Started on this today. Got it pressure washed then off the trailer and onto the lift before the tires went flat

. Not sure how many pictures to post, but I do have a few questions.



I am not sure what this is on the oil pan, the 58 olds I worked on did not have this, nor the 57 Buick.

Also I found these in the trunk, PO said they were there when he got the car. Worth anything or paper weights?

Except for the battery tray, no cancer I can find just some surface rust here and there. I am ordering the manuals and tomorrow I will inspect the brakes. Thanks for looking

 

Look the rocker arms and shafts over closely for looseness and slop. They're worth hanging on to if they're in good shape.

Oldsmobile changed compression ratio with pistons instead of combustion chamber so the 23 heads can be used on any 61-64 394.

The protrusion on the oil pan is there to add an extra quart of oil capacity. I've seen them on both Starfire and non-Starfire 394 so don't know why some engines got them and others didn't.

 

Nice. After seeing these pictures you done good picking it up I believe. Be sure to have somewhat of a plan before digging to deep. For me, I would clean everything as it is and not replace anything other than what you have to so that it will run and drive. After it will run and drive then you can asses where to go from there.

I have a lot of experience with resurrecting cars that have sit for decades without restoring them. "typically" the car was parked because there was a problem they never did get around to fixing and you need to find that problem if you can. You will almost certainly need to replace or rebuild the wheel cylinders and the master cylinder but I would try to get it running first. Often times, it is not much more than cleaning the points in the distributor, unhook the fuel line to the fuel pump, Squirt about 1/2 cut of gas down the vent hole on top of the car to fill the bowl, dribble a little down the intake and see if it will fire. You could go farther with it before hand but if there is a rod knocking then you at least saved the time and effort of all the other stuff.

I have always wondered myself what that is on the 394 oil pan. Hopefully someone will know.


EDIT.... before cranking I would pull the valve covers off and be sure it don't have any stuck valves. Tap each one with a rubber mallet and see if it pops open and closed. You can hear each one is fine if they are. Squirt a little oil inside the valve springs also.

 

Congratulations, car looks to be in great shape. Clean up replace as necessary and go shape.

Cars are only truly original once in their lives... Enjoy !

 

The protrusion as there on '57 thru "62 engines to add extra oil capacity.
In '63 the oil pan was re-designed larger, so there was no need for it.

 

What a beautiful machine!

 

Thank you all for the feedback and advice. I got the drums off no problem, the shoes look new, I have wheel cylinders and hoses on order from Rock Auto, forgot to order the master but I may have one, need to look for that and a spring. The wheel bearing are well lubed and look great. Drums? I am not sure, what is the max I can get away with? These are prestamp that I can see. They are running 55 to 120 over. No scoring, I am thinking of going with them.


This is what was on the floor after sitting on the rack over night. Big splash is from top of P/S box, looks like shaft seal, small splash is from trans rear seal.



The pan is not leaking but has a repair.

Going to go with it unless I have to pull the motor then I will see.
Thanks again for the input.

 

Dang! I forgot what a pain it is to find 14 inch tires. I would like to use these hubcaps that came with the car, although I was told they are not the proper originals for a 62 Starfire. One is a but scuffed up but over all they do not look too bad. But tires? And I need 5, Cokers has the closest for proper overall diameter which I am told is 28.6 inches. Still looking.

And can anyone tell me what this plate is for? It was in the trunk. Thank you for looking.

 

 

The drum diameter limit for presently available shoes is 11.090
However, in the past oversize linings were available that allowed larger drum diameters.

 

For 14 inch tires ;

https://dbtires.com

Call them direct for custom sidewalls.

 

With the brake shoes good don't worry about the drums. Just replace the wheel cylinders and master cylinder and send it. Hopefully the lines will come out without twisting off. Sometimes I have to heat them just slightly. It don't take much on the brake lines.

I would unhook the lines and blow air through the lines. Then flush with brake clean and blow them out again. Maybe 2 or 3 times. That old fluid can get really nasty and needs flushed out.

 

Got any other pics of the Lionel layout?

 

Thank you for the advice. I got the wheel cylinders off, no problem, no rust at all. Except for dirty the brake lines look new. I will do as you recommend and flush the lines with brake clean. And then flush them again. Pulling the master cylinder after lunch. Going with the drums as is.

 

Good move.
The Olds "Mexican hat" drum design was one of the best.
Only the Buick and Pontiac finned aluminum drums were marginally better.

 

Continuing on, wonder if I should start a new thread "What is the weirdest thing you found in your new purchase" but I will just keep it here,
I was cleaning and stripping the trunk, going to try to save and use all the original carpet and cardboard pieces, they don't look too bad...


and found this...

