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Hugh,
You’re in the midst of learning exactly how far from mainstream big Olds are. Don’t despair. The solution is patience. Which I’m bad at.
I used Addco rear sway bars on my ‘66 big Oldses. Not sure if they’re still available, but Oldsmaniac is quite right. Don’t bolt a rear sway bar on U channel, unboxed 50 year old rear trailing arms. They won’t last and can harm you. Mine broke without hurting me, but lesson learned. I believe you know I’ve used A body (Cutlass) boxed rear control arms on mine. Stock front sway bars work great, given fresh bushings and snug fasteners.
As for front disc brakes, there’s a scarebird conversion thread here somewhere, but I’ve gone with (now rare) factory ‘70 Olds 88/98 disc spindles, hubs, rotors, calipers and a dual master. This is where the patience comes in. These parts are hard to find. Craig here on the site may have the stuff you need.
Your parts date range is 65-70 Olds 88/98’s. When in doubt avoid ‘67 & ‘68 discs since they used weird and even more rare dual piston calipers. By ‘69 - ‘70 Olds was using single piston normal GM calipers. The 69-70 rotor/hub combinations are now pretty rare. What you’ll find in the junkyard, even assuming you can find rotors, will likely be thinner than safety spec. Nothing much interchanges across from other GM brands. In 1971 Olds changed to front steering, so nothing after 1970 brakes will work. One exception is that 1971 calipers can be adapted to work with ‘70 rotors with a bit of filing.
Master cylinders have a lot more swapping range. You can use most any disc/drum master, so long as the bore is set up for the disc/drum combo. I’ve used the translucent ones from the 80’s, right now I have one disc/drum iron dual master and another with the translucent plastic reservoir so I can see how much fluid is in there. My main recommendation there would be 1) use the GM disc/drum distribution block with the integral pressure loss switch and wire it to your E-brake light. Then for the rears, install a Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve after the distribution block so you can set the rears to lock up before the fronts. I may be wrong on that goal, let others chime in. Point is get an adjustable proportioning valve for the rears.
Just to be clear, basically everything between the ball joints needs to be changed from drum to disc. You can machine the spindles, but once you have an example of how to machine it, why not use the example?
Until you have all the relevant parts, stick with front drums, but upgrade to dual master from 67 or later in the meantime. Two hydraulic circuits are vastly safer than one. I had that problem too, in my teens. The drums do work just fine, but these days leave extra room for cars that can stop better than you.
While you’re at it, consider redoing your vacuum booster. If it works, it’s old. If it’s got a hole, it can create a weird vacuum leak which can throw the engine off. Either way, having confidence in safety systems is a good goal.
The other thing to mention, which I think I have before, is that it’s a good idea to magnaflux check your A-arms (particularly lowers) when you tear apart the front end. Consider welding in reinforcements around the ball joints. Once it’s apart, you want to do all the bushings, ball joints, everything once & done. Then you know how old the refreshed system is and it _should_ be reliable.
I must mention that even after all these careful steps and modifications, my Starfire has lately been bothering me with a “clunk” which I can’t quite find. A clunk that makes me nervous, because they’re usually associated with a bushing wearing out-of-round.
On the speedo cable, I’ve retained the driver’s front wheel connection per factory. That’s the way Olds did it from ‘65-70. I have cruise controls in my cars, which complicates, but doesn’t fundamentally change the speedo cable design.
I suspect you could connect it to the transmission, but that would mean you’d need to change the calibration of the speedo head from wheel to transmission, which I’ve never looked into.
Thank you again. I'm getting all the parts together and have already received the dual master cylinder (MC36373) you guys mention on one of the threads. Chris I checked with Addco and their technician told me the rear sway bar for the starfire is Addco-934 for the rear and 706 for the front. I looked at the 934 rear on summit and the holes are different from those that would be on boxed trailing arms; I believe the holes on the sway bar face the ground instead of left to right, matching the trailing arms. I appreciate the safety tips and will acquire some boxed trailing arms for a cutlass. Thanks a bunch and have a safe weekend .
Oldsmobilekidd You will not find an off the shelf rear anti-sway bar for this car. Original ones are extremely rare. To use a rear sway bar the lower control arms must be boxed in like the 442 or the u-channel will just bend when you tighten the bolts.
Ok thank you. I will be looking into 1966 or 67 442 boxed control arms.
The '66 big cars came with a front sway bar. I've changed the links/bushings along the way as needed, but never found the front sway bar inadequate. If Addco makes a larger diameter front one, that might be worth looking into, but you'd then need special mounting brackets to fit it to the frame and whatever bushings/links they recommend. The big choice with the factory front bar is rubber vs. polyurethane bushings. These days I'm using rubber, but polyurethane deflects less and probably helps the handling just a bit. Now that I think of it, one of the cars may actually have poly. Neither choice is bad and changing them is cheap & quick.
