pcard

Hey Guys: On a 1970 Cutlass with Tilt steering, sport wheel:
Before Christmas I noticed a horrible squeal coming from the steering column and decided to investigate. With the help of a friend I took the wheel off, along with the locking plate and cancel cam. I found that the cancel cam was rubbing on the aftermarket turn signal lever. I filed the turn signal lever down and my friend reinstalled the whole assembly.The car drove ok, and there was no squeal from the colomn. I only drove around the block. I noticed however that the olds emblem on the horn buttin was upside down and determined to fix that the next time I came up to Newport.
Well, I came up yesterday and today thought I would tackle the horn button. I found that I could not rotate the horn button alone because the contact plate would only work if the horn button was aligned with the three attachment prongs of the horn contact plate. So I thought I would have to rotate the cancel cam in order to fix this. I took the wheel off, the grey cover, the snap ring the locking plate and the cancel cam.
It seemed to me when taking the snap ring off that it was very easy to do compared to the last time, I hardly had to depress the locking plate at all. I cannot recall, but i think the snap ring was in the first grove on the spindle! In addition, I had to pry the locking plate up - it seemed to be binding on the grooved part of he spindle.
I rotated the cancel cam and began putting it back together and noticed that the spindle had a bit of sideways play. I removed the cancle cam and the spring and notice the bearing seat and race had come up. I pushed them back down (see picture 1), and then put the spring back on (picture 2) and the cancel cam (picture 3) and the locking plate (picture 4). Notice the position of the locking plate on the spindle
I am now trying to put all this back together, but I cannot seem to depress the locking plate enough to get the that second snap ring grove. The cancel cam bottom out on the turn signal switch and the locking plate bottoms out on the locking stud. I also notice that the locking plate seems to want to only fit on the grooves in one position.
Before I try to press the locking plate down further I wanted to ask you guys to look at these pictures and tell me if anything is glaringly worng.
I do notice that there is a nut pictured in the 1970 service manual diagramme for this column, figure 9A-65, page 9A-23. I do not seem to have this nut on my column, nor any threaded part of the spindle where it would fit.
Thanks for your help guys, right now the car is immobile and I have to get it out of the garage where it is tomorrow, so any input is welcome.
Cheers, Peter

vette442

I did the same job on my '70 SX about 9 months ago. I may be wrong (and your tilt setup may be different than my non-tilt setup), but I'm pretty sure you have the black metal locking plate on backwards in the last picture, with the center depression bumping out towards you. Put it on so that the depression faces the front of the car and you'll gain at least 1/16" towards where the snap ring meets the groove.
Terry

1970supremevert

vette442 is 100% correct, I went to auto zone and "rented " the steering plate tool, this make the reinstall a snap
autozone will rent the tool that doc 350 has in link

Doc350s

When I rebuilt my 73 column I couldn't press the lock ring hard enough by hand to seat the locking clip. They make a tool to depress the lock ring. Threads onto the steering shaft where the steering wheel retaining nut goes (mine is 9/16-18 thread). Makes it a lot easier to place the ring. Autozone has this which is similar to mine. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ier=70115_0_0_

pcard

Thanks Terry - the locking plate depression is pointing to the front, the lighting in the photo makes that hard to see.
Does the position of the locking plate in the non drepressed state look right to you in photo 4?
Should the spindle extend outwards a bit more in photo 1?

pcard

Thanks Doc - I have this tool, and tried to use it but before I could get as far as the snap ring groove the locking plate had moved in so far that it was hitting the base of the locking stud.
I just want to be careful and not do something stupid, especially since the manual calls for a nut to be between the cancel cam and the spring.

1970supremevert

I have attached a 2 pictures of the plate for the tilt column , just in case you have 2 plates sitting around ,take a close look at the plate(slight dish) hope this helps

pcard

Yes that looks like mine. I notice that it has one "tooth" missing just like mine.

