Sam Jelfs

Thought I would copy this over here, also have a thread running on a UK based hot rod forum...

So, my first foray into American cars after mostly playing with old VWs and Land Rovers... picked it up a few weeks ago from a local dealer, lots of work to be done, but it runs, drives, and has a new APK (Dutch safety test)...

Quick pick from taking it out when we got it, letting the o/h have a play in the sunshine...


Lots of work, plenty of rust to be attacked, and I dread to think what I am going to find under the vinyl roof... But first jobs will be fixing some of the small niggles like the lack of working fuel gauge and rev counter, and the rotten door window pillar seal before to much rain gets in... Its going to be something of a rolling resto, and no doubt I shall be asking a lot of questions on here in the coming months... plan is to have it solid by the end of the year, and then look at getting paint / interior sorted out over the winter ready for next year. But as it is too big to fit in my garage, this is all going to be a bit time / weather dependent. That and I have to keep it rolling as much as possible so as not to block the drive...

Let the fun begin

Sam Jelfs

So I finally got some time on this... After driving it for a while I found that there was a few issues with the trans, namely when hot it was reluctant to shift up in to 3rd, and would shift out of first almost instantly. in the end it came out and was rebuilt, and so far drives rather well.

So, with some good weather behind me I got cracking on the resto. First job was to get the fuel tank out. There seems to be a problem with the sender, mainly it doesn't, and well a fuel gauge might be useful. Plan was to drop the tank and deal with the trunk floor at the same time. Well, best laid plans and all that. The tow bar that was fitted meant that I couldn't drop the tank as the filler neck wouldn't come out from between the tow bar and the boot floor. So, out with the tow bar... easy you would think expect it was constructed in such a way that one of the crossbars was actually made in place and wouldn't come out from between the chassis rails without being cut in half... so out came the angle grinder, off came the bumper, and in the end the tank dropped out...

Enough waffle - picture time...
Bumper and tow bar off
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Floor doesn't look too bad
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Worst of the rot is around the body mounts and the seal lip
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Dropping the bumper off did reveal one thing though, large amounts of fiberglass and shiny paint :lol:
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Lastly the offending tow bar, and you can see where I had to cut the rear bar to get it out, it was fitted with the ends of the bar inside the chassis rails and was obviously bolted together and then welded once on the car... Shall have to sleeve the cut section and get it welded back together as I actually wanted to keep it.
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Sam Jelfs

another couple of hours on it yesterday evening... wire brush cup on the grinder and attack the trunk floor... Must say its not as bad as I feared, still got to investigate the seam under the light clusters, but so far there is nothing too worrying there, shouldn't take too long to get welded up and painted over the weekend. Its quite heavily pitted in places, but only holed where the brace is spot welded to it underneath, obv a bit of a water trap.

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Sam Jelfs

And thats where it stands, hopefully the nice weather holds for the weekend and I can get the trunk floor sorted and the fuel tank back in. Then to see if the bumper is salvageable or if I will have to try and source another one, which probably a) won't be easy, and b) shipping one over from the US won't be cheap.

MDchanic

Great car and nice work!

Welcome to Classic Olds!

- Eric

jaunty75

If that hole I see in the bumper in that one photo is what I think it is, I doubt this bumper can be salvaged. But you're right. Finding one will be difficult as it will have to come from a donor car.

I'm curious about your gas gauge issue. What does the gauge actually do now when you turn on the ignition?

There are some quick tests you can/should run on the gauge itself to verify that it is working properly before turning to the sending unit.

Find the place behind the gas tank where the wire from the sending unit connects to the wire from the gauge and pull the connector apart. Ground the side from the gauge and turn the ignition ON. The gauge should go to E. Remove the wire from ground, and the gauge should immediately move to F or more likely well past it.

If both of these things happen, the gauge is fine. If not, there is still one more thing to check, and that is to make sure the other wire coming off the sending unit, the black ground wire, is firmly and cleanly attached to the body. Where it attaches under the car can dirty and grimy and perhaps rusted over 43 years. If you do have a bad ground, and the gauge and wiring are otherwise OK, you would already have a gauge pegging on F.

If the ground is good and the gauge still doesn't work, then it's time to assume the sending unit is the culprit.

Sam Jelfs

That's my fear, but as I have nothing to lose, I may as well see if I can repair it. Looks like a wet weekend here so might give it a clean and have a look on saturday. I found a front and rear bumper, but at $400 a piece, plus shipping over the Atlantic, then they will likely still need re-chroming, its not going to be cheap... Not many of these cars over this side of the pond, even less as breakers... but you never know off to a big American car show next weekend (800,000 sq.ft. exhibition centre full), so might get lucky

The wiring in the car is a mess, and half of the stuff behind the dash is disconnected, the other half hacked about and all sorts of stuff added / modified over the years. One of my jobs after bodywork will be a complete rewire.

