Terry Wright

Hello - does anyone on this forum know this vehicle "first hand" (link below)? Any and all comments (positive or negative) regarding this vehicle from the pictures presented and/or first hand knowledge are greatly appreciated.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...lls-ny-2696185

Thanks, in advance, for your assistance.

Ontario69Hurst

Check with Kurt Karch, Hurst Olds Club of America.

Unfortunately the VIN falls within the range of absent documentation.

Good Luck.

http://hurstolds.oldsgmail.com/69hovin.htm

Terry Wright

@ Ontario69Hurst. Thank YOU!

Andy

Looks gorgeous..that a w27 rearend? Didn’t know 69 ho had that.

FStanley

Photos of outside should have been taken outside in the sun , gold doesn't look right... but flouescent light can distort true colors.

Not one picture of the interior???

W27 if real is a transplant as it is a 1970 only option. could be just a W27 cover???


part # for Carb, distributor, heads, block, axel, trans, alterantor, etc etc etc

a lot more details are needed for this price..

1969Hurst

The seller contacted me a few weeks ago. From initial indications it does seem like a legit H/O, as Ontario mentioned the vin is in the correct 'range' for the H/O's but it is in the missing section for "Demmer" paperwork.
I agree with FStanley as the Firefrost does not seem correct, but lighting conditions can 'sway' that a bit.. Also per FStanley verify all numbers are correct as possible including Cowl tag, Tranny tag, vin on the Block & Tranny matching the vin on the dash, etc.... Looks like there are some striping items that need to be corrected as well.

70W-32

Used Car Lot

69HO43

It's clean, everything considering. However, the color and positioning of the stripes don't seem as correct in all the places as they could be. Sunlight or no. Those "green" H/O 455 scoop decals always bugged me. I think they were Osborn stuff IIRC. At least he got the correct sides on.

If it's a clone, it seems to be a well-done clone. Again, no interior pics sucks, and of course all the due diligence trying to match up the VIN and derivatives off the engine block and transmission needs to be followed up on. Not sure I care if he put a W-27 rear in there or not. I believe it actually hurts the value. JMO.

70W-32

If its an actual W27 rear axle, you can pull it and sell it for $12,000 and replace it with a correct O axle 3.91 for $3,000

no1oldsfan

Are there Any before pictures?

Jon442

As a former '69 H/O owner, I think overall it looks good. There are a number of things to nit-pick, but nothing major. Factory a/c is rare. I agree on the stripes. They look a little too brown to me. The gold stripes on a '69 have just a hint of a greenish cast to them. If you can reach Kurt, he is The Man when it comes to these cars.

no1oldsfan

Any car that wants 100 grand plus but cannot show me what it was before. Never happen

69HO43

You could. In fact, I'd probably do that because IMO, there's no real use for that W27 under a 69. That's a pretty good idea, actually. Some people may not care what rear is under the car, though. But honestly, the W27 rear end never did wow me. I'd rather sell it to a 70 W-30 guy or something who could use it. Don't even know what rear gears are in there anyway at this point. And you probably will have as much luck finding a "correct" 3.23 H/O coded axle for an H/O (A/C cars only got 3.23) as you would finding another W27 rear end. H/O got their own rear end letter codes. 3.42 and 3.91 came in non-A/C cars only.

Terry Wright

Thanks everyone for your comments. I've reached out to Kurt and will be reaching out to the owner for interior pics and before/after pics along with verification of "numbers matching". Any and all comments appreciated!

BangScreech4-4-2

Wasn't long ago these cars were going begging at half that price.

FStanley

and while he's at it, pics of trunk, trans misoin tag, axel stamping, Head casting letter, block casting letter and number, distribuor, carb, alternator numbers and pics and and and..

Andy

This is the Hemmings May report, when you see listings rise 25% and auctions up 30% you have to ask yourself when will the market reach saturation and you have more cars than buyers start happening..? I follow estate auctions on hibid, so many people checking out and leaving cars behind for the estate to sell. Me personally am being very cautious on buying at crazy prices..it easily could bite you hard..For me this is my hobby not a business so I just want to be prudent on buying.. I enjoy finding a good deal now and then for a quick flip, its more the thrill of the hunt..

69HO43

Here's a couple things to look for on the cowl tag:

The build week code. 03D to what I'm remembering for some reason, 05E. That was the build week code range on these cars, not the conversion dates. I think they were into June on conversions. Kurt or someone else may have more detailed info on that, but pretty much can tell you my car was built 03D and was car #43 at Demmer, and fell in at #37 in the sequential (known) VIN heirarchy. What's weird is cars #44 and #45 were actually lower VINs than mine.

They honestly didn't make a slew of white 442s with black buckets in 69. So while not an exact science, the 930 and 50 50 paint codes need to be there regardless. Sometimes you see a "50-50" or "50 50" for the white paint. Most of the time "non-pallette" colors are designated with a dash, but I don't buy into the notion that the dash meant anything here, like gold stripes since Demmer put them on, not GM. So why should Fisher care? Makes you wonder, though. Someone put that dash there for whatever reason. May have been on early cars? Who knows.

Also, the car had to built in Lansing. And they have a Cutlass body designation of 33687, although they were born 442s by the VIN. Standard procedure at the time.

Car #43's Cowl tag:

69Oldsman

The conversions were done at random. Not in any sequential order. This is why the vin #'s and Demmer #'s are all over the place within reason.

69HO43

First VIN in, first VIN out did not apply, this is true. I'm going to assume they "documented" them as they came off the transport, because they were transferring responsibility and someone needed that paperwork at Olds for sure. And I doubt the transport driver was leaving without needed paperwork.

What we do know, is the last 6 and the date was scribbled on a sequentially-numbered receipt pad, and the Demmer number can only be technically the conversion number because there really isn't anything else to go by and became a de facto reference. For instance, a lower number car could have got there in the morning, sat in the parking lot all day, and then converted the next day, while car that got there 10 minutes ago could have driven straight into the building for conversion that day. Who knows? Who really cares? They sure didn't. The only real benefit to having a Demmer # is to verify the authenticity that the VIN was attached to a converted H/O 50+ years later. That's it.

This is to say that there still are some authentic H/Os out there that paperwork doesn't exist for, or is yet to be discovered. If it falls in the build date range, and has all the indicators and stuff it should and none of the stuff it shouldn't, it's likely it's authentic, but not verifiable by paperwork, which paperwork just makes it easier. That's why that Demmer # has importance regardless to which VIN order it was assigned.

Ontario69Hurst

Has there been any update on verifying this HO?