DGY '71 Olds 442 Build - Pro Touring
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Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
DGY '71 Olds 442 Build - Pro Touring
Going to try and start a thread to show pics and comments on my '71 442 project. 20+ years ago when I got this car, there was no such thing as "pro touring" or anything else like that, but I guess that is what they are now calling what I had always dreamed of doing to this car, and finally started it about 2 years ago.
This is how the car sat for 20+ years... awaiting me to stop spending my time circle track racing, and start working on a "cool" project for myself. I should have known better than to let it sit outside, under a tree, uncovered, for so long.
This is how the car sat for 20+ years... awaiting me to stop spending my time circle track racing, and start working on a "cool" project for myself. I should have known better than to let it sit outside, under a tree, uncovered, for so long.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
Engine / Tranny:
The engine I had in car was from my original car, that got wrecked 20+ years ago. The engine had a ton of stuff done to it originally, but I took it to get freshened, and update to a new hydraulic roller cam, stainless valves and seats, etc. As it turned out, the engine stayed in such good shape, I probably could have started it as is.. but that would have been dumb.
First car had an M22, but this one had a TH400.. and I wanted a stick.. so here is pic of engine after refresh and dyno bolted up to TKO600 awaiting to be put back into car.
The engine I had in car was from my original car, that got wrecked 20+ years ago. The engine had a ton of stuff done to it originally, but I took it to get freshened, and update to a new hydraulic roller cam, stainless valves and seats, etc. As it turned out, the engine stayed in such good shape, I probably could have started it as is.. but that would have been dumb.
First car had an M22, but this one had a TH400.. and I wanted a stick.. so here is pic of engine after refresh and dyno bolted up to TKO600 awaiting to be put back into car.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
Rear end removal:
Body work seems never ending but guys are doing a great job. I'm not a body guy so am leaving up to the "pros".
Here we are taking out the original rear end to make some mods to chassis to install coil overs and a Ford 9". The trick is that I want to retain stock exhaust placement so have to make sure everything is going to fit right as well as work properly.
Body work seems never ending but guys are doing a great job. I'm not a body guy so am leaving up to the "pros".
Here we are taking out the original rear end to make some mods to chassis to install coil overs and a Ford 9". The trick is that I want to retain stock exhaust placement so have to make sure everything is going to fit right as well as work properly.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
Hood:
Well... we got an aftermarket hood to try that was for a '70 and was going to cut the front of it off and switch it with a "stock" nose, but decided to instead go for a "real" '71 reproduction. Still waiting to get the hood but here is a pic of the hood we since returned.
Well... we got an aftermarket hood to try that was for a '70 and was going to cut the front of it off and switch it with a "stock" nose, but decided to instead go for a "real" '71 reproduction. Still waiting to get the hood but here is a pic of the hood we since returned.
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Joined: Jul 2010
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From: WB/Scranton, PA
Front End Suspension:
Yeah, it was a frame off, but who wants to see boring photos of a mostly stock frame.
Here are some photos of the new front end parts being fitted up. (Entire front end stuff provided by the great folks at SC&C.)
Yeah, it was a frame off, but who wants to see boring photos of a mostly stock frame.
Here are some photos of the new front end parts being fitted up. (Entire front end stuff provided by the great folks at SC&C.)
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
Rear Brakes - Parking/Emergency Brake:
Here is photo of the Baer SS4 rear brake kit with drum style "emergency" brakes. This is one sweet setup and went on real easily. I never liked the idea of having the emergency brakes (on disc) as part of the caliper itself - this hookup separates the two systems so it can really be used even when there is a caliper problem - to me the whole point of an "emergency brake". (I am also in the airline industry, so to me, real redundant systems are always a "plus".)
Here is photo of the Baer SS4 rear brake kit with drum style "emergency" brakes. This is one sweet setup and went on real easily. I never liked the idea of having the emergency brakes (on disc) as part of the caliper itself - this hookup separates the two systems so it can really be used even when there is a caliper problem - to me the whole point of an "emergency brake". (I am also in the airline industry, so to me, real redundant systems are always a "plus".)
Just an Olds Guy
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 24,528
From: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Hood:
Well... we got an aftermarket hood to try that was for a '70 and was going to cut the front of it off and switch it with a "stock" nose, but decided to instead go for a "real" '71 reproduction. Still waiting to get the hood but here is a pic of the hood we since returned.
Well... we got an aftermarket hood to try that was for a '70 and was going to cut the front of it off and switch it with a "stock" nose, but decided to instead go for a "real" '71 reproduction. Still waiting to get the hood but here is a pic of the hood we since returned.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
Well... I originally got one from VFN... but there was a problem with it and it wouldnt fit right.. no-how --and it's still an ongoing "discussion" about if they are going to fess up. I am in process of returning it.
