67 cutlass / 403 / th200-4r install lessons

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Old August 19th, 2015 | 07:00 AM
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67 cutlass / 403 / th200-4r install lessons

So - if this is duplicate, sorry - Somehow I lost the first one.

My 67 conv. is a prior restoration by the previous owner - external rust repair, paint, cosmetics. It's been a good toy for the past 14 years or so, but hopefully now is better.

The original 330 4bbl (to the best of my knowledge) was at 96k and had never been touched. Blue smoke, stumbling, generally anemic, and oil everywhere. The plan was an eventual winter rebuild and refresh.
The Jetaway trans was, well, a Jetaway.
Between the two, long distance drives were not a pleasant thought.

This May the 330 sprung a large coolant leak at the back of the engine (intake manifold, I think). I didn't go to great lengths to find it (it wasn't the heater hose or valve), but started considering the rebuild.

A fair amount of investigation on this site and elsewhere, and some local engine shop discussions and parts pricing, had me considering a used swap instead of a rebuild right now.

The final result is the 403 (78 Buick Electra, 60k), TH200-4r (free core, rebuilt). The car is more fun to drive than ever, but there were a few issues I hadn't found ahead of time. I'll add a few posts (trans, engine, general) to help out someone else next time.

And I know you'll ask for pictures - I didn't take many during the project. There are a couple on my profile album, and I'll try to add a few with the following posts.
Old August 19th, 2015 | 08:06 AM
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78 403 into 67 cutlass

OK - to summarize what I think I had read prior to the project: All small blocks fit and are drilled the same.

The issues that came up:
Engine mounts - the 78 small block mounts are more like big block mounts. As my 67 mounts were shot, but the matching frame mounts were in the car, it took some shopping to find the correct mounts locally. Autozone, 71 cutlass small block (I think) were correct, for about $6 each.

Accessories (w/ A/c, PS) - the story is that anything can be used in full sets (67 set, 78 set, etc.). The reality:
- there was one missing tapped hole on the 78 block (front left corner) required for the 67 accessories.
- the long water pump doesn't fit well in the 67. Had to use the (harder to get) 67 short water pump.
- The water temp switch has to be moved to the right side (need to drill and tap) of the manifold. Plug the left side hole and grind the boss and plug to clear the PS/alt bracket.
- 67 doesn't have a fuel return line - I started with the 3 line fuel pump but changed to a new 2 line for security. I don't remember what the application was to fit the steel fuel line.

Simplifying - I removed the EGR, cruise, and all thermal vacuum switches from the 403. The fuel line was shot, I bent a new one but not to the original routing.

Leaks - like the 67, the 78 leaked all over. Re-gasketed the intake, valve covers, and oil pan. Turns out I should have done the rear main seal also, while the pan was off, but that will have to wait until phase 2 now.

Paint - The 78 buick was scrapped due to massive rust. The 403 was practically fuzzy (and some blue). The POR engine kit (clean, treat, paint, paint) worked very well. The gold paint requires frequent stirring, especially when thinned enough to spray.

The 67 oil pan had to go on the 403 (they smashed the 403 pan when pulling it). I found large plastic gear teeth? in the 67 pan - I guess that means you really do need to replace plastic timing gears?

Timing - is it possible to get too much advance? Almost scary.

Ignition - Decided to keep the HEI on the 403 instead of the 67 cap with Pertronix. Issues -
- the 67 air cleaner doesn't fit (I'll work on that).
- the 67 throttle linkage doesn't clear without some re-indexing of the distributor (not just one hole on the cap, more like 1-1/2, I didn't manage to count the gear teeth).
- 12V IGN connection required. I cut the resistor wire at the firewall plug and spliced a 12ga feed there. The remaining 3/4" of resistor wire hasn't been a problem.

I'll hit carb, cooling, and transmission comments separately
Old August 19th, 2015 | 08:33 AM
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200-4R into 67 cutlass

So - upon removal I found out that the Jetaway had been rebuilt (could still see the clean sealant on the pump and pan). I still wanted the 4 speeds, so forward with the swap.

