oldsguybry

I figured I would ask here because my Buick has been warping rotors left and right . I HAVE been buying the cheap rotors but never had this problem before . The car doesn't pull to one side or the other when braking , but I think one of them might be dragging on the rotor after I take my foot off of the brake .

I read on a website that there are ways to tell when the caliper is bad and that you can maybe lube the piston up also .... one of their tips is to jack the car up , take the caliper/brake pads off and push the brake pedal down while the car is on I believe , and then go and inspect the calipers . I'm not sure this is such a great idea . I wouldn't try that with a wheel cylinder .

Let me know if any of you guys have any tips on determining whether a caliper is bad or not . I got to get pads and rotors AGAIN for this car , and I will replace the caliper if I can figure out which one is bad . I'm pretty sure this is the issue anyhow . I replaced the pads and rotors 2 yrs ago , and within 6 months they were already warped . The next summer I just replaced the rotors because the pads were almost like new yet , and they warped within 6 months again . Now this year I have to do it again ... any input would be appreciated .

oldcutlass

If your car is not pulling while driving and with the car jacked up the wheels spin freely then you don't have caliper issues. Some of the less expensive rotors are crap and will warp easily. If you drive through a deep puddle of water when the brakes are hot they will also warp.

mrolds69

You do lube the pins and slides, right? You've checked them for smoothness of operation? Have you ever replaced the pins and bushings? 2 years is crazy short time to wear. Always buy good pads like Wagner Thermo-Quiets. It sounds like they are dragging and building heat.

Octania

How do I know if caliper is bad ?
=======================

They start smoking, wearing leather jackets, and hanging out at the pool hall 'til all hours of the night.

2blu442

I had one once that heated up the rotor to the point I could smell the pads burning. If you jack the car up and try to spin the tire I'm thinking you'll feel the drag vs. the other side that's working fine.



John

nsnarsk65cutlass

X2 the cheap or maybe not inexpensive off shore rotors will do that.Nick

Fun71

Agreed on the cheap rotors warping easily when they're hot and water splashes on them.

As for checking a caliper, my only experience with a bad one was when changing pads once I couldn't push the piston back in on one side, but the other moved fairly easily.

A sticking piston would prevent the pads from being clamped onto the rotor on that side and the other side would do all the braking and wear the pads on that side down (which is what happened on my car). I don't see how that wouldn't explain the rotors warping.

oldsguybry

1st , sorry I didn't get back here till now , been busy . 2 years ? The rotors wont last 6 months , I had to replace them two years in a row , and this will be the third set + I never lubed anything except the zurk fittings on the front end since i've bought the car around 2.5 years ago . I am also leaning toward the dragging thing at this point .

oldsguybry

not a 100% sure that it is a rotor , but what else could it be ? That's why I wanted to rule them out by inspecting them as I replace the pads / rotors AGAIN .

Allan R

Bryan, the piston doesn't get lubed, just the other components already described by others. The power piston should move with relative firm pressure by pressing with your hand. Is your caliper a single piston or dual piston? You might have one piston not releasing properly, causing a slight overheat on the rotor.

I would NOT take that advise from the website unless you want to see your piston pop right out of its sleeve and bleed brake fluid all over the place. What they're suggesting is basically the same procedure you use to remove the piston with compressed air.

Here's the part that I want to know. Are BOTH rotors warped, or just one? If it's just one, likely you have an issue with that side caliper and it might need to be rebuilt or replaced. BTW, rebuilding a caliper is really easy and cheap. Just remember to lube the caliber slide bolts and replace the o rings in the caliper. The power piston will also get a new seal that's not hard to install.


Chris? Now DAT IS FUNNY!!

oldsguybry

X2 .... my only experience with a bad caliper was the same , the piston wouldn't push back in , but not in this case . The piston pushes back in , at least it did last year when I replaced the rotors . I will have to do what has been advised above as I replace the pads / rotors and see if I can notice any differences in the two sides . I can add pictures when that day comes .

oldsguybry

I finally caught that one now

I'm not sure which rotor is warped , I was hoping I can tell once I get these parts off . The caliper has a single big piston that pushes on the brake pad . I may try and rebuild , but more then likely I will just get a rebuilt one , time permitting .... I am also going to buy the better rotors this time .