Just for fun I once ran my 98 with the front bar disconnected. It was wallowing all over the place. I think the experiment lasted 10 minutes. It was safe enough, but the handling was awful. So the front sway bar is useful and the factory did it right.
As to the rear bar, I think you've figured out that Impala stuff doesn't work. This is kind of a refrain in the big Olds world. You'd think it would work, but it mostly doesn't.
My Addco rear sway bar is bolted with U bolts to 2 "ears" that hang down below the lower rear trailing arms and allow the bar to sit under the rear axle. Some here at the site don't like the look. I agree it's not pretty, but it works just fine. Point is, figure you'll be connecting the rear sway bar to the "ears" and then the "ears" to your lower trailing arms. Hope that completes the picture.
Enjoy the projects & the car. Don't be shy about asking for help. It's great to pass along what little I've learned.
Yes Chris I believe this particular one has the ears. Not concerned about the looks since it will be under the car. Just want better handling. I will keep you posted and thanks for all the advice.
Sounds like we agree on form over function. At the age of 56, I grew up with cars that had more precise handling than they designed for in the 60's. I like that precision. There's only so far you can go without fighting GM's 1966 design intent, but I've done what I can. The big modifications are rear sway bar, front discs and a quick ratio steering box. That gets you most of the way without abandoning the 60's completely.
The next steps for me, just as a test, was polyurethane bushings all around on my Starfire. I did that during the intial restoration, but went back to rubber after 2 or 3 years. They were just too hard and it felt like I was fighting the design. I've been happy with rubber ever since, excepting possibly the front sway bar bushings.
The bushings are kind of the same thing with LED peanut lights in the dash. They work great, but don't have quite the right yellow glow that the incandescent peanut lights had in the 60's. I tried LEDs and went back to incandescent. Hope that makes sense.
While I'm on lights, the stock taillight bulbs are 1157's which put out 3 watts of brake and turn signal light. You can optionally use the 2057 or 2357 which offer about double the wattage, at the cost of needing to replace the more often. I'd rather have bright taillights to keep people from hitting that impossible-to-replace tail panel.
While you're working on the rear of the vehicle, I can recommend gas shocks and depending on your rear springs refreshing those too. That way you know how many miles are on the suspension pieces. While you have it up in the air, that's a good time to look at the rear brake lines too, and fuel rubber and hard lines.
I had a compression check on the 66 starfire because my mechanic was unable to advance the timing and it was surprisingly 165-175 across the board. It doesnt have good power so he thinks the timing marks are not properly lined up. I have a DUI ignition and new wires and plugs and new gas. It sat for a long time i'm sure for some years. Any thoughts?
Good news on the compression check. If you don't have that, anything else you do, anything else you do may not have much effect. Your range sound just about right for a not-new engine. It's weird that your mechanic "couldn't" advance the timing. I hope you mean he heard a knock & backed the timing off when he heard it. Physically these things have tremendous range of adjustability -- up to 360 degrees of spin with wires disconnected... but the range of timing adjustment for the engine to run right is really just 10 degrees or so, not a big range.
There are others here who are waay more knowledgable than me, but I'd probably confirm top dead center vs. timing mark and make a new one if need be. It shouldn't be needed, but it's smart to confirm that TDC is exactly TDC. CHeck youtube on how to do that, I'm sure there's vid on that. Once you've confirmed the accuracy of the timing mark, you can move on to distributor and carburetor.
I tend to set the initial timing on my cars at around 10-12 degrees advanced with the RPM's set at 750-800 with distributor vacuum disconnected. If you're somewhere near that and the engine is not knocking, you're probably o.k. on timing. You or your mechanic will need to use a dial back timing light to get total timing. Mine are a little lower than optimal at about 30-32 degrees total timing at about 2800-3,000 rpm. Mainly I try to get as much timing in these engines as I can with out knocking. There's a lot more to say, but if you hear a knock at mid-range or high rpm's back off the timing until it stops.
Next up is the carburetor & intake. Dig around on classic Olds for qjet recipes, I've posted a bunch about which jets/rods & so on, but one big thing is to make sure there are no vacuum leaks - either in the carb or on the intake manifold. It's probably time for a rebuild or new carb, your call. For carbs I like qjets, but there are many options and opinions.