Got a second hood from, I believe, ThePartsPlaceInc. I didn't order it and it was a '70 hood - not a '71. This was basically a stock metal frame with the hood scoop molding into it. It fit perfectly, was very well made, and we were VERY tempted to just alter it to work. There were two problems though: 1) the whole front of hood was wrong for '71 (obviously), and 2) it was probably heavier than a regular stock hood. If it wasn't so heavy, I might have opted for the body guys to alter it to work on the '71, but since I was trying to lighten up the front end, and definately NOT increase the front end weight, I decided against going that way.
Right now, waiting on a hood from Thornton. They are withing a few hrs from me, so if there is a problem, I can just put it in my truck and take it to them. I am real hopefull that it is going to fit like a glove, as promised, and I know those guys there are making HUGE attempts at getting a new reproduction '71 done and built that is "perfect" and ready to bolt on. We shall see. Hope to have it within the next month or so. I bettter!
Now, I have never seen first hand a REAL OEM fiberglass hood up close. Maybe a brand new real OEM one would be "crappy". I am guessing they are not. I just want it to fit right and line up to fenders, etc., at this point.
-Dave
Got a second hood from, I believe, ThePartsPlaceInc. I didn't order it and it was a '70 hood - not a '71. This was basically a stock metal frame with the hood scoop molding into it. It fit perfectly, was very well made, and we were VERY tempted to just alter it to work. There were two problems though: 1) the whole front of hood was wrong for '71 (obviously), and 2) it was probably heavier than a regular stock hood. If it wasn't so heavy, I might have opted for the body guys to alter it to work on the '71, but since I was trying to lighten up the front end, and definately NOT increase the front end weight, I decided against going that way.
Right now, waiting on a hood from Thornton. They are withing a few hrs from me, so if there is a problem, I can just put it in my truck and take it to them. I am real hopefull that it is going to fit like a glove, as promised, and I know those guys there are making HUGE attempts at getting a new reproduction '71 done and built that is "perfect" and ready to bolt on. We shall see. Hope to have it within the next month or so. I bettter!
Now, I have never seen first hand a REAL OEM fiberglass hood up close. Maybe a brand new real OEM one would be "crappy". I am guessing they are not. I just want it to fit right and line up to fenders, etc., at this point.
-Dave
Just an Olds Guy
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 24,528
From: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Well... I originally got one from VFN... but there was a problem with it and it wouldnt fit right.. no-how --and it's still an ongoing "discussion" about if they are going to fess up. I am in process of returning it.
Got a second hood from, I believe, ThePartsPlaceInc. I didn't order it and it was a '70 hood - not a '71. This was basically a stock metal frame with the hood scoop molding into it. It fit perfectly, was very well made, and we were VERY tempted to just alter it to work. There were two problems though: 1) the whole front of hood was wrong for '71 (obviously), and 2) it was probably heavier than a regular stock hood. If it wasn't so heavy, I might have opted for the body guys to alter it to work on the '71, but since I was trying to lighten up the front end, and definately NOT increase the front end weight, I decided against going that way.
Right now, waiting on a hood from Thornton. They are withing a few hrs from me, so if there is a problem, I can just put it in my truck and take it to them. I am real hopefull that it is going to fit like a glove, as promised, and I know those guys there are making HUGE attempts at getting a new reproduction '71 done and built that is "perfect" and ready to bolt on. We shall see. Hope to have it within the next month or so. I bettter!
Now, I have never seen first hand a REAL OEM fiberglass hood up close. Maybe a brand new real OEM one would be "crappy". I am guessing they are not. I just want it to fit right and line up to fenders, etc., at this point.
-Dave
Got a second hood from, I believe, ThePartsPlaceInc. I didn't order it and it was a '70 hood - not a '71. This was basically a stock metal frame with the hood scoop molding into it. It fit perfectly, was very well made, and we were VERY tempted to just alter it to work. There were two problems though: 1) the whole front of hood was wrong for '71 (obviously), and 2) it was probably heavier than a regular stock hood. If it wasn't so heavy, I might have opted for the body guys to alter it to work on the '71, but since I was trying to lighten up the front end, and definately NOT increase the front end weight, I decided against going that way.
Right now, waiting on a hood from Thornton. They are withing a few hrs from me, so if there is a problem, I can just put it in my truck and take it to them. I am real hopefull that it is going to fit like a glove, as promised, and I know those guys there are making HUGE attempts at getting a new reproduction '71 done and built that is "perfect" and ready to bolt on. We shall see. Hope to have it within the next month or so. I bettter!
Now, I have never seen first hand a REAL OEM fiberglass hood up close. Maybe a brand new real OEM one would be "crappy". I am guessing they are not. I just want it to fit right and line up to fenders, etc., at this point.
