I put a new clutch in a new style Mini yesterday.
Would you believe you have to remove the front bumper to do the job???.
Drive shafts out, fine, I expect that.
Remove battery, tray, ecu & air filter, Ok room is tight under the hood.
Remove inner fender liner & lower the subframe. Hey, that could be better designed.
Remove the front bumper to separate the subframe and allow the engine to move forward (after disconnecting the exhaust & removing two engine mounts). Oh for goodness sake, who had that bright idea??!!


In the early '80s changing a clutch on a fwd Vauxhall took 25 minutes for a quick mechanic, 45 minutes was the official shop manual time.


Is this supposed to be progress?.


Roger.

 

And who told you it was supposed to be progess? Not me! Henry

 

And you have to remove the front bumper on the current DTS Cadillac to change a parking light bulb. Progress for building the car, not repairing it.

 

It is all about how quick they can assemble these cars and no consideration given to maintaining them. All the more reason you will see very few of these cars preserved. Sad.

 

Unfortunately, this is the problem when the Gov't mandates cars that are smaller and lighter for CAFE requirements but the public isn't getting smaller (or lighter, but that's a different topic).

If you think this is bad, try changing the starter in a Chrysler Pacifica. You need to pull the front bumper cover and grille, radiator, and front motor mount, and then you can BARELY wiggle the starter out. Took me a whole weekend.

 

I've been told you have to remove the body to do head gaskets on a late model Furd Excursion

 

That's not as much of a joke as you think. On most newer cars with engine/suspension cradles, it's usually easier and faster to drop the whole engine cradle when doing work like that, especially with a transverse V engine. Of course, that's also a lot easier if you have a two-post lift to get the car up off the engine cradle. I saw one website where someone needed to do this on a Northstar-powered Seville. He pulled the front bumper cover, hooked his engine hoist to the bumper bar, and lifted the car off the engine cradle.

Actually, if you read the CSM for the 61 F-85, it also directs you to drop the engine and trans out the bottom of the car with the crossmember.

 

I'm not really sure if it is sad, as most every car built in the last 5-10 years looks almost identical. (boring)....... that's what I love about the cars built in the 50's - 60's - 70's. There were distinct differences between the Big 3.

 

Yeah, but the rationale is the same as why every commercial jetliner looks the same - they are all styled in a wind tunnel with drag reduction being the highest priority.

 

If you can't tell the difference among modern cars, you must be more Luddite than car guy. Aside of every Korean car trying to look like a German car, or every Volkswagen trying to look like an Audi, it's really quite easy.

 

Speaking about Volkswagon, ever change the alternator on the Touareg with the V8? You have to take the engine out. The alternator is cooled by the coolant system.

 

I don't suppose this has anything to do with VW owning Audi - and likely using the same stylists.

'Cause GM would NEVER do anything like that...

 

Joe, when Volkswagen started to go after the Camry and Accord, they dumbed down the Jetta and Passat for the American market. The styling became more insipid, but if you squint, you can see Audi. I think there's a bit of deliberation (?) in this rather than coincidence.

Anyway, I own a Mini Cooper. There's a reason why I tell my friends not to deal with a German car out of warranty.

 

Audi's are total garbage cars. They are usually good for their first 3 years of life (5 if your lucky) then electrical problems like crazy. And I always laugh when VW commericals say "German" in some way. All those cars are made in Mexico and the timing belt breaks at 30,000 miles.

Did you ever do a head gasket on a Expedition? You have to remove the entire front clip

 

Where a car is built has nothing to do with where it's from or its inner essence. Volkswagens can be built in Botswana but it doesn't make it less German. Remember when they were built in PA?

 

You don't have to squint to see the similarity. Not only are the stylists corporate, but the platforms are shared.

Like I said, GM would NEVER do that...

 

Changing a clutch on an air cooled VW Beetle?. If you get a one hour lunch break and get a move on you will have time for coffee and sandwiches......


Doing the same job on a new Beetle?. Goodbye weekend.........


Roger.

 

Yea, those air cooled VW are a breeze to work on. I use to joke around with the customers telling them while im pointing to the floor, "look you're leaking antifreeze".

 

maybe its because I work on modern cars day in and out but I have worked on mini's and that bumper and liners come off pretty easy. I have worked on benz's , vw/ audi's and everyone complains on how complicated it is. Its really easy people are just afraid to move on with techniques. I remember when I first started I thought benz and vw's sucked . Once you take the time to properly do the process of elimination for disassembly its easy. You complain about the process but these cars come apart real easy . You don't have to deal with 40 years of rust and grime. I bet if you talked to tech who is fast to him its no different than working on the air cooled vw's.