Doc350s

I see what you mean about the nut. Took a look at the exploded view of the tilt column and it indeed does show a nut that mounts over the race and retainer. Specific to tilt columns as my standard one doesn't have it. Couldn't get a good sight of it from picture one. Any chance stuff has shifted up while trying to get things apart hiding the threads for the nut? The missing nut could explain the looseness as there would be more room for the spring. As far as the tooth missing, is it missing on purpose to ensure the alignment is correct. I seem to remember mine that way where one of the lands were larger.

1970supremevert

I just looked at your the pics again in picture # 3 make sure the pin located at
11 o'clock come thru one of the outer teeth openings

pcard

Yes - I have lined up the locking plate so that the locking pin will pass through one of the cutouts. The plate is hitting the base of that pin.
Thanks.

1970supremevert

Peter, you are correct the plate will on go on 1 way , I have a cloumn I am working on and I just applied some 3 in 1 utility oil to the shaft and ridges and that helps allow the plate to drop down far enough to install the clip around the lower ridge, the plate depression tool is a must!

2blu442

I've got some pictures of a non-tilt column with a sport wheel. One difference I see is the plastic sleve that comes up to contact the horn is near the 11:00 position in your pictures. It's at the 3:00 position in my pictures. The solid pin stays in the 11:00 position in both your pictures and mine. Here's a few to see what I'm looking at.

P1010219.jpg

P1010221.jpg

P1010222.jpg

P1010223.jpg

P1010226.jpg

P1010227.jpg

P1010229.jpg

P1010232.jpg

P1010233.jpg

pcard

Thanks John - one thing I notice in your pictures is that spring behind the cancle cam does not extend over the snap ring groove on the spindle. In mine it does. I am wondering if my spindle has dropped down somehow.
Also, to talk to your observation about the cancel cam plastic post - I can only put it on one way becasue the locking cam can only go on in one position.

2blu442

Hi Peter
Yes, if the cancel cam will only go on one way then that must be the position my wheel was in when I took it apart. Some of the other guys have mentioned the tool to compress the plate. If I remember right, it attaches to the center shaft then pushes down on opposite sides of the plate. Its shaped kind of like a big letter U. If the shaft has dropped in any, this tool should pull it outward while pushing the plate inward. I know I couldn't compress the spring enough to get the plate down far enough to attach the snap ring without this tool. I've also been told to never re-use the clip ring, as removing it will distort it and it may not hold tight after that. I'm not an expert, but I've taken that advice as a safety measure. John

pcard

Thanks John - I have the tool to depress the spring - I just do not want do anything bad like pull the shaft out.
Do you think it is safe for me to put some muscle in it?
The manual says to discard the ring too. I will have to reuse mine because I do not know where I could find a new one. Mine is a bit distorted already - is it a regular ring that Ace hardware store would have?

Doc350s

My parts manual shows GM part#580074 as the ring. Another number from some other sites shows as 5694191. According to GMPartsWiki it was used on a lot of vehicles right up to 88 Camaro. May still be available. Gonna check in the am.

pcard

I am still concerned that the shaft has somehow moved down, or the housing up. In reading through the manual there is an ominous reference: "Housing bearings must be in position for proper installation of housing. If bearings are out of race, C ring cannot be installed."
The C ring is the snap ring.
I am also concerned that my columnn does not have the "nut" that goes on top of the bearing seat, visible in picture 1 above.

pcard

Does anyone know of a tilt column guru or restorer that I could contact?

Thanks, Peter

MDchanic

I just read through the thread, and I will admit that I am not entirely clear on what the exact problem is (should have taken Evelyn Wood), but if the steering shaft seems as though it it too short, then the shaft probably pushed forward into the column. It's easy for it to do this, because there are times when you might push against it during disassembly, and because gravity pulls it down.

If the shaft is down, then you need to pull it back up.
Spin the steering wheel nut onto it, grab it with your fingers, and pull hard. If the shaft comes out a quarter to half an inch and stops, then there's your answer. Keep it pulled out as you reassemble and you're all set.