-Dave
Talk to to Rob at this company:
FiberConcepts
335 W. Bristol Rd.
Warminster, PA 18974
215-674-8990
They have a nice looking hood. In response to an email I sent him about fitment:
Good Morning Allan R,
Thanks for the complements, this hood has been a hugh sucess so far, we can't keep up with all of the orders we have for these. Anyway, you must take a little off the underside where your chrome moulding goes on the back of the hood, we leave it a little thick back there.... I could have a few people call you & let you know how great the fit is to the fenders.
Thanks, Rob
Thanks for the complements, this hood has been a hugh sucess so far, we can't keep up with all of the orders we have for these. Anyway, you must take a little off the underside where your chrome moulding goes on the back of the hood, we leave it a little thick back there.... I could have a few people call you & let you know how great the fit is to the fenders.
Thanks, Rob
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
As far as VFN goes, I can't tell you if my problem is common or not. The right side is curved downward below and along fender lines and because there is metal reinforcements in it, there is no way to just bend it back up. If I tried to bend it back, I would guess the fiberglass would crack.
I am a bit committed to Thornton at this point, and if it's as good as they are claiming it will be, it would be worth the extra $$$. I will definately report on this as soon as they have one to ship me and I get it.
-Dave
I am a bit committed to Thornton at this point, and if it's as good as they are claiming it will be, it would be worth the extra $$$. I will definately report on this as soon as they have one to ship me and I get it.
-Dave
Just an Olds Guy
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 24,528
From: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
I did not know that VFN used metal reinforcing in their hoods. Anyway, if you try to bend fibreglass after it's set you're right. It will crack or break even if it doesn't have metal reinforcing. Know when the best time to shatter fibreglass is? Middle of winter at -30. It explodes like dandelion fluff 
No worries about your committment. My suggestion was only that. I'm really curious to see what you get when the hood arrives. As many have said, the Thornton hood is a close to a GM hood you'll ever see or feel. I just can't afford one. I figured that by the time I bought it, shipped it, paid duty and import taxes, fitted and painted it, added the hardware needed to make the car a true OAI, it would cost me at least 4500.00 That's about 1/3 of what my car was last appraised at
. I am on fixed income now so I have to be pretty careful about managing expenses.
No worries about your committment. My suggestion was only that. I'm really curious to see what you get when the hood arrives. As many have said, the Thornton hood is a close to a GM hood you'll ever see or feel. I just can't afford one. I figured that by the time I bought it, shipped it, paid duty and import taxes, fitted and painted it, added the hardware needed to make the car a true OAI, it would cost me at least 4500.00 That's about 1/3 of what my car was last appraised at
. I am on fixed income now so I have to be pretty careful about managing expenses.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
Quick update:
VFN *DID* give me a partial refund on my hood. They haven't told me if they agree there was a problem, but I guess at this point the issue is moot. I paid for the hood long before I was really ready for it, since they make them to order and I didn't want to wait until I "needed" it to place the order. The big mistake I made was ordering so early where when I received it it was difficult to know for sure if there was a legitimate fitment issue or not. My advise is not to think you can do a restoration in a few weeks like you see on TV and order the parts that are not easily returnable when you are really ready to make sure it is right as soon as you get it.
SOO... THANK YOU VFN - you did stand by your product. You made it a little difficult, but in the end you did the right thing.
I am currently working on modifying the brake pedal bracket and firewall to accept tandem master cylinders and a bias bar adjuster. It is a bit of a pain because I am using a stock mechanical clutch pedal and linkage, and there is not a lot of room under the dash if you are trying to keep things somewhat "stock". I had to cut up the bracket quite a bit where it mounts on the firewall and once I have everything operational, will have to go back and add in some gusseting or bracing - just to be sure. I will take some pics once it is done.
Am waiting to deal with the brake MC's and firewall and then will get the engine back in car for final time (I hope), get the exhaust fitted in, and then send my headers out to get coated. Man, every single thing seems to take so much time!
VFN *DID* give me a partial refund on my hood. They haven't told me if they agree there was a problem, but I guess at this point the issue is moot. I paid for the hood long before I was really ready for it, since they make them to order and I didn't want to wait until I "needed" it to place the order. The big mistake I made was ordering so early where when I received it it was difficult to know for sure if there was a legitimate fitment issue or not. My advise is not to think you can do a restoration in a few weeks like you see on TV and order the parts that are not easily returnable when you are really ready to make sure it is right as soon as you get it.
SOO... THANK YOU VFN - you did stand by your product. You made it a little difficult, but in the end you did the right thing.
