After installing points, rotor and new vacuum advance in my Distributer I noticed that , when the points are the set to the a high point on the lobe of the dizzy, there is a little play back and forth when grabbing hold of the top weights ant twisting the shaft. Its enough to take the points off the high spot on the lobe and back. I'll take video so I can show the amount of play. What typically wears out on the 425 c.i. dizzy. do I need to R&R a ,say a brass gear for a steel one, or vice versa? Just curious, I don't know what to expect when I pull and re-stab if necessary. Having some spark and timing issues, not sure if its a bad wire, connection or somewhere else.

 

There will be some play when trying to turn it, maybe a 1/2 in or so. There will also be some up and down movement, but since the distributor turn CCW it pulls it down. The play you should be concerned with is side to side. The gear generally does not wear out.


The 1 degree float that you were talking about in your other post for dwell is not an issue.

 

Thanks, I wasn't sure. Also not sure how to set up dwell I have a ol skool dwell meter. I just need a youtube video to see how to set dwell. I almost always go straight for HEI upgrade. This car is staying stock so I'll need to learn how again. Seems like high school auto shop was the last time I did it.

 

You had it set in your other post within a degree.

 

First, keep in mind that the the "top weights" are actually on a separate piece from the actual distributor shaft. This is how the mechanical advance works - as the weights fling out from centrifugal force, the profile on the small end of the weights acts on the center post and forces the point cam to advance relative to the center shaft. There is naturally some play between these two parts due to the compliance in the advance springs. Once the distributor is turning, friction keeps the point cam at the "back" of that freeplay until the advance weights start to move. This is normal and nothing to be concerned about.

Now, if the actual center post of the distributor is moving, that's a different issue. It's also extremely unlikely. You can get up-and-down clearance between the shaft and the housing, which can cause erratic timing as the helical distributor gear moves up and down on the cam gear. You can buy shims to correct this.

 

Here is the VID of my points;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thilf8bdEiA&feature=youtu.be

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldcutlass

You had it set in your other post within a degree.

I had set the point gap to .019 , adjusted air fuel mixture with a vacuum guage to 20 P.S.I. and set the ignition timing with a timing light to 12 degrees. The dewel meter read 33. The car was running good, I drove twenty miles and it started get roughen up. I headed home and made it within two miles of my house and the car puttered out now I have a no start situation. I am suspecting a bad dizzy. I’ll have to start all over at TDC to determine that though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thilf...ature=youtu.be

 

That is perfectly normal movement of the centrifugal advance.

Time to start routine troubleshooting: Spark, fuel, timing, dwell, etc.

- Eric

 

Agreed, I am not sure on adjusting dwell though, maybe a good youtube video.

 

Start car.
Warm up.
Open little door in side of distributor cap.
Connect dwell meter (one wire to battery(+), one wire to battery (-), one wire to coil (-) [some have no battery (-) wire]).
Set dwell meter to 8 cylinders, or locate 8 cylinder scale on gauge.
Gently insert Allen key into adjusting screw inside distributor door.
Turn slightly one way or the other to adjust dwell. Remove Allen key between reading to take strain off of screw.
Adjust so that meter reads 30°.

There's no need for a video.

By the way, that's a cheapo set of points you've got there - could be part of the problem.

- Eric

 

I have Fuel but NO spark. I just installed new coil, condenser, cap, rotor, plugs, and points to boot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOkJP...ature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQGpw...ature=youtu.be

 

 

 

BTW I found the caps door, it all makes sense now. The little adjustment screw that was turned all the way out to its last thread on the point set. I see now hoe to get at them to make my dwell adjustment. I guess I'll start with another new set of points and condenser. After all it was running fine until I believe maybe the dwell adjustment screw back itself out. it wast tightened nor adjusted previously. And the car died.

 

You should typically set the point gap with a feeler gauge first, to get close, then fine-tune the dwell with the engine running. If the points never open or never close because the adjusting screw is set wrong, the car will never start. I'm not sure why you need new points, however. Can't you just turn the screw on the current ones back in?

 

Yeah Joe, first thing I did was turned the screw back in, but to no unveil. I set up the new points with a feeler guage, tuned everything except dwell and she ran fine, then starting acting up then died and wouldn't start. So I'll replace the points again, just not sure what brand or where to buy em. I don't want another defect set.

 

Got it. Sounds like the threads are stripped. You can't go wrong with name brands - Delco, Echlin, Standard Motor Products (but not their low-end "T series" parts). I prefer the integrated points and condensor, as its one less thing to worry about.

 

Why do I have two condensors? and do I need to disconnect on of them? I have one externaly monted on the coil hooked up and a one piece set with one on the points.

 

Why would you need to disconnect one?

The condensor on the coil is for radio noise suppression. The one on the points helps increase the life of the points in addition to suppressing noise. GM isn't in the habit of installing parts that aren't needed.

