jensenracing77

In 1970 did all cars come with front floor mats? I see where the back ones were an option but am not seeing anything for the front. If an option was it on the broadcast card?

Hairy Olds

B-32 was an option, not sure if they would showup on a Fisher broadcast card.

firefrost gold

I don't think so that why it is the little add on manual

oldspackrat

Both front & rear were optional. Here is the sticker from my Rallye, came with fronts but not rears.
IMG_20150410_080747_075_zps489cf037.jpg

IMG_20150410_080809_329_zpscc518da1.jpg

jensenracing77

So if judged it would be better to not have any floor mats than crappy condition originals or wrong ones? My cars interior was untouched other than the console and shifter removed. I wonder if my car even had them to begin with or removed in it's first 10 years of life.

Allan R

Eric, I hardly think that floor mats (B32 and B33) will make or break a judges ruler. Since they were options and the repops are identical to the originals I'm not sure why it's an issue. They can certainly be removed prior to judging if that's a real concern to you. They were there for a reason - keep the carpet from being soiled. Drive the car to a show with them in, then remove them at the show to reveal the carpet underneath. Personally I like the mats (bought them from PP a few years back) and I don't think they detract from the car at all. Would be great if repops were available in all the original OEM colors though.

Ctls442

I emailed a relative of mine who owns Creative Colors International (they restore vinyl). Will relay what he says regarding options for restoring original color floor mats (other than black).

jensenracing77

They don't make blue mats or I would get some. I have never really got into the judging thing and still not that concerned with it. I just figured with a fresh car I would at least find out what my options are. For the show I will likely just leave them out. My car is not likely going to do that well anyway. This will for sure be the last time I even try for any judging score because I am just not into it.

Part of this concern come from my 91 442. Again, I did not care about the judging but I missed BOC because of a smudge on a clutch pedal. With this being my only time to try it I don't want something silly like a floor mat to knock points off.

firefrost gold

I have been told that you have to pull mats to show carpet ??

1970cs

Eric, with only 10-20 minutes to judge, I doubt that floor mats would be an issue? Are you showing the window sticker also?

The black ones in my opinion that they are a service replacement and would be OK.

But I was also deducted for having a non AC delco oil filter. Which is a service replacement part.

Pat
Senior OCA judge.

jensenracing77

I wish I had the window sticker. I have the broadcast car but never got a window sticker with the car. The original owner (or the wife of) said she may have it but has not located it yet. I have a set ob black ones that are much nicer than the blue ones I have. I may just do the black ones.

Dave Siltman

Now you see why I hate (despise actually) judged shows. Been there, done that. Won 'em, shoulda won 'em, won 'em when I shouldn't have won 'em. Too political and not winning because of a smudge on a pedal? Gimme a break. I know a guy who missed a perfect 1000 score because his washer bottle wasn't exactly filled to the specified line on the bottle. And this is supposed to be fun?!? Eric, get your mats and have fun with your car. Unless you are chasing points to fulfill a fantasy or enrich the value/price of your car, I say phooey on it. I know there is at least one vendor who has blue mats because I've seen them in a Camaro....had the GM logo, too.

jensenracing77

That is all why I don't get into it. I am only going to this time because it is a fresh car and is my first and last to be restored to this level. It is a little like my MX racing days. I sold a 72 442 W-30 with under 20,000 miles on it to build a race bike. I was a good rider and wanted to see if pro class was possible for me. I had no interest in going pro, just wanted to see if I was capable. After one season I figured out what I could do and was satisfied. I turned down 3 offers for a full ride for the next year. Now back to Oldsmobiles... My car looks good in the pictures but it is far from a national show winner when you see it in person. I know I can not build a car at that level, Just wanting to see what level I am capable of. I will likely enter another car in the future but it will be back to the fun side and not care what points I get.

As far as value goes, Having it judged will likely hurt me more than help me.