I had to put a piece of wood in there to spread the fender apart, I was hoping for lots of money! Right, or a build sheet? No such luck, it was a checkbook, the last entry was october of 1964. I am guessing it may have belonged to the original owner but I wonder how it got there. I dated the car from the trim tag, it was built the fifth week of September, the plates are 63 so I am guessing it was sold in 63.
The bad news, hole in the oil pan and I found cancer in one spot. Guess I will try to remove the pan for proper repair. PO had put a screw in the hole with lots of epoxy, the pan was smacked and I got it pulled out then his epoxy fell apart.


The last item for today is the carpet, I would like to keep them, I think they are original but pretty ratty. The foot rests look very nice though, I think I read where they can be incorporated into a new carpet? I will look back through the threads. Oh, I got three windows to work but not the top, it tries but no go. I do not hear a relay clicking but waiting for my manuals to get here before I go any deeper. Thanks for looking....

 

I would for sure keep the carpet from what I am seeing. I would pull the seats out and the carpet out and really wash it good. I do it in the hot summer. I will wash them with dish soap and really make a mess of things. It take a lot of water to flush it all back out. Let it dry really good int he sun and flip it over and dry another day int he sun till totally dry. If it is faded use SEM flexible paint to go over it in thin coats and work it in while the paint is wet. You would be surprised how well it will look. Nothing fits like the original carpet so if it can be saved do it.

 

Thank you for the reply, it is a thought, when I get the seats out I will post a few pics of the carpet, a bit ragged in some spots.

 

If the bad areas are where a floor mat would cover it I would find an original floor mat to hide the bad spot. If visible areas are worn out and falling apart, you may need to change it. If that front is as good as that back section, it would clean up really good.

 

Love these build threads!

As far as the windows and top not operating, clean all the old hard grease from every moving part and regrease. I got my power seat and wiper motor working just doing that.
Looking forward to your progress

 

Thanks for the feedback Mikeyt, I have been working on the control arm bushings, finally got them done and arms are installed, waiting on spring insulators to finish that part of reassembly. Got the gas tank back in and new flex lines. I got the top pump out when I disconnected the hoses, they are packed solid, and so is the pump, so I got them and new cylinders on order, the original cylinders has something growing out of the top. I will snap some pics tomorrow. New dual master cylinder on order with booster.
Thanks again,
Steve

 

I'm switching to a dual master also. Have the parts just haven't done it.
Control arm bushings also.
Maybe I'll get some inspiration here and get off my tail and get back wrenching.

 

Nice work sir! Beautiful Starfire.

 

Yea those control arm bushing were a pain, but they are done.
Today I finished R&R the flex fuel line from the frame to tank and frame to pump, both 3/8 supply and 1/4 return line. The fuel tank is in with a new sender unit and of course as it is empty it reads 1/4 full. Figures.
I removed the fuel pump to rebuild. Started to remove the brake booster and see that two of the bolts are under the carpet, so, I started on removing the carpet. First the consol, as the shifter was broken and froze, it would not move out of park, getting the console out was a pain, But it is out, needs some TLC, it is a saver but I need a shifter, This one is actually broken.
So there is nothing in the 61 manual or the 62 supplement about the console or shifter, although the shifter is the same design that was on my 62 cutlass and that is in the 62 supplement.
And some rust on the floor pans, worse than I hoped but only one tiny pin hole I could find. Wire bushed it all and will por 15 it and call it good.
The carpets? Still undecided, pretty rough but I will clean them up and see if I can save them. I think it is a long shot.
Thanks again for the feedback and advice.

 

You can try cleaning the carpet, but they will look dingy and worn. Its a whole lot easier to order the carpet and put it in now.

 

If you go with new carpet, try to save the original mats that are sewn on the carpet.
They are not being re-produced.
They can be cleaned and re-juvinated with upholstery dye.
Then they can be sewn back on by an upholstery shop.

 

You can order the carpet from ACC and order it without the heel pad that way you can install the original mats. The mats are 62 only as the design changed every year. You can glue the mats on once you are sure the new carpet is installed correctly, front piece will be a one piece that will require cutting and fitting to the console. Check around and see if some one local has a heavy enough sewing machine with a deep throat that can resew the mats on. I found a guy who did boat canvas repair with a machine that would allow him to sew the mats to new carpet.
With the carpet removed is a good time to find the floor plugs for seat belts for the front seats and the stamped markings for the rear if you want to add them.
Steve

 

Thank you all again for the feedback and advice. Still undecided on the carpet.
Today I broke an exhaust flange stud on the left manifold. Removed the manifold to drill it out and try and remove the other two without breaking them.
Disassembled and cleaned the fuel pump, kit on order.l
Disassembled and cleaned the console. It was pretty filthy and has a crack. But it is a keeper. I will reassemble tomorrow.
I am soaking and trying to unfreeze the shifter and see if I can repair it.

