Vacuum readings on Q-Jet video
February 21st, 2014, 01:28 PM
#1
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Vacuum readings on Q-Jet video
O.K. got the carb hooked up and running, I hooked up the vacuum guage adjusted the air / fuel mix 2 turns out, played with ignition timing with vacuum gauge hooked up, here is the VID;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCGPE...ature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCGPE...ature=youtu.be
Last edited by DanOldsMan; February 21st, 2014 at 01:36 PM.
February 21st, 2014, 02:49 PM
#3
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As for Dwell all I have is this thing her don't know if it will help me any
February 21st, 2014, 03:08 PM
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February 21st, 2014, 04:27 PM
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20º initial with a points distributor is too high - they are typically in the 8-12º range. Check your factory specs for the setting for your engine. If the engine doesn't want to idle well with less than 20º then I suspect you have a vacuum leak or something similar.
February 21st, 2014, 04:33 PM
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After you reset your dwell to 30, your timing should be around 7.5 at 550ish rpm with vacuum advance disconnected and the line plugged. You can usually bump it up a few degrees, but nowhere near 20.
February 21st, 2014, 04:48 PM
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Interesting
At first I thought you had left the vacuum bolt unplugged
Have you verified that the other 3 holes in the front of the cab that may have nipple tubes in some applications do not leak vacuum?
Your choke rod is a bend or two too far thru the carb link. Just the tip, sir, just the tip.
Does the choke snap shut when "cold"? I see you are in Arizona or something, but at 100F or less at the engine, the choke coil should snap that plate shut as soon as the throttle is cracked open.
I don't like to see copper fuel line. Steel ones are available.
I see you have figured out that the Fast Idle spring is caught under the screw head rather than oh say in that space between those two links like it should be- I believe.
Did you tap on the carb while setting the secondary spring wrap?
At first I thought you had left the vacuum bolt unplugged
Have you verified that the other 3 holes in the front of the cab that may have nipple tubes in some applications do not leak vacuum?
Your choke rod is a bend or two too far thru the carb link. Just the tip, sir, just the tip.
Does the choke snap shut when "cold"? I see you are in Arizona or something, but at 100F or less at the engine, the choke coil should snap that plate shut as soon as the throttle is cracked open.
I don't like to see copper fuel line. Steel ones are available.
I see you have figured out that the Fast Idle spring is caught under the screw head rather than oh say in that space between those two links like it should be- I believe.
Did you tap on the carb while setting the secondary spring wrap?
February 21st, 2014, 06:04 PM
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[QUOTE=Octania;658112]Interesting
At first I thought you had left the vacuum bolt unplugged
I have three holes in the front of the carb two have vacuum nipples and lines the third ,if there is a third nipple, is missing? Also may need blocked off.
I finally figured out how this rod connects correctly
No I don’t think it is, something I have to figure out how to address yet.
I agree I bought one, have’nt installed it yet, least of my worries right now.
Is that what I have going on here? I had the carb rebuilt at a local shop and this does’nt look right. Curious anyone have a PIC of what thiers looks like. I suspect this is a problem, question is can I fix it it or does it need replacing?
Thanks everyone else with your help too.
At first I thought you had left the vacuum bolt unplugged
I have three holes in the front of the carb two have vacuum nipples and lines the third ,if there is a third nipple, is missing? Also may need blocked off.
I finally figured out how this rod connects correctly
No I don’t think it is, something I have to figure out how to address yet.
I agree I bought one, have’nt installed it yet, least of my worries right now.
Is that what I have going on here? I had the carb rebuilt at a local shop and this does’nt look right. Curious anyone have a PIC of what thiers looks like. I suspect this is a problem, question is can I fix it it or does it need replacing?
Thanks everyone else with your help too.
Last edited by DanOldsMan; February 21st, 2014 at 09:46 PM.
February 21st, 2014, 09:05 PM
#12
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Have you verified that the other 3 holes in the front of the cab that may have nipple tubes in some applications do not leak
Does the choke snap shut when "cold"? I see you are in Arizona or something, but at 100F or less at the engine, the choke coil should snap that plate shut as soon as the throttle is cracked open.
Did you tap on the carb while setting the secondary spring wrap?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2qrI...ature=youtu.be
Last edited by DanOldsMan; February 21st, 2014 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Ambient tempature outside 68 degrees for choke
February 22nd, 2014, 08:09 AM
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Nice sharp photos
what did you take the photos with?
did you change the choke coil at all?