Dave Siltman

I love your outlook Eric; very realistic and down-to-earth. Those ultra-high-level restorations are nice and deserve the recognition they receive and there is a place for them in this hobby. I appreciate the time, labor, and money it takes to have a car at that level, but in the end, most of the time the owner and the car become "married". Very little time is spent using and enjoying the car after those type restorations. More time is spent primping, worrying, detailing, worrying, inspecting, worrying, and then worrying some more. I am not in a position financially to have my cars restored to the level it takes to be a National Event winner and I'm OK with that. My hat is off to those fellow enthusiasts that CAN afford to "play" at that level, and WITHOUT those guys and gals, we wouldn't be able to see just how nice some of our cars can be. I don't pretend to be anything I am not, and I sense you are much the same. In the time I've "known" you, you were always 110% honest and have always dealt with total transparency and integrity and I enjoy doing business with you. I don't think having your car judge will detract in it's value whatsoever; in fact, quite the contrary. Knowing what needs attention and why points were deducted is a great way to see what others see that you either missed or didn't feel was necessary. "Judging" (pun intended) from the photos of your ongoing restoration, I think you will do quite well.

jensenracing77

lol, I have friends freak out when I let my wife drive the cars, they ask if I am worried about it. I just say "No, that is what insurance is for".

Tedd Thompson

I have lost points for having the incorrect rear mats in my car at ether the nationals or a regional meet can't remember which. The mats were advertised and sold as replacement for the original in style and color and had the Old's fifties logo embossed in them. My carpet is a deep red and black just looked wrong to me. Judge said he had never seen red mats before, ether had I but I've never seen a another car like mine with red interior. Anyway the point of all this is judging is such a subjective inaccurate practice.If you chose to play that game figure on some controversy. The real reason I played the game was to get my car as good of original condition as I could afford or physically could accomplish, once done I moved on to the more fun part of the game driving the thing as it was met to be..... Tedd

jensenracing77

Don't have to worry about controversy on my side. I am only using it as a reference. If something was wrong it really is not a big deal to me. I would like to get the best I can but it is not worth getting upset for a smudge on a clutch pedal.

jensenracing77

Just for the record. They deducted 4 points for not having floor mats. If it is an option I am not sure why they do this? They also deducted 5 points because it is a stripe delete car. I don't have factory documents to prove it but I have original pictures from 1971. That was not good enough. Please understand, I am not complaining at all. Just letting you know.

1970cs

OK Eric, IMO that if there was no documentation of the stripe I get that and they were not to brutal on the point deduction.

But by the same token the floor mats were an option, again without the window sticker how could they deduct for something that may or may not have been ordered????? Again, IMO that those points should be rescinded.

Yet again, here we go with mine, they deducted for rust on the exhaust manifold hardware! But this time Mike Pruitt was on the hunt for mine and caught it and rescinded the points before the end tally. So kudos goes out to Mike for being diligent. Again my biggest gripe is that we have discussed the rust on the exhaust pieces as being non issue at the judges meeting for the last 4 plus years running.

This years meeting was not with out issue with no speaker system and we ran over with the meeting so I was not going to stand up and put on my little rant and rave about dinging cars for detail. OK detail is a general statement, you found something where and what did you find? Again, I received this years sheet back, detail and no explanation I had 5 points overall just for detail. I will give the team credit for catching something that was on my car for years and was never caught by the previous groups. Door edge guards that match the factory trim so close it's hard to tell. They asked and I told them the truth.

When we deducted for points for anything, we put location and what we found. So that the owner can see and know what to correct for the next time.

Pat

jensenracing77

I fully understand them deducting because of the stripe delete with no documents to back it up. I just wonder if they deduct a W-30 car if it don't have factory documents to prove it is a W-30?

1970cs

I agree with what your saying! But as I was told by our zone rep whom is a master judge. "You have to judge as what it is being proposed as, unless there is something that raises a red flag"

So yours according to the class 13E 1970-72 performance closed. So by rights Ralley 350, 442 and or W30 and W31. So by rights a clone could compete against a real whatever is in the class. I would like to think that most judges in that class can at least decode VIN and cowl tags. Unless it's a 72 which can only be truly identified by an original window sticker, broadcast card or in the case of the W30 X in the VIN.

But then again, we can not get simple issue of the rust on the exhaust out of equation.

Pat
OCA master judge

wr1970

Okay how do you judge a clone versus a real deal car? The more i read the more i see no way would i attempt to build let alone enter a event where the merit of the car is second to a smudge!LOL

1970cs

Well as it is without any docs. Any w30 except 72 VIN could be considered as only a 442. So without getting the numbers from engine, transmission etc.

Transmission cannot be considered as we have the one knee rule. No crawling underneath the cars.

As for judging we go against the sheet! So each car is judged by the sheet, a maximum of 130 points can be deducted for authenticity.

Please reference judging sheet.
http://www.oldsmobileclub.org/wp-con...ior-062812.pdf

Pat