If you can't pull it out, go around to the front, open the hood, and look at the end of the steering column where it pokes out a couple of inches from the firewall. There is a plastic bearing carrier that fits in the end of the column sort of the way that a cap fits in the end of a cardboard mailing tube. It should be held in by a clip. If the bearing got pushed ou, then shifted down a bit, it won't want to slide back - you should be able to push it back into the center and then into the column, if I recall.

- Eric

Doc350s

X2 what Eric said. It seems to me that the missing nut would be there to retain the whole assembly together in a tilt column and prevent this. Since the shaft on a standard column goes all the way through the backdrive linkage and bottom bearing and clip usually prevent the shaft from dropping. Also shouldn't drop that much if the column is still connected to the box.

FYI - GM dealership doesn't list the 580074 part # in the master record anymore but #5694191 is still active and about $1.10 each (in Canada anyways).

1970supremevert

peter,

did you reuse your original shaft?if so make sure the shaft didn't take a impact(vertically) during rebuilding as that may have "collapsed" the shaft?
just a thought

jackedolds

Althoug my memory is foggy on this as it has been years, I believe that I had similar trouble with the tilt column in my 66. my tilt mechanism was loose (wheel wobbled) so I removed the steering wheel to tighten the tilt plate bolts (I had done this on many other cars, but not an olds at that point). When I went to put everything back together I didn't have enough shaft poking out to engage the snap ring. My column had slid down into the housing a little bit. I had to pull and wiggle to get the shaft to come back out, then I held it out while installing the remaining components, including the lock plate. I suspect what happened is the shaft fell down and the lower bearing came off the machined portion of the shaft and it took the wiggling and pulling to get it back in place and the shaft to come up. This is a suspicion as once it came back out far enbough I wasn't about to dismantle it again just to see WTH (although that is usually what I do, followed with a big groan :-)). SUmmary, try pulling, wiggling or some combination of the two to see if the column will pull back out - I suspect this is the root of your trouble.

Rocketbrian

I hopefully can shed some more light on your trouble. One thing, that nut you are talking about is not used after 1968. It is still indicated in the parts illustrations for 69-72 but is not in the 71 service manual and I have partially torn down 70 to 72s and have never seen that nut. The tilts from 69 to 72 are basically all the same. I have a 72 tilt apart now and will be disassembling a 69 for clean up shortly. So you have caught me at the right time. I took three pictures and added measurements for the distance from the top of the bearing cover to the end of the shaft and it should be 2 and 3/4 inches and from the top of the bowl to the end off the shaft is 1 and 7/8 inches. So this will tell you if the column shaft has moved down.

Also, that ring you need was part number 5697735 but is replaced by 5694191 as indicated previously.

Hope you can get this figured out.

pcard

Rocket, Jack, Eric, John, Doc: Success - thanks to your advice. I pulled on the shaft manually, and it came up about 1/8". I then put the depressor on and the shaft came out another 1/8 ", enough for me to get the snap ring on.
My horn emblem is still upside down, but at this point I don't care.
I had to reuse the snap ring - could not find one in Newport. Can they be purchased online?

Thankyou to everyone who replied!!

Cheers, Peter

pcard

Rocket - I am printing out your post with pictures and adding it into my service manual.

MDchanic

Don't waste your energy. That one'll last forever.

Glad you got it fixed!

- Eric

Rocketbrian

Glad you got it sorted out.

Brian

Doc350s

Excellent!

Rich

Gone Johnson

I thought Id post my steering wheel reinstallment experiance here in this thread, because I just had a hell of a time getting mine back on, and didnt know what to do either, and I found this thread extremely helpful. Id like to add to all the advice & instructions here, to make sure the ignition switch unlocks the steering wheel!! In my case nothing would get that shaft back "up", until I did so. Then, it was like, "@*#!, thats all I had to do??" I rented the install tool, but looking back, I probably didnt need to. Anyway, good luck to any steering wheel virgins who seek help here in this thread. I was the most helpful thing I found.