Fitment - it sounded like the 67 should have the proper crossmember mounting for the 200-4r (Th400 location). In reality, the boxed convertible frame doesn't. I don't know if a TH400 convertible got a different crossmember or had different bracket locations on the frame. Interesting that on the outer frame rail you can see the drilling for the hardtop crossmembers that would have worked. You can see the picture of our fabricated extended brackets bolted and welded to the frame.

No vacuum connections required - one line scrapped.

Cooler lines - the old ones were in tough shape anyway. Bent new ones on the original routing. The new nickelcopper brake line is great and easy to work with. Note that the cooler connections a supposedly reversed from a th350 or jetaway.

Filler tube - this is a pain. The jetaway tube won't fit, due to the 200-4r connection angle and the newer grommet style connection. All standard 350/400/700/200 tubes appear to follow the firewall routing, where the 67 cutlass/jetaway filler went low below the heater / A/c box. I used a standard type, cut 2" off the top and stick, and bent extensively with a conduit bender to clear the firewall, tunnel, heater valve, and hei.

Shift linkage - original column shifter.
-As reported many times - the bracket in the floor/tunnel needs to be spaced out (I used 3/4 brass spacers and longer bolts) to properly work with the 200-4r.
-Column shifter works with no modification (Didn't even need adjustment). P, R, N, and 3 of the 4 forward gears. You can't get 1st gear without more surgery. The shift indicator is off just a little to the right of each position after P.

Driveshaft - the original is perfect.

Parking brake - still not finished. It is rumored that the t400 cables will fix it, but since the trans mount didn't work out that way I haven't spent the money on new cables yet (and the front cable could be a can of worms).

TV cable - Also a tight fit with the filler tube. Don't do something dumb and have to remove it after the trans is in, reconnecting it in the car is tough. (experience here, we tore the plastic cover while installing the engine/trans).
I'll hit on the carb end of the connection later.

Trans Rebuild - Not cheap. I had it done by a reputable local builder with a lot of 200-4r experience (rods, muscle, racing, turbo buicks, etc.). Built for approx. 350hp the rebuild was around $1300. It can get higher fast if you want to build for more HP.

Speedometer - cable hooked right up. Trans builder had the right gear in it for my 215/75r14 tires / 3.08 gears.

Converter - fairly standard high stall (nothing special) maybe 2000?

Setup - The trans builder insisted on setting up the cable himself after installation (house call).

End result - great. It would be better with higher gears (3.42 or 3.73) which may come someday. Right now the 185 hp (orig) 403 will spin the tire from a start (open diff), and it doesn't hit 4th gear until 50+. 65 mph is just idling along.

Last edited by 67cutlassmn; August 19th, 2015 at 09:24 AM. Reason: More information
Old August 19th, 2015 | 09:54 AM
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Cooling system comments - 403

The original 3 row brass/copper radiator had been in poor shape for years. Hairline cracks in the tanks were sealed up 5 or 6 years back with a stop leak treatment.

This was a low budget project (which rules out $500 brass replacements) but reliability and a touch or originality were goals (so no plastic tanks, alum cores). I used a 2 row stamped tank aluminum radiator from Auto City Classics in MN. A few lessons from that:
- 2 row, 1"? tubes, cools very well.
- Import construction - wide tank seam welds don't fit very well into the original support brackets
- had to cut and widen the brackets to fit the tank size
- the top and bottom covers on the core are almost flush with the tank seam, so the original bracket and rubber design doesn't fit right. Trimmed the lip on the rubber to improve the fit and get the radiator cover/ support to sit down properly.
- the core is thicker, therefore the water pump/fan clearance mentioned in the engine post was more significant.
- Construction / assembly is not ideal - the core isn't perfectly square (fits is a little off). The overflow hose barb was installed dry and galled the threads. Seam welds are not consistent, making bracket fit a little different at each corner.
- The radiator outlet connection is 1-1/2", not the original 1-3/4" (I'll explain more later)
- The price was right (under $200 for a stamped tank aluminum radiator that works).

