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Tried getting the car out of the garage this weekend but was surprised with a no start situation.
Vehicle is 72 Cutlass Supreme with a 350. Fuel system, stock tank and lines to mechanical fuel pump, rubber line out of fuel pump to rotary style fuel pressure regulator to spectre edelbrock fuel line adapter for edelbrock 1406 carb. Fuel pressure gauge on the spectre adapter. Car wiould fire right up with some gas put into the carb. Was hoping it would somehow get the pump kicking over.
After cranking I was seeing zero psi on the gauge. Never had to crank the car much to get pressure to the carb before.
Pulled the line off the pump inlet, very easy to suck/get gas flowing out of the line. put the line back on.
Pulled the line before the regulator, can siphon fuel through there. Reconnected line.
Pulled the line going into fuel pressure gauge and got the same results. Regulator no preventing flow.
Possible problems:
1. Mechanical pump randomly gave up from sitting over winter?
2. Fuel pressure gauge clogged?
3. Carb is stuck?
Anything I can check on the 1406 carb to see if thats the issue? I guess I need to get some fuel line from pump to bucket and see if I get anything. If I dont get any fuel, its the pump. If I do something in the carb.
How common is it for the pumps to randomly go bad? Any replacements to stay away from or recommended?
#3 Unlikely, if it was stuck closed the pump would still make pressure in the line. If it was stuck open it would flood and adding fuel to the carb would make it worse instead of start.
#3 Unlikely, if it was stuck closed the pump would still make pressure in the line. If it was stuck open it would flood and adding fuel to the carb would make it worse instead of start.
Good luck!!!
Just wanted to confirm before waiting on parts. Gonna try the Carter muscle car pump i guess
Originally Posted by 66SportCoupe
Check rubber line near the gas tank and look at its condition. It might be sucking air. Or a rusty metal fuel line has a pinhole in it.
I will try and look, dont think its the case because how easily fuel can be brought through the line.
The most likely problem is that you just didn't crank it long enough. You can fill the float bowl through the vent holes in the air horn to avoid a lot of cranking. I do this with the E-brock carb on my 62 after it sits all winter. I will say that as the check valves in the mechanical pump get weak, it takes a lot longer for the fuel system to re-prime. I replaced the pump a couple of years ago and now I don't even need to fill the float bowls - it re-primes pretty quickly.
Fill the carb here. I use a syringe, but an old dish soap squirt bottle also works.
Pull the engine dipstick, smell the oil. If it smells like gas, most likely the diaphragm has ruptured. The gas is going into the crankcase instead of the carb. Replace the pump, change the oil.
Fill the float bowl on the carb. If the fuel lines and pump won’t prime after filling the carb a couple times, it’s time to dig a little deeper.
inspect the fuel lines. Make sure the rubber hadn’t split, the metal lines aren’t rusted out, etc.
My NAPA store has Carter fuel pumps in stock. I’d say call around and see if a local store has one before ordering online and waiting for shipping.
I will keep that in mind thanks.
When looking at some pictures of replacements I am seeing some with 3 lines. Might not be actual parts, but if I end up with 3 lines is the 3rd line a vapor return? I was thinking of getting wix filter with vapor return to evap canister to help with vapor lock starting issues. Would the 3 line pump do the same?
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
The most likely problem is that you just didn't crank it long enough. You can fill the float bowl through the vent holes in the air horn to avoid a lot of cranking. I do this with the E-brock carb on my 62 after it sits all winter. I will say that as the check valves in the mechanical pump get weak, it takes a lot longer for the fuel system to re-prime. I replaced the pump a couple of years ago and now I don't even need to fill the float bowls - it re-primes pretty quickly.
Fill the carb here. I use a syringe, but an old dish soap squirt bottle also works.
Originally Posted by matt69olds
Pull the engine dipstick, smell the oil. If it smells like gas, most likely the diaphragm has ruptured. The gas is going into the crankcase instead of the carb. Replace the pump, change the oil.
Fill the float bowl on the carb. If the fuel lines and pump won’t prime after filling the carb a couple times, it’s time to dig a little deeper.
inspect the fuel lines. Make sure the rubber hadn’t split, the metal lines aren’t rusted out, etc.