Allan R

Easy peasy. If you have a warped rotor and don't know which one? Mark them for L and R with a felt pen (on the hub) and take them to advance. They can turn them if there's plenty of meat and tell you which one was warped. Kill 2 birds with one stone? If both are warped, likely you just have cheesy cheap rotors.

Now that's said? OEM isn't always the best way to go either. My wife's car went through rotors every 8K when it was new. The rotors were just too damn thin. Dealer replaced rotors and pads every year for 3 years. After that I bought Raybestos HD rotors and have not had that problem with short brake lifespans again. FWIW the calipers on her car are 18 years old and still work flawlessly. Spend the money on good quality rotors. The heavier duty ones dissipate heat better.

oldsguybry

It just seems funny that I always bought the cheap rotors and never had a problem like this before . This is a big car though , maybe the cheap rotors can't handle the added heat from stopping a bigger car ? I'm not rough on my brakes or anything so I guess I won't know until I can look at it closer .

oldsguybry

I thought you couldn't get these " cheap rotors ' turned . I was under the impression that these are " throw away " rotors .... once they warp , you just get new ones . They are just a flat disk that slides onto the studs , and they are not very thick like the old school ones were .

Allan R

Bryan, every manufacturer has their own standards for production. You know that. For most (the disposable ones) it's called minimum standard. No, not all rotors are throw away or disposable. You should put a set of vernier calipers on them and check the tolerances before you just chuck them.

What most of the cheaper brands rely on is your thinking. Throw away. They make a lot of money that way. Although in truth I'd rather be putting new ones on if the old ones are 'suspect'. It's still worth your while to see if the calipers are within tolerance. Machining is less costly than buying replacements in most cases. What brand did you buy anyway? If they're ATE, chuck em and buy new ones. The rotors with the helical patterns cut into them seem to warp faster than non grooved ones. The brake pad material seems to cut off and fill in those channels really quickly rendering the concept useless.

droldsmorland

Dont rule out a collapsing brake line especially if they are over 10 years old...the soft lines that is. If they collapse they can act as a one way valve not allowing the fluid to flow back towards the master or it releases slower than it should.

Fun71

This is what I found out with my wife's '93 Cougar XR7. The service manager at my local shop had a T-Bird Super Coupe that he autocrossed and he went through rotors on a regular basis. In addition to being much thinner than the premium rotors, they are surface hardened so if they are turned the surface hardening is cut away. He recommended I buy the premium rotors so they wouldn't warp and could be turned when needed. I did that was was amazed at the difference in thickness between the OEM rotor/cheap aftermarket (OEM replacement) and the premium aftermarket rotor.

MDchanic

I found out the hard way that cheap rotors will warp like that, darned near every time.

The expensive rotors, on the other hand, really don't seem to.

It's easily worth the extra money to buy the good ones.

As far as calipers, as stated above, if the piston's not seized and the caliper's not tight or leaking, it's good.

- Eric

mrolds69

I agree and know there are cheap rotors around. But...you really need to learn how to lube the pins and replace the orings. The pistons may be fine, and probably are. But the caliper has to be able to slide in + out smoothly. There is a clip on the inner pad that snaps into the piston. The outer pad should be staked or crimped. If the pads rattle around they can wear and make heat. This really cheap and simple stuff to check + do.

mrolds69

If you do go greasing, make sure you use a recommended grease...like Sil-Glyde from NAPA.

oldcutlass

You can probably cut the ones you have but they will warp again possibly sooner next time. Like the others suggested get a good quality named brand like Raybestos. Also the material that the pads are made of could contribute to your issue.