I am currently working on modifying the brake pedal bracket and firewall to accept tandem master cylinders and a bias bar adjuster. It is a bit of a pain because I am using a stock mechanical clutch pedal and linkage, and there is not a lot of room under the dash if you are trying to keep things somewhat "stock". I had to cut up the bracket quite a bit where it mounts on the firewall and once I have everything operational, will have to go back and add in some gusseting or bracing - just to be sure. I will take some pics once it is done.
Am waiting to deal with the brake MC's and firewall and then will get the engine back in car for final time (I hope), get the exhaust fitted in, and then send my headers out to get coated. Man, every single thing seems to take so much time!
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,212
From: USA
Very nicely done.
I'm a huuuuuuge fan of Pro-Touring vehicles over just about everything else.
Modernizing the classics to keep them on the road more often is really cool.
Bigger brakes, better transmissions, nicer rims, even modern engines.
But still keeping the classic body lines of the car so people can enjoy seeing em.
Nice work.
I have their adjustable upper control arms on my 2nd gen Z28 and they're the ****.
ALOT of people source from them that do Autocross and build pro-touring cars.
I'm a huuuuuuge fan of Pro-Touring vehicles over just about everything else.
Modernizing the classics to keep them on the road more often is really cool.
Bigger brakes, better transmissions, nicer rims, even modern engines.
But still keeping the classic body lines of the car so people can enjoy seeing em.
Nice work.
I have their adjustable upper control arms on my 2nd gen Z28 and they're the ****.
ALOT of people source from them that do Autocross and build pro-touring cars.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
Thorton OAI HOOD
Well everyone - good news! Got my brand new OAI hood from Thornton's! Attached are some pics so you can see some of the details of the quality work they did. Will be a few weeks until we get it on car and see how the fit is, but looks pretty darn good so far... way better than other manuf I have seen.
Note: I have never seen first hand an "original" hood, so it is hard for me to compare, but it is pretty impressive. It is also a lot heavier than I thought it would be, but that is due to the "real" steel frame that no other reproductions have. The all-fiberglass hoods I have seen don't look strong enough to use for regular driving... they are floppy and almost seem like they will rip off car while driving at speed on highway. This hood clearly will not, and includes the full center latching mechanism, just like a stock non-fiberglass hood.
Will post more once we are ready to install.
-Dave
Note: I have never seen first hand an "original" hood, so it is hard for me to compare, but it is pretty impressive. It is also a lot heavier than I thought it would be, but that is due to the "real" steel frame that no other reproductions have. The all-fiberglass hoods I have seen don't look strong enough to use for regular driving... they are floppy and almost seem like they will rip off car while driving at speed on highway. This hood clearly will not, and includes the full center latching mechanism, just like a stock non-fiberglass hood.
Will post more once we are ready to install.
-Dave
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
Thornton OAI Hood
Yeah.. I believe is supposed to be an exact duplicate as original. The steel front part underneath looks very similar to a stock non-oai hood, with the square opening for the latch mechanism.Will know more once I have hood on, and will take more pics of underneath.We just found a safe spot to set it for now, as it is claimed to be "paint ready" so we are treating it as a finished body panel, so don't want to lay it on ground, tilt it up on edges, etc. I have been waiting years for Thornton's to reengineer these and start producing them... so far seems worth the wait - and I am treating it like "gold".-Dave
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
From: WB/Scranton, PA
Dual MC / firewall mod
I am working on fabricating up the mounting for the dual master cylinders on both the brake pedal mount and firewall. Wanted to get that dealt with and done so I can drop the engine back in car for final time before reattaching the fenders and checking the fitment for the new hood.
The firewall where the master cylinder goes had to be cut out and replated, and then redrilled for the new dual (two) master cylinders. I took some pictures to document this, although they are pretty boring photos.
It was a bit tricky figuring out exactly where everything has to go, to hopefully have good clearances for the brake bias adjuster inside the car, as well as clearance for the wiring harness and wiper motor on the outside of firewall.
I am hoping to get this all done within the next week or so, get the new stainless front brake lines attached to frame, and the newly painted distribution block bracket and new distribution block bolted in, then can drop in the motor.
It has been pretty hot here lately and have been busy with "work" so haven't had a chance to spend a lot of time -- but have to get this done already!
The firewall where the master cylinder goes had to be cut out and replated, and then redrilled for the new dual (two) master cylinders. I took some pictures to document this, although they are pretty boring photos.
It was a bit tricky figuring out exactly where everything has to go, to hopefully have good clearances for the brake bias adjuster inside the car, as well as clearance for the wiring harness and wiper motor on the outside of firewall.
I am hoping to get this all done within the next week or so, get the new stainless front brake lines attached to frame, and the newly painted distribution block bracket and new distribution block bolted in, then can drop in the motor.
It has been pretty hot here lately and have been busy with "work" so haven't had a chance to spend a lot of time -- but have to get this done already!
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