only reason I'm OK with getting the tank is that it is a relatively cheap price to have my car running without leaking anything.

I think the deal I'm getting on the convertible donor frame is good. Good enough to where if I start taking apart my 442 and really seeing that its just "gone" and a donor is necessary I should be able to re-sale the frame without much of a loss.

As you mentioned, once I start taking things apart and REALLY seeing what I'm going to need, I'm going to do exactly what you said; start with a calculator and get some numbers down.

I have no doubt its going to be a "scary" project. However, I will try to be as realistic as possible about it. Once I get my numbers sorted, if getting a donor car is the only way, I will definitely just patiently wait for one.

Eddie Hansen

Cool beans bro, you can also move the tank into whatever you decide to later anyway, but I was thinking a donor might have a great tank and you save the 150 or whatever frog skins, this is the kind of calculations to do to weigh the pros and cons I hear you on having it mobile too so up to you, I dig the 68 drop tops too, I wish you smooth sailing, but I am telling you to pack life preservers too water is going to get deep: :

dads72

Hey - I am a younger guy doing a resto like yours as well. I just picked up a vert frame from a 69 Olds in unbelievable condition about an hour or two from KC on the Nebraska/Kansas border. This guy has the motherload so let me know if you want his information. I am at about the same stage as you.

Good luck!

Ben

Joffroi

Would love to find out more... PM sent.

Joffroi

Big day for getting "new" toys. I ordered a new gas tank for Amazon. I had $15 credit and it was free shipping so I was pleasantly surprised to see it there. Total came to $140.84 and it looks awesome!

71kXxhz.jpg

With my budget and convenience factor, I went ahead and purchased the frame from a 1970 Cutlass convertible I found. I think the deal was too good to pass. It looked MUCH better in person then in the pictures as well. It really looks great IMO and the sellers were incredibly nice people. All the measurements seem to match up along with the frame being square. The couple had a nice W30, SX, and other awesome Oldsmobiles in their collection and were just a pleasure to talk to.

I have a really busy schedule, but hopefully I can get around to cleaning my gas tank straps and getting the new tank installed this weekend. From there, I'll need to dismantle the donor chassis so it doesn't take as much room in the garage. Its starting to get a little cluttered in here.
tdeabxI.jpg

dads72

Looks great J...good call on the frame. The new tank looks great...do you know if you have to coat the interior or exterior of it at all?


We dropped mine this weekend and its a bit rusty but in good structural shape. I have heard of guys buying new units and having them rust if they don't coat them.


Ben

Allan R

If it's a Spectra Premium tank, all it needs is installation. The tank is already coated outside.

Yellowstatue

The brake flex line is in a different position on the '68 frame. More to the centre. The other frame has the hose mounted about twelve inches outboard.

Joffroi

Little update:
Painted my straps, got the new tank, and went ahead and decided to use my same sending unit since it seemed to be fine. I obviously replaced the bolts holding the tank in since I had to saw the original ones in.

Got the tank in, strapped and everything and I put about a 1/4 - 1/2 a gallon of gas in the tank. I plugged my battery back in (disconnected it at the start of this project). The moment of truth.....

1) First problem: I just hear a click. Battery sounds dead. Not sure how since I disconnected it but oh well. Trickle charger for that.

2) Second problem: Fuel gauge goes way back past F. Circuit must not be right. I did screw the ground back in the original spot and also connected the wire that is near the gas cap. Is it possible my wire that goes over the tank is making the false ground? Any ideas? This is the first Olds I've had with a working gas gauge so I was really bummed to see this problem

3) When I pumped the pedal, I no longer saw gas squirting through the carb. Is there a chance I just didn't put enough gas in the tank? What is the minimum the tank needs for the sending unit to actually get some? is one of my hoses possibly not tight enough?

Let me know ideas, I guess I'll be a gas tank dropping expert by the end of this :-)

Allan R

Fuel gage pegged means it's not properly grounded. Clean the ground connection and try again. There is a second connection clipped to the DS inner quarter. Make sure that connector is tight too.

1/4 to 1/2 gallon of gas in the bottom of the tank isn't going to cut it. Try at least 2 or 3 gallons. Also, the line from the tank to the fuel pump may be empty. You need to crank the engine to engage the fuel pump, THEN press the accelerator pedal to get gas squirting in the carb.

Joffroi

Wow, I've been crazy busy but I finally found some time to play around with my car! I re-attached the ground but still get the way past E. I tried to just touch the cord against other parts of the base for testing other ground and had my wife read the gauge but it never changed. I don't remember seeing a second ground wire when taking out my tank. Do you have more information about it or where its going to connect to the other end.
I'm wondering if I should just drop my tank again and just completely replace the ground wire.

The good news is though, I was able to start the car and let it run idle for a bit. Was great to hear the sound of that again!

Allan R

Hopefully you didn't knock the ground wire off when you were positioning the tank.

Also look in the trunk (drivers side) and wiggle the multi pin pigtail connection to the trunk harness. It's clipped to the upper part of the inner quarter structure. Sometimes there's corrosion there that will peg the fuel gage too.