 

LMAO that's not what I meant, I thought, because you can buy point sets with or without the condenser, that maybe the condenser was relocated. I just picked up a set from Car Quest, I usually have better luck when I use their parts.

 

And, if you look, the one inside of the distributor is connected between the (-) coil terminal and ground, while the one on the outside of the coil is connected between the (+) coil terminal and ground.

Observation is very important.



Speaking of which, take a good, close look at these point sets, starting with yours:



See the really crappy staked pivot shaft and the way that the metal end of the points is riveted onto a cheap plastic center?

Now look at these El Cheapo NAPA and Standard points (probably from the same assembly line):





None of the above is very good, and any of them can be expected to malfunction at any time, including when first installed.
I used a set like this on a cross-country drive once - I tuned it up before I left NY, and the car was running like crap when I got to California. Slapped the dwell meter on it, and, damn if the dwell wasn't way off - the rubbing block had worn right off of them.



Now here are some decent sets of points, from NAPA and BWD:





Note that the contact arms are all metal, and that the NAPA points (second set) has a nice, clean pivot shaft retained by a clip, and has a separate electrical conductor strip from the spring.



Next, look at a set of good Accel points:



Notice that the rubbing block is a hard composition material, and not just soft plastic.




Here's a set of Standard Blue Streak points:



Notice how heavily they're constructed.




Finally, a set of Mallory points:



These are very well constructed, as you can clearly see. They are again using a two-piece contact arm, but the pieces are very sturdy, completely unlike the cheap ones at the beginning.

The attached images include the model numbers of the points, and their prices today, for further comparison.

- Eric

 

Placeholder post to contain image files.

 

The biggest problem I see when people install points is the adjustment screw is not centered when they set the gap with the points mounting screw. The other problem Eric didn't mention is the cheapy points won't work with the tool to adjust dwell while the car is running. So when you go to buy points take your tool make sure it actually fits the screw.

 

O.K. This helps A LOT, what I need to do is find a source for a decent set of points or a P/N# to order online. It seems right off the bat the Car Quest points are constructed like the AZ points, hopefully I'll get more than say 38 miles out if them before they go bad. But it is what these part stores have on the shelf or order from their local warehouses, I don't get it cheap *** parts! The points that I pulled off the car are better than new ones they are just corroded from twenty years or more of being on the car. I suppose I could possibly keep them and clean em up, but it shouldn't have to be this way. If nothing else I just need to find a source to acquire a decent set of points. My original points can remain in the glovebox for emergencies.

 

I've also seen people use too much grease/lube and it gets into the points and the engine quits.

 

here is the Old set of points "original" when car was acquired and the new Car Quest points

 

I can already see problems, now where to find GOOD points.

 

I fabricated the inside ground wire, there wasn't one there (black wire with red protector) and hooked the positive coil wire to the ignition breaker points. So I am missing what you mean here. Can you Elaborate? or am I missing something?
Oh yeah the new points solved the no start problem thanks for all your guys help.

 

The pos. coil wire gets connected to the resistor wire, the coil neg. goes to the points. Now you need to set your dwell to 30 and then retime the engine.

 

Ummmmm... You quoted my entire post, so I'm really not sure what you're asking about.

As for the ground wire, that wasn't what I was talking about, but you should probably replace it with the right one, as it should be a special, very finely stranded, unusually flexible wire, to allow the points plate to move without restriction.

NAPA has them for a buck and a half, so it's not a big stretch.



Glad you got it fixed. Cheap points suck.

Oh, and better quality points can be gotten from the mail order (or physical) speed shops. This guy's got some Blue Streak points on eBay, as well. $12.50, free shipping.

- Eric

 

NAPA has good quality points in their Echlin line. Your local store should be able to get them for you if they're not in stock.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Re...0052%2b2052017

 

This is what I thought and is how I wired it up Kenneth. Thanks for the NAPA link.
Sorry Erik
that's what I was trying to say, thanks for the NAPA link, I'll definitely order that.
Originally Posted by MDchanic
And, if you look, the one inside of the distributor is connected between the (-) coil terminal and ground, while the one on the outside of the coil is connected between the (+) coil terminal and ground.

I don't know what the P.O. did to the car, but there was a red wire just dangly inside the dizzy, I presumed it was just a broken ground strap (even though it was red) so I made another one. Did I hook it up correct looking at the PIC?
BTW thanks for listing all the P/N's for the available points.
Thanks Dan

 

Looks like it to me. The wire goes from the points plate to the distributor base.

I'd get one of those replacement ground wires if I were you, unless the wire you used is as soft as a piece of string.

- Eric

 

Eric,
Could you P M me that guys EBay link?
Thanks Dan

 

It was NAPA, and the link is in the post.

I'll repost it here, though: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...W42_0195026248

- Eric