Hi my name Dennis im new here and recently purchased a 1970 olds cutlass sx. I am having some overheating issues and wondering if anyone can help me out. I noticed this car has no clutch fan regular old bolt to the water pump pulley setup and has no fan shroud. it is a 4 core radiator, im reading mixed reviews about these cars coming with clutch fans and shrouds. can anyone shed some light on if it should have these factory?

thanks

 

Welcome to CO.
I believe what you are describing, on your car, in fact is a clutch fan. Your overheating problems are most likely due to the missing shroud.

 

Is it an A/C car? (Most SXes were but not all of them, so I'll ask.)
Terry

 

X2. You really need that shroud.

 

This is a non ac car I'm going to try to find a shroud asap. Thanks guys.

 

4-blade fan secured to WP with solid spacer?
they came w/o shroud probably

I recommend the shroud and clutched 6-blade fan
but, at least the shroud

GM PN 402995 is 69-72 ribbed
1968 ribless 398248 will fit probably but is '68 specific, rare, and pricey.

$104 today plus absurd shipping:
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm

 

What specifically are your over heating issues? At which condition is the problem occurring? At idle in traffic or on the highway at speed?
What if any maintenance have you preformed? Whens the last time the cooling system was serviced? Did the problem just pop up or does it have a history?

 

It happens at idle cruising or highway. Water pump was replaced, thermostat replaced 180 degree. Electric fan previously put on by original owner. Electric fan is in front of the radiator between the radiator and bumper. Not sure of that's right as any iv seen were behind the radiator facing the engine.

 

If it's overheating at highway speeds, the problem is NOT the fan. It's likely a blocked radiator. Run the car until it gets hot, shut it off, and (carefully) gauge the temperature at the bottom of the radiator. I've had one vehicle with an overheating problem like this and even when boiling over, the lower 1/3 of the radiator was cold to the touch since it was completely plugged.

Once again, the water pump is almost never the cause of an overheating problem, yet it's always the first thing replaced. I'd also be careful that the aftermarket electric fan isn't more of an airflow obstruction than an improvement. These cars didn't overheat from the factory, so something is not in original condition. Also verify that timing isn't excessively retarded. If you still have the TCS hooked up, be sure the thermal vacuum switch is working properly also.

 

Humm you have both problems. Could be a combo of things then. What do you mean by over heating? Boil over puking or just running hot? What are you using for a temp gauge? You have to be very descriptive online to get good answers.

Hopefully the electric fan is pulling into the engine compartment? But you shouldn't need electric fans on a mild street car.

What options does this SX have? I see its a non A/C car. Which 455 engine, L33, L31 or W32? which trans OG(W32) or OD.

Cooling system trouble shooting 101:
1. The "new" pump could be suspect? Wrong impeller size, wrong pump all together or the impeller is slipping on the shaft. Either way not moving enough coolant. Belt tight enough?
2. Collapsing lower rad hose.
3. Cap not holding enough pressure.
4. Timing to far advanced....EDIT...doah.... Yes I mean timing is too far retarded like the author!
5. Clogged radiator.
6. Not right coolant mix.
7. Head gasket. Is it consuming coolant?
8. Bad T-Stat. Could be bad right out of the box. Installed in the right direction, spring down?
9. Whatd I forget? As I said could be a combo of the above.

Imo if all this checks out Id install a clutch fan as well as a shroud, even though GM didnt put one on a non A/C car.

 

Thanks for all the info guys. The car is using an aftermarket sunpro temp gauge. Yes it will eventually puke out of the overflow bottle and boil in there. The car has an L33 and an OD trans. What should the timing generally be set to?

 

OK, let's back up. Please tell us EXACTLY what the configuration of this car is, since it is obviously not stock. What's been done to the engine, carb, exhaust, ignition, etc, etc. ALL of those things can impact cooling performance, and since the mind reading still isn't working, we can only assume the car is completely stock until you tell us otherwise. Again, you'll get the most accurate assistance if you provide the most accurate info. Otherwise, it's garbage in, garbage out.

He replaced the pump because it overheated with the old one. Since the overheating hasn't changed, this is unlikely to be the cause (as the original pump was unlikely to be the cause.)

Both very possible, however the cap not holding pressure would manifest itself as a puddle under the car as soon as he stopped.

Actually, timing RETARDED is the cause of overheating. This can be due to a misadjusted distributor or running ported vac advance without a TVS.

Still my number one choice.

Possible but unlikely.

Definitely one to check. A leakdown test is the best way.

Also a high probability. Pull the t-stat and throw it in a pan of boiling water for a quick check.

 

Ok the car is stock minus the exhaust it has flowmaster mufflers welded in no cats factory manifolds Heads, intake, cam, dizzy, carb, all stock as well. Not sure is the 4 core radiator is stock. No hoses collapsed, haven't checked for radiator clog, t stat or timing yet. It is not consuming a coolant either. Going to check some mentioned things today since I'm not working today. In usually working 7 days a week so finding time is tough.

 

Why did you highlight L33 and OD trans, Joe? That's the correct combination on an L33 2 barrel SX.

Non A/C 455 cars in 1972 had a 4 blade non-clutch fan and no shroud. They did not have four core radiators in general. I suspect that would be the case in 1970 as well, but I'd need to check the assembly manual to verify.