It is possible, especially based on the incorrect fast idle spring install [rebuilder basic FAIL by the way, calling EVERYTHING on the rebuiild into question], that the choke link pieces you have on the carb are not correct for the Toronado carb. The Toronado carb sits low, and I think that makes for a different rod from choke coil to carb link, and maybe a different link on the carb. They have numbers. I can even see the number stamped into your choke coil rod. SOMEWHERE I have written down some of these part numbers.
I have seen the choke coil rod inner end going the wrong way 'round also- it can be pushed around into the wrong position. Maybe non-Toro the link rod goes up and down vs Toro the rod goes horizontal?
Anyhow, you can manually push the choke rod one way and the other to imitate a stronger or weaker choke coil. IF a stronger choke coil solves the problem [snaps the choke ALL the way shut] then you can replace the choke coil, modify the rod to the carb [bend it to suit], or whatever other fiddling is necessary to attain joy. Be sure to read over the service manual procedures, the three round notches in the carb's link piece are there to help you bend that choke coil link to the right length.
When you open the carb ALL THE WAY there is a link that props the choke open a bit [the unloader]. But when you open the carb just enough to release the choke and fast idle parts on the RH side, and the engine is cold, the choke plate should go all the way closed. If not, look for contact between its various links and other things. It is pulled open the exact right amount by contact with the long link from vacuum can to upper secondary air valve- AFTER the engine starts and vacuum is at the can. While engine is off, the long link should NOT touch the choke long slim tang.
Usually the plastic fast idle weight/ cam has broken plastic at the bushing end. It can be epoxied or replaced as you wish. Unless it breaks off entirely though it should still function OK.
I'd be wary that your fast idle links are installed backward or upside down or wrong way 'round and/or are just the WRONG PARTS after seeing that musterbluck of a spring under the screw head thing.
That might be your entire problem- the fast idle tangs are not allowed to swivel like they should, because of that spring wire pinched in there. FIX THAT FIRST and see if the problem goes away. Even if not, that problem has to be addressed.
If the guy is local I'd be inclined to take it to him and have him explain that idiocy. Then again, if he assembled it that way and declared it "good to go" he's probably not going to be able to see how that's wrong, much less how to fix it.
what did you take the photos with?
did you change the choke coil at all?
It is possible, especially based on the incorrect fast idle spring install [rebuilder basic FAIL by the way, calling EVERYTHING on the rebuiild into question], that the choke link pieces you have on the carb are not correct for the Toronado carb. The Toronado carb sits low, and I think that makes for a different rod from choke coil to carb link, and maybe a different link on the carb. They have numbers. I can even see the number stamped into your choke coil rod. SOMEWHERE I have written down some of these part numbers.
I have seen the choke coil rod inner end going the wrong way 'round also- it can be pushed around into the wrong position. Maybe non-Toro the link rod goes up and down vs Toro the rod goes horizontal?
Anyhow, you can manually push the choke rod one way and the other to imitate a stronger or weaker choke coil. IF a stronger choke coil solves the problem [snaps the choke ALL the way shut] then you can replace the choke coil, modify the rod to the carb [bend it to suit], or whatever other fiddling is necessary to attain joy. Be sure to read over the service manual procedures, the three round notches in the carb's link piece are there to help you bend that choke coil link to the right length.
When you open the carb ALL THE WAY there is a link that props the choke open a bit [the unloader]. But when you open the carb just enough to release the choke and fast idle parts on the RH side, and the engine is cold, the choke plate should go all the way closed. If not, look for contact between its various links and other things. It is pulled open the exact right amount by contact with the long link from vacuum can to upper secondary air valve- AFTER the engine starts and vacuum is at the can. While engine is off, the long link should NOT touch the choke long slim tang.
Usually the plastic fast idle weight/ cam has broken plastic at the bushing end. It can be epoxied or replaced as you wish. Unless it breaks off entirely though it should still function OK.
I'd be wary that your fast idle links are installed backward or upside down or wrong way 'round and/or are just the WRONG PARTS after seeing that musterbluck of a spring under the screw head thing.
That might be your entire problem- the fast idle tangs are not allowed to swivel like they should, because of that spring wire pinched in there. FIX THAT FIRST and see if the problem goes away. Even if not, that problem has to be addressed.
If the guy is local I'd be inclined to take it to him and have him explain that idiocy. Then again, if he assembled it that way and declared it "good to go" he's probably not going to be able to see how that's wrong, much less how to fix it.