 

You are really working fast.
It makes me tired just watching you work.

 

I'm not going to offer advice- you got this! But I'm watching with interest... it's a great car.

 

So much fun doing this stuff.. you are doing a great job. Looks like a very solid car.. you got to shake your head at the screw and jb weld job on the pan. But hey it worked for a long long time. If it wasn’t for baling wire, duct tape and jb weld **** wouldn’t be running back in the day..😝

 

A bit more progress made the last few days.
Reassembled the console, ordered the map box.
Rebuilt and installed the fuel pump. Cleaned the fuel filter housing and put in a new filter. I will install inline filter before the pump.
The fuel gauge was reading 1/4 with an empty tank and a new sender unit. So I pulled the sender unit again and opened the rheostat and carefully bent the arm so the sensor would be at the empty area, it was 1/4 way up the windings. Now it reads empty, I will let you know what it reads when I put 5 gallons in.
Finally got the front spring insulators so the springs are installed, along with the new/old shocks I found in the trunk.
Front brakes are done, now waiting on the booster and master cylinder.
I just received the top pump, hoses and cylinders. I hope so start on that this weekend.



And I just got the gaskets to install the left exhaust manifold. I drilled and tapped the broken stud and will install the manifold tomorrow. Then the new idler arm and steering box and linkage.
Am I having fun yet? Boss keeps asking me.
Thanks for reading,
Steve

 

Sounds like you are having fun.
It won't be long until you have a running and driving car.

 

Very nice work!

 

It has been a while since I did an update, so hear goes...
I have been making some progress, slow though mostly due to wrong parts. Epray has not been working out too well.
I got a master cylinder and top hoses that did not fit. Got it resolved though not with any help from epray.
Today I am replacing flex ATF lines, they don't look original but they do look ready to burst. Trans is drained ready for new ATF.
Gen has been rebuilt with new bearings and installed. Waiting on a seal kit for the P/S pump. New steering box is installed.
And I found that the dash pad is not removable, so I am removing the windshield, it needs replacing anyway, and then see if I can repair the crack in the dashpad.
Removing the dash so I can repair the vacuum lines, clean out all the dirt and inspect the wiring.
Repaired the parking brake assembly and now will install it.
Ok, I was out working and took a few pics, got the wheels on, its on the ground, torqued the control arms. My buddy came over to borrow some brass fittings and he helped me remove the windshield, so it is out. Now to clean parts.
Thanks for looking.

This is what I got, not what was in the picture that I ordered from. The rear plug is up hard against the wheel well and it leaks.

This is what the picture looked like and what I expected to be delivered. So I bought this one for a 66 Cad 62. Had to make a slug for the piston.

Got the dash out, going to clean it up and make sure the vac lines are correct and the wiring is ok.

This is the crack I need to figure out how to repair.

Got the broken windshield out. Much easier to clean and figure out what to do about the dash pad.
.

 

I stand corrected: The dash pad is removable. It looks to be a thin fiberglass shell with a thin amount of foam and vinyl. I got it off, now to figure out what to do with itl
Got the wheels on and it is on the ground!

 

Nice work!
My dashpad is cracked in the same place. Looks impossible to remove without taking the whole dash apart as you have. Now that you have it out do you think it's possible to remove with the windshield in?

My plan is to remove the old foam. Refoam it and wrap it in a good vinyl maybe adding stitching across the front edge for a nice detail.

 

Hi Mikeyt,
Yes, I think you can remove it with the windshield in. You need to remove the dash to get to the row of nut and there are nuts around the perimeter of the speaker hole.
If you look at the picture of the underside there are two bright yellow spots near both front corners, that is where the dash pad was adhered to the body. I used a long thin screw driver to gently work the pad loose, but did result in more small cracks. The material is very brittle. At the windshield side the dash pad slips under a lip of the body.
Not sure how you will remove the foam from the shell.
I am thinking after I clean all the surfaces I will mount the dash pad back onto the body to maintain the proper dimension then use some type of body bondo to fill the crack, let it set, sand smooth then recover with some new material.
That is my thinking anyways after watching some videos.
Thanks for looking and good luck with your project!

 

You’re doing great!

 

Thanks for the reply!
Maybe I won't need to remove all the foam? That's good news.
Can't wait to see the dash pad repaired.
Mine is cracked in the same place