I have a 400 E block Olds with virtually no miles on a rebuild. I got it rebuilt in a deal and was told and provided receipts for the new parts which include: cam, lifters, boring, crank turned, new pistons, new lifters, new oil pump, gaskets, timing set, and on and on with all the normal stuff. Was also provided receipts for 3 angle valve job, with new valves and guides and seals. As previously mentioned was assembled when I got it. After installing it I primed the oil system, filled the engine with water with the thermostat out and then the radiator, fired it up with fresh oil (chevron 10-30 with zinc additive) broke in the cam. Drove the car to town and back, about 10 miles total. Have fired it up and ran it several times since and it smokes out both banks blue smoke sometimes pretty heavy. It runs awesome and has lots of power and no abnormal sounds or issues. It has kept me stumped for some time now. I was thinking ok maybe the mufflers are full of oil (had that issue on a Camaro several years ago). Today I changed the oil and it was very thin I thought. It did not smell bad or like anything but oil. But, it was almost like when a fuel pump is bad how it makes the oil thin by getting fuel in the oil. But it was not excessive amount and did not smell of it. Fuel pump is new but I also am aware new does not mean good.

I also checked the timing and it was way too advanced. Like way off the scale. I disconnected and plugged the vacuum to the distributor and reset it to 8 and it did not like that much so brought it up to about 11 and it runs good. I have not run it much since then but plan to drive it some to see how that effected it.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks
Larry

 

https://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/breakin.php

I've seen this procedure used for a good break in or variations of it. Basically you are loading the engine (about 3/4 throttle) and then backing off and letting it coast in gear.
Idle to 3000rpm
idle to 4000rpm
idle to 5000rpm
Ten times each and it should be good to go. You don't want a steady rpm but fluctuate it and let the engine do the braking

 

Problems like this are not easy to diagnose here. Perhaps the intake manifold gasket did not seal or was installed improperly letting oil travel into the intake ports. Blue smoke is oil. Who knows what rings were used or what assembly care was taken. Perhaps the shop does not turn out quality work or someone screwed up...

 

The ring issue is one I have been thinking of too. However it runs very well, has incredible vacuum and no blow by. The intake did cross my mind. I am thinking of driving it on a 300 mile round trip to see what happens.

 

It could be stuff in the exhaust burning off. It could be the PCV sucking oil out of the valve cover. What kind of vacuum is it pulling?

 

I have recently completed a cam swap on my 67 400ci, seasoned motor with 5-6k miles, and developed smoke out of the exhaust. A lot actually!! The only thing that I've done differently was use Mondello Cross Over Block Off Plates and I wasn't very happy by the way the manifold fit. The car developed the smoke about 80-90 miles of driving. Car has lots of vacuum and has tons of power!
I believe I have a bad sealing intake manifold gasket because of these plates. I have another post with DRXOLDS who has the same issues and I'm gonna contact him to figure this out......
Your engine has the same characteristics as mine!

FYI, I went through replacing all the valve seals thinking I broke one or cracked one. Didn't fix it! Are your spark plugs fouling out fast? I'm gonna pop the manifold off in the next couple days, but I'm gonna get some direction from DRXOLDS before I put mine back together!
Hope I helped....

 

If the heads & block have been cut,it may be that the intake pan gasket isn't sealing. I never use the OEM style intake pan gasket,I use a good aftermarket composition gasket & I never use the rubber end seal gaskets either. I use silicone on the end rails for a much better seal. If they used cast rings,it may take some driving to get them seated & the rings seal faster under a load,not idling. It could be the valve seals also. There's so many things it could be,so be patient and you will figure it out.

 

Thanks guys. I am thinking one of two things so far. 1- the timing was way advanced (my fault but have corrected) will drive it over the next few days to see what it does. 2- the intake gasket. It runs very well. It does have lots of vacuum. I pulled the pcv valve and taped it and it sucked a hole in the tape. I plugged the vacuum lines to the trans and nothing there. Thinking it was maybe a bad vacuum modulator.

I will keep you posted and let me know what you find also.

 

Since it runs wonderfully, I wonder if they used the wrong valve guide seals or something. It has nothing to do with coolant, and nothing to do with compression, and there's no exhaust leaks, and they wouldn't F up both head gaskets, would they?

Edit: Or the intake gasket like said above.

 

My first check would be to see if it even has valve seals. Valve stem to guide clearance is another thing to check.


When I had problems with sealing the intake bathtub gasket, it would lose power when on the secondaries from the leaking. I always resurface the intake side of the heads now, and if you have a very good shop, you can resurface the intake manifold too. I use spray copper on the port areas of the gasket, and RTV around the water ports and the front and back rails.


I have always used the steel bathtub gasket, even with an aluminum manifold.

 

You didn't say after taping off PCV whether it smoked or because of hole in tape didn't try again. Do the valve covers have baffles in them?

 

stock valve covers with baffles, disconnecting and blocking off PCV and vacuum to trans module no change in smoke. Today i will drive it some to see if the timing made any difference. If not I have decided to pull the intake to see if that is it. it makes the most sense. I will keep you all posted and thanks for the input.

Larry

 

Can you see a drop in your oil level?