I wanted to get the fuel gauge working in the mean time so before checking on the dash wiring I first wanted to check the sender was actually working, found where the wire from the sender joins the loom in the trunk, and connected a meter between there and ground... nothing, no continuity at all, so either a wiring issue or dead sender. Dropped the tank and the earth connection from the sender to the frame had corroded and broken free. I was dropping the tank anyway to do the welding and rust proofing, so will rewire the sender (checked and it appears to work, least I get a varying resistance as I move the tank around) and get it back in the car, then turn my attention to the front end. I have a feeling it is probably just disconnected, as most things appear to be (no dash lights, no warning lights, basically the speedo works and that's about it... after market water temp / oil pressure / volt gauges work at least)

jaunty75

Thanks for the info. I don't envy you. I always wonder why people tear wiring apart. If you have a problem, trace it down and fix it. What's gained by turning things into a mess?

Good luck. That is a nice-looking car.

Sam Jelfs

Luckily my background is in electronics, so with patients and the wiring diagram making my own loom and wiring it from scratch shouldn't be too bad of a job (fatal last words of course :-D )

Sam Jelfs

Spent the weekend on it, got the trunk floor all welded up and painted inside and underneath. Got to grab some more fuel line tomorrow and then I can get the tank back in. Still got to get the tow bar welded back together again and then that and the bumper can go back on.

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MDchanic

Nice!

- Eric

Allan R

Nice Land Yacht! Belated welcome to C.O. too.

Good luck with finding a replacement bumper at the swap meet. These large barges aren't all that common to find parts for, so you might have to end up biting the bullet for a replacement one. Since you're looking at re-chrome anyway is there any chance you could have the old one fabricated with new metal and sent out for plating?

re: the earth connection on your sender. Be sure to clean the metal at the connection point first. Then I'd paint over it to protect it from any more corrosion. Funny how the earth connection is in an exposed area instead of a protected one. Same thing with the A bodies.

Good luck with your restoration. When you get to the wiring, I'm sure you'll have a nightmare to contend with. I'd look for a 1970 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual (CSM) since it has an excellent color schematic of the big car wiring. I realize they are available as scanned images on other sites, but the scan loses a lot of printing detail that you really want to have.

1970 CSM on ebay - reference

Sam Jelfs

Cheers, I have sent a few pictures off to a Chromers, going to see if they think it is worth repairing or not. Larry Cumoso / West Coast Classics has both front and rear bumpers available, but at $400 each, plus getting them shipped from the west coast to europe, and then they will still probably need re-chroming, its not going to be cheap.

As for the fuel sender, what I will probably do is bring the earth connection back in to the trunk along with the gauge connection, and earth it there.

I have the CSM and the fisher body guide, but its one of the CD versions, rather than a paper copy. Shall be keeping my eyes open for a decent paper version at the swap meets. I shall be making a loom from scratch, and will probably be making a few modifications as I go along....

jaunty75

I've dealt with Larry Camuso before. Very good experience. He's been in business a long time. The first purchases I made from him were in the early '90s.

http://larrycamuso.com/

MDchanic

This guy is parting one out...



- Eric

Sam Jelfs

I have no worries about dealing with him, its just whether it is cheaper to buy from him, or if I can get the one I already have repaired for less then the $700+ it will cost to get a bumper from him.

Excellent, thanks the the heads up, have sent him a message, see what state the ones on his are in.

Allan R

They are in (Plano) Illinois.... jk, I know what you mean - what condition - but it was too good a one liner to pass up.

Sam Jelfs

I could work that much out

Billions and Trillions have a pair of rechromed bumpers, but at $2250, plus shipping, plus 4.5% import tax and 20% sales tax it comes out at around $3400 to get them in my hands...

Oh and got the fuel tank back in tonight, but need to pick up a few new bolts before I can get the tow bar and current rear bumper back on. Shouldn't take all that long but might not get time until wednesday now.

MDchanic

You should avoid "Billions and Trillions."

- Eric

Allan R

X1000! They are just bad news. No one that's commented about them on this site has had anything good to report.

You could try DVAP (Desert Valley Auto Parts) - they have these cars sitting in the desert....

Sam Jelfs

Cool, thanks for the warning, I shall carry on hunting. I will give DVAP a call later, see what they have.