 

Joe, this Jetta butt hardly aspires to be Audi.



However, squint and this one does.



Sharing the same platform is irrelevant.

 

Looks at the vw mini van and the chrysler town and country now that is re badging .

 

I refer to it as "Shrink Wrap Technology" , that's where you shrink wrap a car around a drive line with little or no consideration to scheduled maintenance requirements.
Mind you has anyone tried to check the oil in a 59 fitted with factory AC?
And if you feel you have some excess sanity you could always try to get the passenger cylinder head off, but the replacement of said cylinder head was 'character' building.

 

Take badges and automaker names off any car built in last few years regardless of make, tint the windows and you can't tell a Buick from a Hyandai.

 

If you can't tell between the two, you must not be a car guy or gal.

 

Try it. You will be amazed at the power of a scripted H or equivelent. Take it away from a 2013 four door sedan or a small SUV and you cannot. I'm a lover of 60s and 70s styles and like the jet airline reference, they all just look the same....booooring

 

I can identify every brand sold in America, and I don't mix 'em up. It ain't hard.

 

I'm glad my era of autolove started in the late sixties and early seventies where design meant more than aerodynamics. I am happy to admit that if unbadged, I will make a mistake between one or more of these newer designs. I work with a younger group of teenagers and twentysomethings and yes, the technology is there and today's vehicles will go 150-200k miles with ease, but each one of their cars looks exactly the same and alias, after a chip or a exhaust mod, what else can they do to their cars in their own garage ? Your Cooper..?....hope you have small hands too....

 

The size of my hands has what to do with my Cooper?

Here's an article from Muscle Car Review from over 20 years ago. You'd be surprised that people in 1966 had the same problems that you have today. The similarity is the arrogance they had towards new cars.

As for me, I don't discriminate. In fact, I love the fact that I can drive a V6 Accord and be faster than most 4-4-2s down the 1320. Meanwhile, the typical 4200-lb family sedan from 1969 struggled to go 0-60 faster than 10 seconds - yup, that decade of muscle was hardly muscular when it comes down to it.

 

The Mini I worked on was an old high mileage example, rusted screws, plastic screws that didn't want to shift and everything dirty from oil leaks and grime made the job much harder.
Of course this happened with older cars too, but mostly you could get to everything, and didn't have to do much disassembly in the first pace.
Changing the clutch on the original Minis wasn't helped by lack of room to work in, and you needed a special puller to remove the flywheel. But you only needed to remove the right hand engine mount, and on late models the ventilation intake duct to get to everything.


Roger.

 

Considering that for a couple decades starting in the early 70s they built the cars to be a little more service-friendly, it's disgusting what you go thru to do minor service work now. All in the name of production efficiency and flat rate be damned when you have to fix it. I saw a little of it with that late unlamented 97 Bravada and a bud's 96 Aurora was a complete service nightmare.

I consider myself a car guy, but without badging I can't tell what most stuff is now, much less what year.

Then again I'm sure indifference plays a part in that. Most modern cars simply don't interest me much so I don't bother to pick up on nuances. They're appliances, even high-performance versions.

 

At my workplace (Toyota), the cars are designed for quality (safety, efficiency, emissions, performance, longevity) first, then for ease and speed and safety of assembly second. It bothers me that, while things are repairable and replaceable, there's no consideration given to giving room to work, or remove something without it being under 10 other things.

Certain things are considered routine maintenance; those can be done. Anything that is supposed to last the life of the car might require half the car to be taken apart to get to it. The idea is the car will make it X years, Y miles, then be recycled via planned obsolescence.

I know I'm the only one who has looked at the recycle bin of build sheets at the end of the lines and wondered what people will do with these cars in 30 years to restore them.

 

While disappointing, keep in mind that the automaker makes exactly zero dollars on maintenance work. The automaker's sole requirement is to maximize profits while complying with all applicable laws. New cars need to meet safety, mileage, and emissions standards. The necessary equipment is laid out, the passenger compartment volume maximized, and the rest of the car is shrink-wrapped around those volumes. In today's CAFE environment, the automaker doesn't have the luxury of allowing extra volume for ease of servicing (Glenn, I'll point out that those strides in serviceability in the early 1970s were BEFORE OPEC). If it takes longer to repair the car after the sale, the automaker frankly doesn't care, as this does nothing to the bottom line.

Also, the number of special factory service tools has skyrocketed lately, again due to these constraints.