 

I spoke to Greg at Supercarsunlimited.com Yesterday about this. He said there was a run of lifters for these engines that did not have the check valve in them and it caused this issue. He said with the valve covers off it would shot oil across the shop yet showed very low oil pressure. I am going to check this out in the next day or so. If that is the case then new lifters will be installed.

I will let you all know what happens

 

What kind of lifters did you use? Falcon? I'm having similar issues with my camswap. I've noticed under my valve covers, squirting marks of high oil pressure. Just wondering if we used the same lifters because our smoking issue is similar.

 

I am just commenting so I can keep up with our updates.
I am trying to learn as much as I can.
Thanks

 

Once the cam is broken in with a set of lifters, those lifters should remain mated to the lobe they were on. Hopefully you cvan add a metering valve or plate to the lifters you have.

 

Just looking to learn something here and wish you luck, hopefully you don't have to change your cam and lifters.

 

Same here on learning. I too have a some what fresh rebuild. It has been over a year with maybe 150miles on the engine. I have been through the break in process with Royal Purple and have already changed out the oil based on Royal Purple's recommendation. The car smokes a little, but not while cruising. Only at idle and initial acceleration. Not sure if it is normal, but it sure annoys me.

 

It could be many things. I don't like the "thin" oil senario you mentioned earlier.

You could have washed out the clyinders with too much fuel = bad ring seal, but you should notice blow by from the breathers.

I'd pull al the plugs for a read, then compression test, then leak test. Takes about an hour to do all that and you will have at least some questions answerd before any additional work.

 

You can't break in our old engines with synthetic oil. You need to run dino oil for at least the first few hundred miles, then go to synthetic. The rings will not seat properly.

 

Thanks for the tip. I have not gone to synthetic yet.

 

not [just] to be a smartarse but
do manufacturers who recommend synthetic break in the rings on dino squeezins first, or what?

 

The engines that were specifically designed for synthetic I guess are made differently. I know that these old flat tappet engines were not. Which is why I specifically stated it the way I did.

 

I contacted Royal Purple because the bottles are unclear on when to change the oil. All the bottle states is that the break in oil is not intended for long use or something to that affect. I informed the tech guy exactly what I have. He stated that the break in oil should be changed out between 50-100 miles. Go with straight SAE30 after that until 1000 miles and then go synthetic. He also said not the change the oil filter after removing the break in oil. The remaining break in oil in the filter will leave behind just enough zinc. Definitely change the oil filter at 1000 miles.

My smoke has definitely improved in recent days. Puffs a little a idle, then a bit more on initial acceleration. After that, no smoke at all. Some of this might also be the dang touchy quadrajet adjustments.

 

I run the break in oil for the first 100 miles. Then change the filter and use a multigrade 10w30 like Valvoline VR1. The reason is some people including myself, sometimes get over zealous with assembly lube and it collects in and clogs the filter. Then I cut the first and the next few filters and check for particles.

 

I do the same as Eric. I have found that Valvoline VR1 is reported to have the highest Zinc content out there. I have done the same with this engine. I plan to pull a valve cover and check for the high oil volume with just turning the engine over but not starting it next week. (have a big project going this week)

Who has sources for .921 lifters?

 

Changing the lifters to a set I had forgotten I had. These are authentic GM parts from back in the 70's. I was so happy I found them. The lifters causing the issue in this engine are Egge vl59

 

What oil pump did you use, stock or HV? Just curious as I used those lifters with a stock pump and have no problems.

 

I didn't build the engine I got it already built. Haven't found the receipt for the oil pump. The guy who built it died so can't ask him. These lifters were bought in 2012. I am wondering if they figured out an issue and fixed it. On another thread on here there is several people who have had the same issue with them.

 

I had a buddy who built his 400 engine & used the Falcon Global lifters and they were the cause of his engine smoking problem. The hole in the top of the lifter was about 3 times the size of a OEM lifter and it allowed the oil to flood the top of the engine causing the smoking problem. He just changed the lifters and now the engine is fine,no smoking, The engine also lost oil pressure when it pumped all the oil to the top,now it holds great oil pressure.

 

The lifter issue makes sense as I've read others possibly having higher flow issues with certain lifters recently. Don't recall which ones though.

 

in communication with Egge today they said there was a bad batch that was made. They are offering a replacement set. Which is great!

 

The new set of lifters from Egge came today. I worked better part of the day to get them installed. It runs awesome and no more smoke!

Thank you Egge.

 

Who'd a thunk it? Outside of hearing of one other case, its not very common.

 

Did you replace the camshaft with the lifters or just install a new set of egge lifters? I am having the same issue after a cam swap!! Great Thread!!

 

Per tech support at Egge just the lifters. The engine had less than 100 miles and they recommended just do another cam break in and it would be fine. It took about 20 mins for it to clean up but it did and it runs awesome now.

I double checked with Greg at supercars unlimited for his input on this as well and he agreed that would be a good solution.

Larry

 

I want to say that Egge was great and took care of me on this and that I highly recommend them for your engine needs.

 

I would love to see an autopsy on these oil burner lifters, photos, maybe compare to a factory proper one side by side.

What happened, how can one tell by looking, rot like that.

 

I did not save the bad ones. I never wanted to confuse them with good ones.

your idea is a good one though