steverw

One other thought is did you actually remove the steering wheel frome the hub? if so maybe you have it on the hub wrong. If you notice the very end of the steering shaft has a small punch mark/ indention. There is also a corresponding notch on the steering hub. These two notches must be aligned together. On the hub the mark is on the shoulder just outside the splines you should see it when putting the hub onto the shaft. If its not lined up with the shaft your wheel will be off as will the timing of your turn signal canceling when you turn the car. At least thats how it is on my Vette.

pcard

On the sport steering wheel the position of the cancel cam is dictated by the position of the locking plate - which as discussed above I can only put on in one place.
The Cancel cam has the horn contact stud coming out, which in turn dictates the postion of the hub.
If I have this worn ghten please le tme know - I would love to find out why my horn emblem only works in the upsidedown position.

Rocketbrian

I checked out the couple of tilt columns I have apart and noted the following:
The cancelling cam is notched at the point where the directional lever is attached. This places the raised horn contact post at about the
11 o' clock position. Once this is set in place followed by the locking plate and the hub which can only one way as you have stated, it leaves the steering wheel to go on. It must be screwed to the hub so the horn contact assembly can be screwed on at the ten, two and six o'clock position. That places the tang on the horn contact also at the 11 o'clock position. The notches will then align with the notches on the back of the horn button.
See the pictures I have attached. It would appear if you start out with the cancelling cam in it's correct position, the rest should fall into place. The fact you had to file down the directional lever to avoid rubbing the cancelling cam suggests the cam wasn't positioned correctly, as the notch should avoid the lever attaching point.

Have a look at the pictures and check your column to see if you are in agreement with my pictures. This has got to be solved. Driving with your rocket upside down is just not acceptable and would annoy you every time you got in the car.

pcard

Brian - that is a perfect explanation - and in fact shows me where my setup is not right. Your fourth picture show the notch on the shaft at 12 oclock, the horn contact button at 11 oclock, and the horn contact plate screws at 6, 10 and 2 oclock. On my setup the configuration is:
alignment mark on shaft at 12 oclock - correct
horn contact button on cancel cam at 11 oclock - correct
horn contact plate in position with little knoby thingy on top of the horn contact button at 11 oclock - correct
horn contact plate has the screws at 12, 4 and 8 oclock. INCORRECT trotated 180 degrees.

This is what is making the emblem go on upside down.

I do no longer have access to the car - on my way home to Bermuda, so I cannot take any pictures to show you.

I guess the fix is to drill out those plastic rivets on the horn contact plate, rotate the part with the knoby thingy and then reattach.

Or I could just buy a new one.

I wonder how I ended up with a setup like that?

Thanks Brian!!!

pcard

By the way - I went to a Buick dealer in Rhode Island and spoke with the parts guy. He was very knowledgable, used his computer to pull up a diagramme of a tilt steering column for a GTO (same as in my olds service manual). He said the retaining ring part was discontinued but there is a GM dealer in New York who has a few of them - I am going to call them tomorrow. If they have them I will update you all in case anyone needs one.

Rocketbrian

Glad we got it figured out. So, it was the horn contact that was the culprit. It is like it was assembled incorrectly. Original or repro?

steverw

Maybe im not understanding the whole problem. The horn button itself contains the emblem right? Same as my Vette. The horn button can be rotated 360 degrees, you can have the emblem side ways if you want. If there are other issues thats another thing but i cannot see why your saying the emblem is upside down on a sport wheel, just rotate the horn button 180 degrees.

pcard

Steve: on mine if you rotate the button then it will not depress and push down on the contact plate. The button has three cutouts that must line up with the screws holding the horn contact assembly onto the hub. You can see this on the last two photos submited by Brian (RocketBrian).

pcard

Rich was correct - the part number for the retaining ring is 580074. There are three dealers in the US that the computer says has them in stock:
Phil's Chevrolet in NY, Philsservice@ aol.com, Vanessa 518-594-3968
Robert DeNooyer Chevrolet 616-396-2333 in MI
Friesens Chevrolet 402-773-5538 in NE
I just ordered a couple from Phil's Chevrolet.
Eric - my ring has been on and off so many times it looks like a spiral so I might as well change it.