Terry

 

DOH! I saw "OD" and read "O.D."

 

What temp is it reaching?

 

Hey I have the same question! I have a 1961 dynamic 88, recently went through the engine and replaced all the gaskets that were old and crappy and leaking coolant. Also did a thorough clean of the original 3 core radiator (this is a non A/C car). I still have some overheating while idle, but when moving I am steady. When we put a fan directed at the radiator though the temp dropped bit by bit, so I suspect I need a fan shroud too (or fan clultch limitor??) Anyone know of an aftermarket shroud or a factory one which would be an easy install for 1961's??? I tend to get into the low 210's and as high as 220 if I sit idle for too long, but my temp gauge is reliable (used a temp gun to compare)

 

Two comments.

1. These temperatures are not necessarily those of an overheating engine. Why do you think it's overheating? The thermostat rating, if you're going by that, is the temperature at which the thermostat opens at, not the temperature at which the engine is supposed to operate.

Probably not totally relevant, but I had '75 Nova with a 250 Six that I owned from 1976 to 1986. In about 1978, for no reason other than because I was in college and thought it would look cool, I installed a temperature gauge in place of the idiot light. I have no idea how accurate the gauge was, but the first time I started and warmed up the car after installing the gauge, the temperature went to about 215. Since I was having no cooling problems at the time, I just assumed this was normal. Over the course of the next 8 years I drove the car all the time with the temperature always between 210 and 220 when fully warmed up. Never once had a problem. Finally got rid of the car when it had about 110,000 miles on it but it got so rusty you could see through it.

2. There is no such thing as idling "too long." An engine properly tuned with a correctly functioning cooling system, etc. should be able to sit there and idle all day long without overheating. There was never any concept of a time limit built into the concept of idling.

 

I should clarify: When the temp gets to 220 it doesn't necessarily stop on its own, thats when I decide shut down. If it sits for longer it can generally get up higher than that, I have let it get to 235 and then out of anxiety I shut the car off. I haven't let it get higher than 235. I suspect that based on how easy it was to cool the car with a direct fan, that this problem is simply an issue with the efficiency of cooling when the fan is without a shroud and with how the fan operates (slower when idle). I'd rather not have to drive highway speeds just to use the car, know what I mean?

 

Thank you.

From what you describe, yes, you have a cooling problem.

Did your car come with a fan shroud originally? If not, then it shouldn't need one now in order not to overheat. If it did, then, yes, of course, you would want to replace it.

By the way, who did the thorough clean of the radiator? If it was you, do you know for sure that there aren't any deposits or clogs? How did you thoroughly clean it? Just filling it and emptying it of water a few times might not necessarily get any hard deposits or clogs out. It might be worth taking it to a radiator shop and letting them give it a full boiling out, pressure test, everything.

 

Does the electric fan by any chance blow air FOWRARD instead of aft, thru the radiator?

Not unheard of.

 

I took it to a reputable radiator shop and got a thorough clean. The radiator itself got a clean bill of health.

The car came to ME without a fan shroud but does have the bracketing to have one. I figued someone here with an overheating problem has either found somewhere that sells factory ones or knows who/where to get an aftermarket one that fits.

 

Excellent.

Then you do need a fan shroud. I bet getting one fixes your problem.

 

Sooooo, does anyone know where I could find fan shrouds? besides scouring the local dump?? All recommendations welcome.

 

How about post #6 right up above there

come up off your $150 or so for a brand new factory unit.
If you was smart you would buy 4 or 5 of 'em and then when gm says "no longer available" you can make some money.

do you not bother to read the responses provided?

Kind of discourages further helping, don't ya know.

 

That's helpful and all, but I don't have a 69-72, I have a 61. No such part was found on that website when I checked it out. I called a oldsmobile parts shop and they told me to search the dump, I won't find one for sale they reckon.

But thanks for the advice.

 

And sorry, but THIS is why it's not a good idea to hijack someone else's thread. Frankly, I was confused over who was asking the question.

 

I agree, but I figure it's also annoying to post the exact same thread that someone just posted. Either way i was screwed for getting here late.

 

MrCnos,
I don't know about '61's, but have you tried posting in the "Parts Wanted" thread? Someone may know where to get one that may fit.

 

It may be as simple as over filling the rad. fill it only about and inch from the top.

try this and x3 on installing the shroud. Maybe loose electric fan and go with clutch as electic set -up you have may not fit the oem shroud.

 

Just did. Thanks!

 

Thanks guys. I found a shroud and clutch fan for 100.00 dollars will get that installed as well as check a few other things and report back.

 

Did you also get the correct radiator top plate? Because without it you wont be installing the fan shroud since it is different from the top plate used on non fan shroud applications.

 

Right, I was going by Post #1 here:
"Hi my name Dennis im new here and recently purchased a 1970 olds cutlass sx."

I cannot possibly keep track of the name of each subsequent poster as well... thus the confusion...

Your very own PARTS WANTED thread is a good way to get, well, parts you want.

 

Hey Dennis,
I,m new to the club also. Without getting into all the things that have already been brought up, I may have some help. I have a 1970 Cutlass SX also. My didn't overheat but got hot at times.
I didn't have a shroud and also had a secondary cooling fan. I got a new heavy duty radiator and a stock shroud. Flushed everything out and haven't had an issue since. I hope this helps.
Billy