Will try and fill the bowls and see if anything happens. Might just grab a pump if local napa has one in stock anyways.
Just changed the oil, dont think I noticed anything other than what i suspect to be bearing material. May not actually be enjoying the new wheel/suspension mods this year after all.
The three line pumps are for cars with fuel return, which is NOT to be confused with the vapor canister line. Cars with fuel return AND evap cannisters have three lines on the frame rail. If your car doesn't have a fuel return line back to the tank, don't get a three line pump.
The OEM pump is GM P/N 6470331. That crosses to Airtex 41566 or Carter M6108 or Delphi MF0024 or GMB 5308140. RockAuto claims to have the latter two in stock. NAPA shows out of stock on any of the two line pumps.
The vast majority of all vintage cars take a bit of time to get fuel from the tank to the carb after sitting any more than a couple of weeks.
Let's say you have a good battery and starter, and you've cranked it long enough as per Joe P's suggestion. And after that you've primed the carb as he suggested and still have struck out (I use a small Dixie cup but a syringe is a better idea).
Now you want to install a new fuel pump, and you have a stock 350? Forget about the Carter pump and put a stock fuel pump on. It will have one hose connect fuel supply line and one threaded pressure line to the carb.
No fuel pumps have vapor cannister lines; those are at the carburetor.
Well got it running last night. Filled the bowls and fired up. Died and had to crank it again. Fuel pressure gauge was bouncing a lot, has done that ever since I installed the gauge, dont know if thats normal.
I ordered a pump and wix filter with vapor return from rockauto yesterday afternoon.
Well got it running last night. Filled the bowls and fired up. Died and had to crank it again. Fuel pressure gauge was bouncing a lot, has done that ever since I installed the gauge, dont know if thats normal.
I ordered a pump and wix filter with vapor return from rockauto yesterday afternoon.
You keep saying "vapor return line". As I said above, the third line from the pump is NOT a "vapor return line". It is liquid fuel under pressure being sent back to the tank. It does NOT connect to the evap canister system - doing so will run liquid fuel into that system and create a fire hazard. Also, what "wix filter with vapor return" did you order? Unless you have a dedicated fuel return line on the frame rail and a two port sender in the tank, there is nowhere to plumb that to. The vapor evap system does NOT connect to the fuel pump in any way, shape, or form.
You keep saying "vapor return line". As I said above, the third line from the pump is NOT a "vapor return line". It is liquid fuel under pressure being sent back to the tank. It does NOT connect to the evap canister system - doing so will run liquid fuel into that system and create a fire hazard. Also, what "wix filter with vapor return" did you order? Unless you have a dedicated fuel return line on the frame rail and a two port sender in the tank, there is nowhere to plumb that to. The vapor evap system does NOT connect to the fuel pump in any way, shape, or form.
I ordered 2 line pump.
Got the idea for the filter from this video as my car does struggle with restarting after sitting an hour or so. Wix 33040 iirc
Since the edelbrock carb does have anything for the canister I havent had it hooked up. My understanding was that I can hook the filter port to the canister. I will have to open the CSM and look into it more I guess.
Since the edelbrock carb does have anything for the canister I havent had it hooked up. My understanding was that I can hook the filter port to the canister. I will have to open the CSM and look into it more I guess.
Your understanding is incorrect, which is why you shouldn't get your automotive info from ZooTube. Once again, if you connect that filter tube into the evap canister, you will be pumping raw liquid fuel into the canister and thus onto the ground (in the best case) or spraying onto the exhaust manifold (in the worst case).
Your understanding is incorrect, which is why you shouldn't get your automotive info from ZooTube. Once again, if you connect that filter tube into the evap canister, you will be pumping raw liquid fuel into the canister and thus onto the ground (in the best case) or spraying onto the exhaust manifold (in the worst case).
Glad to have confirmed that before disaster.
Canister will be tee'd into pcv as i have read mentioned on this site for others with 1406 carb
Your understanding is incorrect, which is why you shouldn't get your automotive info from ZooTube. Once again, if you connect that filter tube into the evap canister, you will be pumping raw liquid fuel into the canister and thus onto the ground (in the best case) or spraying onto the exhaust manifold (in the worst case).
Reminds me of the YouTube video showing how to drill into an iPhone 7 to add a headphone jack