Joffroi

Do you have more detail on where this second ground is suppose to connect to on either end? I'm almost positive I didn't see any additional wires. Although my current ground didn't look bad, as I mentioned since now all the bolts are new, it shouldn't be that hard to drop the tank again and put a new wire and connectors there. Below are pictures of the ground I for sure know just to avoid confusion.

Only see the one ground....
WQbC0hX.png

My sending unit. The wire that goes to the trunk connector is disconnected in this picture because I was looking at the connections. Its definitely plugged in on my car now. The circles just show what I might just redo. Get new wires and connections.
nWRIcf9.jpg

I'll also take a look at those trunk connectors you are talking about.

allyolds68

As mentioned above, MDchanic has a really good thread about troubleshooting and fixing sending units and gauges somewhere on ClassicOlds. I used it when I was having problems. When I'm doing this stuff I like to run jumper wires directly from the gauges to the sending unit. It makes it easy to isolate which side of the harness is giving you the issue.


The ground wire (the ONLY ground wire) you're showing get's attached to the gas tank/trunk braces that are welded to the trunk pan. It's all in the assembly manual. Print out a copy and keep it next to your bed. You'll have it memorized in no time:

Allan R

Sorry, I should have said sender wire instead of ground. The picture of your ground looks really good. Just make sure where it's connected to the bottom of the car is clean where it's screwed in.

Was the fuel gage working ok before you dropped the tank and replaced it?

Joffroi

Fuel gauge was working great before I made the swap. This is actually the first Oldsmobile I've owned that had a fully accurate fuel gauge which is why I'm going to be determined to get it fixed.

When I was dropping the tank, the connection of the ground to the underside of the trunk broke due to rust. I soldered a new connection to it and put it in the same place with the same screw. When I get a chance, I'm going to ground the sending unit wire just to make sure the gauge goes to 0 there, and then I'll try a few more ground errors. If that doesn't work, I'm going to re-do the ground wire just to get a clean one in.

Allan R

Ok, if the gage was working fine to start with, the problem is only where you were working on the car, not the gage or wiring to the rear. You may have stretched or even broken the continuity in the ground wire. I agree that replacing it may be the best idea.

oldcutlass

Going past E = shorted wire from gauge to ground, going past F = open circuit between sender and gauge.

Joffroi

Good news. Drop the tank again and completely redid the ground wire. Was able to hook it back up and get and got my gas tank completely working again. Gauge seems to be accurate and more importantly, no leaks anywhere. I was able to take it around the block a couple times and it was glorious. New wires, new tank, new tubes, another thing learned.

The next issue I have to deal with is my tires. They were made in 1999. I've taken them to NTB and they gave them the re-seal treatment (which was free I want to add), but they still lose air after a day or two of just sitting. They just said they were rough.

Whats your recommendation on the best route to go?

Option 1: 2 tires now seem OK. NTB could sell two slightly larger tires that I would put on the rear of my car for $64/tire.
Option 2: Shop around for maybe a set of RIMs/ Tires on the local CL.
a) http://kansascity.craigslist.org/pts/4482177377.html
b) http://kansascity.craigslist.org/pts/4483576927.html
Option 3: ???

Since its running and I have a donor frame now, I'll really need tires to just get it the 10 miles to this shop I'm going to get quotes for on doing the swap.

HVRYwWU.jpg

vette442

Get exactly the right tires that you want in the exact size you want on tirerack.com or discounttiredirect.com for a lower cost and with no sales tax, then take them to NTB if that's your best tire shop option. NTB has a deal with both of those places and will mount and balance them very reasonably. I've had many good tire buying experiences doing this - with 8 cars, I rotate through a lot of sets in a 5-10 year period.

I quit buying tires at NTB since I always felt I ended up paying more than I should have when all was said and done, plus they seem to have a 2 hour minimum wait policy to get anything done. I'm not okay with that when other independent tire shops near me can knock those jobs out in 20 minutes...

Terry

allyolds68

Everyone on here is going to tell you the sky is falling, those tires are too old and unsafe to go around the block with. I think you inspect them and take them 10 miles leaving plenty of room between you and traffic.


Neither of those listings on CL are worth pursuing. The rims are too small on both and the tires are too small on the one. Save your money and buy 15x7 or 15x8 rims when you can.


Tires are the last thing you need to worry about before you do the frame

Allan R

Part 1 of many - completed. Good job.

They're leaking for a reason. Check the sidewalls or tread grooves for cracking or whether they have a nail or something in the tread. If you plan to use the existing tires for rollers, you're fine. Even for light in town traffic they should be ok. Not sure if I'd trust them for sustained high speed use though. You're in a much better position to see the overall condition of the tire than us. Hey, they're 15 year old tires - no guarantee on anything with them.

Joffroi

An owner of a local restoration shop was able to stop by my house to look at the frame and 442 and really get down to numbers on things. The owner said it was great to see a complete car (trim, uncracked dash, etc) but said if I wasn't going to be able to do a lot of work on my own, it will be a hefty penny to get it restored. This is not new news to be and I've been really thinking about it the past month and I think I may just have to part may ways with this one. This can be a great project, but with 2 small kids and limited time, just maybe not the right one for me. I'll think about it more but I think it will be smarter for me to part ways with this one and maybe use my "Oldsmobile fund" for a more restored car. Roller coaster of emotions...