At the moment a lot of car and industrial companies over here are closed for the summer holidays and don't reopen for another week, so hopefully next week I can call some of the local chrome platers, see if they can do anything with my current bumper. Even at approx $55/hr labour charges I think I can pay for a lot of repair work before it becomes more economical to import another pair, just the shipping from the US to Europe will pay for the best part of a full days labour.

Allan R

Here's a thought with the plating. Ask the plater to include the bumper (when it's time to do this of course) in another batch of parts being done. That way you may be able to get a discount by tagging onto another job instead of them setting up one specially for you. Good luck with the continuing search.

I'd bet that during the summer when work is slow, most shops will give competitive prices just to get some business through?

Sam Jelfs

Right, best get back on with this! So all that ^^^ work happened back in July now(!), at which point I got it back on the road and then life got in the way... summer, festivals, moving house, and then christmas... But, the reason for the house move meant I now have the Olds in a garage With a nice new welder purchased, I have made a start on it again...

So this week saw the rear bumper and lights coming back off again, and the trunk lid seal removed...

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well thats all a bit crusty!

got as far as cutting out the first section, and getting the repair piece ready to go in, but then couldn't find my weld-through primer, so that stopped play on monday...

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Managed to get all the rest of the edge repaired this week, and a good amount of brushable seam-sealer loaded into the bottom of it, once the rubber seal is glued in place it should be nice and tidy.

So today I turned my eye to the trunk lid. When I got the car there was a piece of stainless glued along the lower edge of the trunk lid, with this and the trim removed I attacked it with a wire brush on the grinder and found rather a lot of filler, and not so much metal...

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I got as far as cutting a section out, and making up a repair piece, but I just wasn't happy with it. I need a metal folder, trying to do everything with strips of metal and bits of angle iron just isn't working... I have a folder on order, but the shop supplying it has been closed all this week, so hopefully a call to them when they open again tomorrow will bring about something useful, otherwise any free time will be spent pulling out the interior and the rear window ready to deal with the rot around the bottom of the rear screen.

Jedidiah

I never expected to see a machine like that in Europe. Ninety-Eights are awesome. Good luck with the project.

Sam Jelfs

Cheers, I shall all the luck I can get!

Oldsmobiles don't seem all that common over here, get a lot of 50s / 60s chevy and fords, and 70s / 80s Cadillacs and pontiacs, not so much Olds though. This one seems to be a european market car from new, inside the glovebox and on the front grill there are dealer stickers / emblems from a Swiss dealer.

caddy

Are there parts you are still lookin for...? There is a yard here with approxiamately 7 cars...

Sam Jelfs

You may regret saying that, I have quite a list currently if stuff that is entirely unobtainable over here.

- Front and rear bumpers,
- Front and rear side marker lights (or at least the chrome trim)
- Front directional indicators
- and pretty much a complete "Comfotron" air-co system, most of the engine bay side has been ripped out, but not yet had chance to check what is there, and what is usable.

I think thats all the major stuff currently.

Sam Jelfs

So, not a whole lot to report. I'm still waiting on my slip roller / box brake to be delivered, and until that happens I can't be getting on with the repair panels...

So whilst my other half had some church people over for some religious meeting or other last night I took the opportunity to escape to the garage for a couple of hours. Got a few bits of trim removed, and the rear seats out. plus started to have a bit more of a dig around the rear screen...

So, under the rear seat there is a nice crusty patch that will need tackling...
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and the rear screen edge / lower c-pillars don't look so healthy...
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I knew that vinyl roof would be hiding something nasty...

Hopefully I shall have an assistant tonight to help me get the rear screen out, and then I can pull the roof lining down and get on with cleaning up the outer roof skin ready for repairs.

Sam Jelfs

Managed to get the rear screen out last night, and well... its not pretty...

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Large amounts of expanding foam, filler, and wet news paper. Unf there was also a lot of moisture trapped under the foam.

So, after an hour off poking, prying and scraping I managed to get all the rubbish out. Luckily there is a lot of surface rust on the inner panels, but by the looks of it once it has dried out and been given a wire brush I should be able to get away with just treating the rust and giving it a good coat of zinc paint, meaning its just the outer skin to fabricate.

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Also, after 2 weeks of waiting for the local tool shop just over the border in belgium to get something in stock I gave up and drove the 3 hour round trip to Gouda and picked up a roller / guillotine / box brake which will hopefully let me get back on with sorting out the trunk lid tomorrow.

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Allan R

You got that right. It's the definition of downright ugly....

Hope your new toy works well to help fix that problem.

Sam Jelfs

Wow I havent updated this in a while! So, where are we?