Last edited by Octania; February 22nd, 2014 at 08:22 AM.
February 22nd, 2014, 08:25 AM
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Nice sharp photos
what did you take the photos with?
did you change the choke coil at all?
It is possible, especially based on the incorrect fast idle spring install [rebuilder basic FAIL by the way, calling EVERYTHING on the rebuiild into question], that the choke link pieces you have on the carb are not correct for the Toronado carb. The Toronado carb sits low, and I think that makes for a different rod from choke coil to carb link, and maybe a different link on the carb. They have numbers. I can even see the number stamped into your choke coil rod. SOMEWHERE I have written down some of these part numbers.
I have seen the choke coil rod inner end going the wrong way 'round also- it can be pushed around into the wrong position. Maybe non-Toro the link rod goes up and down vs Toro the rod goes horizontal?
Anyhow, you can manually push the choke rod one way and the other to imitate a stronger or weaker choke coil. IF a stronger choke coil solves the problem [snaps the choke ALL the way shut] then you can replace the choke coil, modify the rod to the carb [bend it to suit], or whatever other fiddling is necessary to attain joy. Be sure to read over the service manual procedures, the three round notches in the carb's link piece are there to help you bend that choke coil link to the right length.
When you open the carb ALL THE WAY there is a link that props the choke open a bit [the unloader]. But when you open the carb just enough to release the choke and fast idle parts on the RH side, and the engine is cold, the choke plate should go all the way closed. If not, look for contact between its various links and other things. It is pulled open the exact right amount by contact with the long link from vacuum can to upper secondary air valve- AFTER the engine starts and vacuum is at the can. While engine is off, the long link should NOT touch the choke long slim tang.
Usually the plastic fast idle weight/ cam has broken plastic at the bushing end. It can be epoxied or replaced as you wish. Unless it breaks off entirely though it should still function OK.
I'd be wary that your fast idle links are installed backward or upside down or wrong way 'round and/or are just the WRONG PARTS after seeing that musterbluck of a spring under the screw head thing.
That might be your entire problem- the fast idle tangs are not allowed to swivel like they should, because of that spring wire pinched in there. FIX THAT FIRST and see if the problem goes away. Even if not, that problem has to be addressed.
If the guy is local I'd be inclined to take it to him and have him explain that idiocy. Then again, if he assembled it that way and declared it "good to go" he's probably not going to be able to see how that's wrong, much less how to fix it.
what did you take the photos with?
did you change the choke coil at all?
It is possible, especially based on the incorrect fast idle spring install [rebuilder basic FAIL by the way, calling EVERYTHING on the rebuiild into question], that the choke link pieces you have on the carb are not correct for the Toronado carb. The Toronado carb sits low, and I think that makes for a different rod from choke coil to carb link, and maybe a different link on the carb. They have numbers. I can even see the number stamped into your choke coil rod. SOMEWHERE I have written down some of these part numbers.
I have seen the choke coil rod inner end going the wrong way 'round also- it can be pushed around into the wrong position. Maybe non-Toro the link rod goes up and down vs Toro the rod goes horizontal?
Anyhow, you can manually push the choke rod one way and the other to imitate a stronger or weaker choke coil. IF a stronger choke coil solves the problem [snaps the choke ALL the way shut] then you can replace the choke coil, modify the rod to the carb [bend it to suit], or whatever other fiddling is necessary to attain joy. Be sure to read over the service manual procedures, the three round notches in the carb's link piece are there to help you bend that choke coil link to the right length.
When you open the carb ALL THE WAY there is a link that props the choke open a bit [the unloader]. But when you open the carb just enough to release the choke and fast idle parts on the RH side, and the engine is cold, the choke plate should go all the way closed. If not, look for contact between its various links and other things. It is pulled open the exact right amount by contact with the long link from vacuum can to upper secondary air valve- AFTER the engine starts and vacuum is at the can. While engine is off, the long link should NOT touch the choke long slim tang.
Usually the plastic fast idle weight/ cam has broken plastic at the bushing end. It can be epoxied or replaced as you wish. Unless it breaks off entirely though it should still function OK.
I'd be wary that your fast idle links are installed backward or upside down or wrong way 'round and/or are just the WRONG PARTS after seeing that musterbluck of a spring under the screw head thing.