Water pump issues - As mentioned in the engine post - The 78 water pump (long) caused the fan to sit right against the radiator.
- I don't know how close. I couldn't even get it onto the raised nose on the water pump hub.
- Putting the 78 pulley on would have made the belts line up, but the fan was still going to hit.
- I ended up using the 67 pump with fresh paint, as a reasonable cost new or rebuild was hard to come by locally.
- There are at least two distinct different pump gaskets. The 67 is not the more commonly available one. I ended up making one out of sheet material instead of ordering a second one and waiting to see if it was right.
- THINK twice before painting the pump inlet hose connection. The original was badly corroded (so not much of a barb) and with slippery paint under it just creates a glycol shower (2nd one) the first time the pressure comes up high enough. That stuff tastes awful.

Misc. -
- Venting - initial fill and startup was with the back of the car still on stands. The engine couldn't vent and fill properly. It heats up fast and air builds more pressure than water. It also doesn't necessarily heat up the thermostat properly, and air blows out a lot more coolant if you open the radiator cap (1st mess). Second try was with a tested thermostat, with vent holes drilled, with the car level. This worked a lot better.

Water pump/radiator hoses - There is a lot of past discussion on water pump lengths. Not much discussion (there is some) on hose sizes.
- The 67 used a 2" pump inlet, 1-3/4 or 1-7/8 radiator connection. The 78 used a 1-3/4" inlet, 1-1/2 radiator connection. Other early 70s may have had a 1-7/8 pump inlet, 1-1/2 or 1-3/4 radiator connection.
- I needed a 2" pump connection, 1-1/2 radiator connection (doesn't exist) and didn't want a universal hose.
- Ended up finding an early 70s preformed hose with 1-7/8 pump connection, 1-1/2 radiator connection. It is slightly longer than the 67 but can be trimmed at both ends and fits without much distortion.

Heater valve - kept the 78 valve on the engine, even though it is different than the 67. The 67 is smaller and may have fit better, but would need an NPT bushing to fit the 78 manifold.

Overflow - finally tired of the original non-recovery system and installed an overflow/recovery tank in the right front corner. Best $9 of the project.
Old August 20th, 2015 | 03:02 PM
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To solve the issue with the hole not being in the cylinder head for the bracket, you could've pulled the heads from the 330 and put them on the 403. It will increase compression quite a bit. It's usually the first thing I do with late model, big dish pistoned engines. You will have to drill out the head bolts to 17/32 for the head bolts, but thats no problem. Plus, it'll look like you have a 330 in the car!!
Old August 20th, 2015 | 04:23 PM
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HMM I thought 66 was the last year for the junkaway? Should have a TH400? Not that it makes any difference for what you are waningt to accomplish. I have a Auto Zone Suburban-C10 aluminum radiator in my 67, drops right in, only need sleeve reducers for the hose. Motor runs very "cool". Not bad for $120.00. You may need to re-route your trans lines, my is a M-21.
Old August 20th, 2015 | 04:26 PM
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Plastic tanks though, but have had it in the car for years no problems. With a shroud 160-180 in Texas 105 degree heat.
Old August 21st, 2015 | 08:31 PM
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Someday the 67 heads get rebuilt, get larger intake valves, and go in, probably with a new cam. The rebuild costs on the heads and the 330 were the motivation to find a good running used engine.
There is a genuine Jetaway and switch pitch converter in my yard. Also the 78 th400. And a whole bunch of other extra parts.

Last edited by 67cutlassmn; August 22nd, 2015 at 05:25 AM.
Old September 3rd, 2015 | 02:37 PM
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Just and FYI-They sell hose reducers at NAPA. There rubber sleeves that allow you to use the 67 size hoses on the new radiators. Part number 900 and 901 is what i used on my 67.
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