As an aerospace engineer, I deal with decisions like this every day. Every pound we add to the launch vehicle or satellite to make it easier to work on detracts from usable payload. We spend a lot of time and money designing ground support equipment (ie, special factory tools) to accommodate these designs.

 

Oh, I agree, Joe, I just don't LIKE it.

 

But it can and does affect the bottom line eventually, when people refuse to buy XXX car because of the difficulty and cost involved in maintaining it. They've managed to deflect this for the most part by building cars to require little regular maintenance (100K sparkplugs and coil packs with no distributor) until they reach a particular milestone when the entire car pretty much implodes beyond even the most optimistic hopes of keeping it on the road anymore.


Dad worked for the Planning dept at Pratt and Whitney. Their entire job revolved around this point. He actually won an award for a tool he designed.

 

I agree that repeat business is important, but the reality is that cars today require very little maintenance. Even my 99 Chevy crewcab dually with over a quarter million miles on it still has the original exhaust system. The Porsche Cayman doesn't even provide engine access from the top, but this doesn't stop people from buying them.

 

All good except what's the fun of driving a V6 accord when you can cruise the 320 in a 442 or my delta 88 royale. Cars are superior in longevity nowadays for sure. But it's almost like getting a new cell phone; they all look the same, all seat the same, etc. Also talking apples to apples here, a non cookie cutter make like an FJ, or even your Mini, have a separation when comparing a camry to an accord to a sonata to a rogue to a equinox to a marano, etc. JMO.

 

No argument. That's why I'm building the 64 Vista to replace the 02 Volvo V40 wagon.

 

Yep, and that's where the wheels fall off when something does go wrong ... GM's infamous 3.4L intake manifold gasket for example. It's comical because 50 years ago, a manifold gasket failing after 60 thousand miles probably wouldn't have even warranted mention as a 20 minute job done under regular maintenance and tune up. Tune up? The term isn't even in most driver's vocabulary anymore. People now demand zero maintenance as the norm.

All part of the disposable consumer oriented world we've been taught is necessary to keep the economy going. I repair $700+ smart phones that people treat with as much care and respect as anything else they buy at the dollar store ... which is to say none at all. Walk through any parking lot and count how many cars over 3 years old you find that don't have a single ding, dent or scrape. If you need to take off your shoes, you must be at a car show.


btw, if you think changing a clutch is tough on today's cars, you should see what it takes to pry one of these stupid phones open. *shakes head* Now these are really designed to never be fixed.

 

Actually, here in Northern VA, it's just the opposite. Loudoun and Fairfax Counties are usually numbers one and two in national per-capita income. You won't see a car with rust or dents, and in fact, you typically won't see many cars over five years old. Heck, Friday afternoon I went to the parking garage to get in my 62 (I drove it to work so I could hit a cruise night on the way home) and there was a brand new Lambo Huracan in the garage. Of course, it isn't enough to own a quarter million dollar car, this one was custom painted in a gold chrome paint.

Actually, here in Tysons Corner there are Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, BMW, Aston Martin, and McLaren dealerships within a couple miles of my office. By the way, you know the matte paint thing has jumped the shark when there are brand new Astons painted matte orange parked in front of the dealership.

 

Window regulators are one of my fav's these days.

Nothing like saving a few pounds per car to help satisfy CAFE at the expense of one's safety & well being.

What about the simple act of replacing a burnt out light bulb ?.

Cheap & simple right ?.

No of course' not.

A tail lamp with 3 bulbs & cavities but only one connector = internal circuit board.

Add some bad QC where water seeps in there & corrodes said circuit board ... now you have what appears to be a perfectly good tail lamp & 3 good bulbs - yet intermittent issues.

Cheapest fix for this issue :

$40 aftermarket chinesium tail lamp assembly.

Sure they sell the circuit boards cheaper ... but good luck trying to separate it from the tail lamp assembly without heating it enough to melt it &/or shattering it into a 1000 pieces trying to pry it apart.

Another oh-so-massive weight savings I suppose from less wiring + less work for an assembly line robot.

Yet another thing that has potential safety issues.

But I shouldn't be so negative ...

At least it's not one of those new trendy LED jobbers that's so ginormous it can be seen from outer space & is eligible for its own zip code.

Can't imagine what a chinesium replacement for one of those has to cost.

Gotta love yanking an entire front bumper/header + discharging an a/c system & removing the condenser ... just to replace a radiator too.

Then there's the .00007 cent plastic pegs in things deep in the workings of automatic climate control systems that snap/break & necessitate the removal of the entire instrument panel to fix.

But hey ...

Who's complaining.