Well, not a huge amount of progress has been made. Yesterday I collected a crate of parts that had made their way across the atlantic from amesolds in Texas. So that now gives mea replacement trunk lid, a rear screen inc surrounding metal work, bumpers, and some quarter panel repair sections. They will all need a bit of tidying up and repairs doing, but in a hell of a lot better shape than what I had previously.

Whilst waiting, I've been working on the suspension. Not to everyones taste, but its now sat on 20" wheels, with air ride. Bar the plastic inner fender liners nothing has had to be cut to make it all work. Its not super low, but I can go from bump stop to bump stop front and rear, keeping full steering travel. To put it back to stock would just be a matter of unbolting all the air bags, putting the springs back in place, and cutting off some brackets I welded to the frame / lower front A arms for shock mounts. Custom, but not irreversible custom

Hard lines in the trunk, no plastic lines on display here.

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and doing its thing...



So, thats it for now. Rear window is next, then floor pans need replacing. But first some welding on the daily driver (VW i'm afraid)...

beepac98

Amazing work Sam! Can't wait to see the finished product.
Although in my experience were never really ever completely done with our project cars.........
Cheers!!
beepac

Sam Jelfs

Wow, it's been a long time since I got this updated! or rather, a long time since I did any significant work on the Olds... Unf life keeps getting in the way. I am a bit of a keen runner, and after an 8hour day at work and a 10 mile run in the evening, going out to the garage to weld up rusty cars soon loses its appeal :lol:

So, back in the summer I had a nice big box of parts arrive from the US.

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Inside was a complete rear screen and surround cut from a donor car, plus front and rear bumpers and a few other body cuts. Unf though, when I got the donor screen section stripped and cleaned down it was in a pretty bad shape, and would make for just as much work as repairing my existing one.

So, I set to with the welder, and slowly but surely turned the mess above into the solid mess below

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It's not pretty, but a bit of time with some body filler and it should be good enough.

I hope to get a first skim of filler on it tonight, and then its on to stripping all the paint off the rear quarters and repairing the mess that some previous owner has made down in the corner of the wheel arches.

I have also found an identical car in the UK for sale, its a running driving car, but has no roadworthy test. Depending on what state it is in I may pick it up to either use as a parts car or something to have on the road whilst this one gets finished, just waiting on more photos from the seller before I bother doing the 14 hour round trip to look at it.

Fullsizelover

Good luck with the rebuild, do you have a timeframe when she will be ready?

Sam Jelfs

I originally wanted it back on the road this summer, but I doubt that will happen. I want to get all the rust issues sorted by summer and the car in primer, then it will be on to rebuilding the engine, sorting aftermarket A/C, custom dash... I guess gettnig it back together next winter is maybe possible. I'm in no rush, would rather have it done right and enjoy doing it, than force myself to rush, hate it, and end up with something I am not happy with.

To quote one of my favourite authors, "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by." (Douglas Adams)

Sam Jelfs

So, time to turn to the right rear fender. I knew there was a mess of a repair in the corner of the wheel arch...

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Looks like someone has just plated over the rot without cutting it out first.

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I've got a section cut from another car, needs a bit of work, but better than nothing

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starting poking around the rest of the panel and found 3/8" of filler above the wheel arch...

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Sam Jelfs

There is something weird about the rear arches though. On the right side there is a lip along the top that the skirt closes against

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but it's not there on the left side...

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I guess the left side is correct, but can anyone confirm?

ent72olds

Wow, you have your work cut out for you.....no pun intended. So far, good work! As far as the wheel openings, I restored a Cadillac that had skirts, and had to rebuild the rear openings! They looked like the right side, I believe you will not be happy when you dig into the left side!😭. Just to be clear, the left side is driver's side.....but I'm sure you knew that already. We have a member here, Drew, selling the same car minus engine. I will find the link and post it here for you!

ent72olds

You already found it I see! Carry on!

Sam Jelfs

So I started clearing up the body cut that I had been sent last summer. I knew it would need a bit of work...

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Decided to drill uot all the spot welds and split the panels to make sorting it all easier.

Inside of the outer panel:
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Worst of the Inner panel:
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Just the odd hole to fix:
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Thing is, this is better than either of the rear quarters on my car, and the best of the two body cuts I was sent :lol:

Ah well, shall be an interesting prospect. Plan is to repair the inner panel, then use it to clamp the outer panel to whilst I repair that. Then its cut out the rotten inner and outer sections of the car, and weld the new repaired sections in... Sounds easy when you write it like that

Not going to get much progress until next week now, work and holidays getting in the way.