That might be your entire problem- the fast idle tangs are not allowed to swivel like they should, because of that spring wire pinched in there. FIX THAT FIRST and see if the problem goes away. Even if not, that problem has to be addressed.
If the guy is local I'd be inclined to take it to him and have him explain that idiocy. Then again, if he assembled it that way and declared it "good to go" he's probably not going to be able to see how that's wrong, much less how to fix it.
Last edited by DanOldsMan; February 22nd, 2014 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Photos are my Android Bionic (its a bit dated but Thanks)
February 22nd, 2014, 08:29 AM
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I guess a good breakdown diagram would help. I have some manuals But they are Chilton's and are general and vauge as they cover most GM cars for a time year period. If anyone has PIC's of their Toro Q-Jet they would like to share it may help too.
Thanks Dan
Thanks Dan
February 22nd, 2014, 09:48 AM
#16
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Posts: 7,286
I have mainly 1968 and up carbs underfoot
They use a different pair of fast idle links and a taller screw with multiple turns of spring around it outboard of the links:
one '67 unit I found:
it appears to be about the same as yours
I know those links have to be free to move
My carb tidbits database is lacking fast idle cam stamping numbers on the pre-68 units, never got time to tear 'em down.
In your photo above though I see a closed choke plate.
It looks like maybe that one coil is supposed to reside under the screw head, perhaps the inner tail end then protrudes into a hole in the outboard fast idle link, making the connection? That would mean the it's a shoulder screw and there is room for the wire without pinching it and preventing movement of the two fast idle links.
"I guess a good breakdown diagram would help. I have some manuals But they are Chilton's and are general and vauge as they cover most GM cars for a time year period. If anyone has PIC's of their Toro Q-Jet they would like to share it may help too.
Thanks Dan"
=======================
Chilton's and the like are practically useless unless you work on a wide variety of vehicles. And already know most of the stuff.
Are you saying you have not yet signed up at wildaboutcars.com for FREE and accessed the chassis service manual carb pages? Printed a few for refernece, all that? If that is the case, then that is your homework for today.
You can also get a paper copy or CD copy of the CSM [Chassis Service Manual] from epay, etc.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Oldsmob...fa8385&vxp=mtr
Pretty much ALL is revealed therein.
The WAC.com advantage is that you can have the pages you need.... RIGHT NOW. Oh, and it's F-R-E-E.
They use a different pair of fast idle links and a taller screw with multiple turns of spring around it outboard of the links:
one '67 unit I found:
it appears to be about the same as yours
I know those links have to be free to move
My carb tidbits database is lacking fast idle cam stamping numbers on the pre-68 units, never got time to tear 'em down.
In your photo above though I see a closed choke plate.
It looks like maybe that one coil is supposed to reside under the screw head, perhaps the inner tail end then protrudes into a hole in the outboard fast idle link, making the connection? That would mean the it's a shoulder screw and there is room for the wire without pinching it and preventing movement of the two fast idle links.
"I guess a good breakdown diagram would help. I have some manuals But they are Chilton's and are general and vauge as they cover most GM cars for a time year period. If anyone has PIC's of their Toro Q-Jet they would like to share it may help too.
Thanks Dan"
=======================
Chilton's and the like are practically useless unless you work on a wide variety of vehicles. And already know most of the stuff.
Are you saying you have not yet signed up at wildaboutcars.com for FREE and accessed the chassis service manual carb pages? Printed a few for refernece, all that? If that is the case, then that is your homework for today.
You can also get a paper copy or CD copy of the CSM [Chassis Service Manual] from epay, etc.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Oldsmob...fa8385&vxp=mtr
Pretty much ALL is revealed therein.
The WAC.com advantage is that you can have the pages you need.... RIGHT NOW. Oh, and it's F-R-E-E.
Last edited by Octania; February 22nd, 2014 at 10:05 AM.
February 22nd, 2014, 10:10 AM
#17
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 59
Thanks Octania,
This gives me an idea of the spring placement, I actually just went out repositioned mine like your photo. interestingly with the cool morning temps (55 degrees) ,the vacuum nipple (I canabalized from an Edelbrock 1406) and the repositioning of the spring (which looks more like safety Wire) without starting the car (want to see cold operations) It looks like it may be springing back when the throttle is fully depressed and released. Here is a video of where I'm at now, you tell me what you think
Thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v3e0...ature=youtu.be
Thanks for willdaboutcars.com got the service manuals , I never would've guessed they are FREE
This gives me an idea of the spring placement, I actually just went out repositioned mine like your photo. interestingly with the cool morning temps (55 degrees) ,the vacuum nipple (I canabalized from an Edelbrock 1406) and the repositioning of the spring (which looks more like safety Wire) without starting the car (want to see cold operations) It looks like it may be springing back when the throttle is fully depressed and released. Here is a video of where I'm at now, you tell me what you think
Thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v3e0...ature=youtu.be
Thanks for willdaboutcars.com got the service manuals , I never would've guessed they are FREE
Last edited by DanOldsMan; February 22nd, 2014 at 12:19 PM.