Carbs use vacuum to read the driver's engine demand, any vacuum leaks screw up metering & how the engine runs. Old carbs are also usually very dirty - often to the point of oily, crusty crap inhibiting movement of parts that are supposed to move freely. So you get 1 or 2 of those paint cans of carb cleaner and let it soak - but just the metal parts. Any plastic parts have to be removed so they don't disintegrate in caustic cleaning solution. A common source of mechanical wear & vacuum leak are the throttle rods in the carb baseplate - they move every time you touch the gas and eventually the throttle rods wear leaks into the baseplate holes they run through.
Welcome to tuning world. I hope you have time & patience to learn. Get the igntion close, then move on to the carb. While you're at it, check out Engine Masters on Motor Trend TV. Loads of tips there and they avoid the usual reality TV BS.
Thx Chris, I forgot to mention I have a new edlebrock intake and 600 cfm carb (may not be a good carb for it). My mechanic removed the timing cover and it has a double timing chain and the top mark on the gear was about 10 degrees left of the center mark so all the timing marks are not properly lined up. I will be replacing it with a stock timing chain and hopefully after lining everything back up will be able to adjust timing better and get more power. Any recommendations on a carb other than the original, which I don't have?
Thanks again,
Timing of cam to crank being off will certainly do a number on loss of power. Good discovery. While you’re in there consider replacing the harmonic balancer if the age of yours is unknown. The rubber insulating ring eventually cracks and wears out, so at least check yours for wear. When the outer ring separates from the inner one after the rubber goes, it makes a helluva racket.
A 600 CFM carb is on the small side for a 425. Even factory they came with 750 CFM qjets. The smallish carb should get better than average mileage - like 11-12 mpg around town and maybe better than 15mpg on the freeway. But power will suffer.
If the Edelbrock is a spreadbore (qjet) design, the carb will do for now. If its a square bore, you may be giving up some fuel economy. I recommend you consider a quadrajet from either SMI or someone like them. I’ve been getting rebuilt/tweaked qjets from SMI since 2010 or so and I’m very happy with their quality. When tuning, it’s great to know that the carb is working correctly so you can focus on the tune, and not chase aging/busted carb parts.
I use later model Rochester 800 CFM qjets (170-series post 1975 with center fuel inlet) in my big blocks, but they’re bored over 455’s so they might be able to use that last 50 cfm. Truthfully that last 50 cfm is probably in a rpm range my engines rarely see — more than 4000 rpm. A 750 will work great for you too.
Be aware qjets have a large world of possible tuning combinations. It takes a while to get to the combo that works best for your engine. Having been down this road, I’d be glad to share what I’ve learned, but I’m no expert. Just an interested amateur.
Hope you’re enjoying the project. My garage is getting cold so I’ve been putting off adjusting my passenger door window to get rid of some wind noise. Hopefully this week.
Sorry for the late response got tied up a bit. Thanks for the info about checking the harmonic balancer- you were right it was worn and the rubber was actually starting to come out. I haven't gotten a chance to do anything else or get the timing components back in yet but i'm hoping the loss of power was from it not being lined up and as I said I purchased a single chain and the marks are way easier to line up now. I will be putting on a bigger carb as well thanks for that website. Anyway hope you get around to the window adjustment on yours soon. Thanks again for your expertise and Happy Holidays to you and your family.
Need help. 66 starfire, 425 engine car sat for some years. Lowest compression on a cylinder was 160 the rest were like 170, 175. New distributor, edlebrock intake, plugs, wires, timing chain and harmonic balancer. edlebrock 600 cfm carb which i'm changing to 750. The exhaust is rusted out but was trying to get it running right first before I replace the exhaust. car has 90K on it. My problem is it has no power on acceleration. that 425 should be smoking those tires. Transmission changes out fine. I'm at a loss here any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Looking for a windshield wiper switch, have most of it.
For some reason it was removed and the core is missing.
Anyone have the OEM number handy or if they share with other GM models?
Thank you
Looking for a windshield wiper switch, have most of it.
For some reason it was removed and the core is missing.
Anyone have the OEM number handy or if they share with other GM models?
Thank you
The parts book shows this as # 1993607 and it fits 1966 Oldsmobiles (except Toronado ) with a round wiper motor .
It also fits 62 thru 65 with 2 speed wiper (exc F-85 )
And according to GM parts wiki , it also fits 63 & 64 full size Buicks with 2 speed wipers .
Last edited by Charlie Jones; Jan 28, 2021 at 07:48 PM.
Thanks for the part number again Charle, I was able to get one for $50 from a place called Chicago Muscle Cars.
The push button was a bit different but was able to remove the push button and shorten the stem that the replacement switch came with.
All in all it wasn’t a terrible project and sure makes a guy happy to turn the key, click the switch and have wipers move and park. Kinda like winning the super bowl IMO.
Next up, get the windows moving.