March 1st, 2014, 04:39 PM
#18
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 59
Update I did a basic tune-up, minus the points ( I haven't quite figured out how to get a feeler guage in there to gap it to .019) I now have the timing at 12 degrees, the RPM's around 560 at idle. My tester for dwell is lighting up as having a bad ALT/Diode, Plus I need to install the point set. My vacuum is sitting at 17 PSI @ idle. a new vacuum advance and repairing the Positive wire off of the base of the Vacuum advance mounting screw to the Point Set Mounting screw also while in the Dizzy. She runs good at cruising speed , idle is still a little rough (hopefully new Point Set will help) Not sure if I need to invest in a dwell/tach test meter first or buy an alternator first and see If any thing improves. I do have a little, very little sputter in the needle on the vacuum gauge, may just need valve adjustment. Regardless I need advice on replacing the point set. the mechanical advance weights are in the way of allowing me to use the feeler gauge to set a gap at .019. PIC's always help. links to threads or VID's anything will help, Thanks
I assumed the red wire went to the base mounting screw of the point set, Am I correct in attaching it there?
I assumed the red wire went to the base mounting screw of the point set, Am I correct in attaching it there?
Last edited by DanOldsMan; March 1st, 2014 at 04:49 PM.
March 2nd, 2014, 10:46 AM
#19
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Point Gap set using a matchbook cover , Gave me 20 psi Vacuum reading and Ignition timing set to 9 degrees and all is good EXCEPT throttle cable is sticking or the Vacuum throttle/idle pot is sticking,
9:59 of this You Tube video shows how to adjust point gap with a screwdriver
Last edited by DanOldsMan; March 2nd, 2014 at 12:32 PM.
March 5th, 2014, 10:56 AM
#21
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Hi DanOldsMan:
The Red wire in this example is a ground wire. It needs to connect from the Distributor Frame/Ground to the moving Breaker plate.
Without a good ground, you will have an intermittent circuit because as the vacuum changes, the breaker plate will move and you will lose the ground while it’s moving.
The goal of the points are to Ground the wire (positive voltage) coming from the Coil to Ground and thus turn on the coil.
It looks like your Distributor has been worked on a bit, maybe it’s time for a new one. I just bought a new cardone Distributor for $45.00 including a new set of points.
I did take it back because the bearing was crunchy and the inaccessible Ground wire was loose, but the Second one looks good.
I am not sure what the recommended Idle is for your car. You may want to recheck the specifications and turn up the idle a bit.
On my Cutlass with a 350 / Auto, I set the Park/Neutral Idle to approximately 700-750. When in Drive with foot on the break, that will drop to 600-650 range. Idle and acceleration is smooth.
Here is a link to a DVM that includes Tack and Dwell. The price was about $55. It was worth the investment.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/a...ter#fragment-1
The Red wire in this example is a ground wire. It needs to connect from the Distributor Frame/Ground to the moving Breaker plate.
Without a good ground, you will have an intermittent circuit because as the vacuum changes, the breaker plate will move and you will lose the ground while it’s moving.
The goal of the points are to Ground the wire (positive voltage) coming from the Coil to Ground and thus turn on the coil.
It looks like your Distributor has been worked on a bit, maybe it’s time for a new one. I just bought a new cardone Distributor for $45.00 including a new set of points.
I did take it back because the bearing was crunchy and the inaccessible Ground wire was loose, but the Second one looks good.
I am not sure what the recommended Idle is for your car. You may want to recheck the specifications and turn up the idle a bit.
On my Cutlass with a 350 / Auto, I set the Park/Neutral Idle to approximately 700-750. When in Drive with foot on the break, that will drop to 600-650 range. Idle and acceleration is smooth.
Here is a link to a DVM that includes Tack and Dwell. The price was about $55. It was worth the investment.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/a...ter#fragment-1
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