69442C

Bryan,

I don't think this is an issue you will be able to correct fully. The better grade of rotors will help a lot but the rotors will still warp. I've driven a lot of Buick LeSabre's, Delta 88's and Buick Lucernes since the mid 90's and every single one of them all develops the issue with warped rotors. I've had cars with 8000 miles and the rotors were already starting to warp. I tend to think GM went a little small on the rotors for these bigger cars and this is the result. If he car was never driven above 55, no problem. But I do a lot of highway driving where I'm at speeds up to 70 and the rotors don't seem to like it. I gave up having rotors turned as it just didn't last all that long so when pads were installed, I always got new rotors. One way to help it is to use a torque wrench on the front lug nuts and torque them evenly and to factory specs. If the front wheels get installed with an impact gun, the lug nuts can be torqued unevenly and can cause rotor vibration issues.

Brian

oldsguybry

I'll have to check the lines . Thanks

76olds

This may be a crazy ? But did you inspect and repack your bearings and replace the seals? You should have vented rotors in which dissipates heat well. Its sometimes difficult to hear a bearing hum with the exhaust systems we have on our cars. Cross drilled rotors may be a decent investment if warping is the main issue. If it was a line collapse you would have fading as well, pulling to one side.

oldsguybry

Well that figures .

Thanks for all your replies on this . I will buy good rotors this time , and some better pads too . I will still inspect the calipers while I'm replacing the other stuff to be sure .

oldsguybry

Ok , I always wanted to be a greaser

Octania

As for is the caliper bad...
They are dirt cheap right?
Just get new ones.
Inquire about "loaded calipers" too [with pads]

Often loaded calipers cost less than the calipers plus the pads.

oldsguybry

Wow , I had to stop at two auto parts stores and I ended up ordering new rotors for my Buick . Instead of the cheap $31 rotors , I had them order the only other option available which were Wagner rotors for $44 each . I will pick them up on Wednesday along with some new brake pads and put them on . I will of course inspect the calipers while I'm at it too .

Allan R

$$$ doesn't make the rotor better. Check the Wagners and verify they are 'Premium'. If they're not, keep on sourcing them out. Have you checked out Rock Auto?

RROLDSX

Had an Aerostar that had the same problem. Now I'm not saying cheap rotors aren't the cause but in my case the rear drum brakes required adjustment constantly (2X annually) to keep them operating optimally. Otherwise the front discs did all the braking. Living in mountainous terrain, I could warp them puppies in a day. After learning that trick never had a problem again. Don't seem to have that problem with 4 wheel discs though.

Allan R

My 07 Sonata Limited has 4 wheel disc and brakes flawlessly. Not even close to changing the rotors or pads and its got 111K (km) on it. Now the wife's Saturn? Different story. It EATS brake rotors. I just replaced them with NAPA premium 14K (km) ago and they're pulsating. I'm going to try just servicing them with 400 wet and brake fluid to even things out. Maybe see if that works. Honest to Gawd, that Saturn has 155K (km) on it and has been through no less than 7 sets of rotors/pads. Probably another one of their better ideas that caused GM to ditch them.

It doesn't seem to matter if I buy premium or cheapo with that car, the results are new rotors every 2 years or so. Wanna buy a Saturn?

RROLDSX

Some Saturns (SUV's) I believe are Honda platforms. Also, had 130K of heavy,heavy use on my Duramax, finally changed the pads (50% left) just so I wouldn't keep checking them so much. Also, had a defective proportioning valve on a another Ford that left the back brakes inoperable. When you dealing with steep grades for long distance and a wet climate everything has to be working properly or you'll warp the front rotors quickly. This causes that lovely pulsating we all love.

Allan R

My wifes Saturn isn't based that way, but if it was a Honda I doubt I'd be having these issues.

I don't remember a lot of steep hills in North Delta?? I must have driven close by to your place on the way to the Twassessn Ferry Causeway. Took the wrong exit coming off the boat and instead of heading back to Surrey on 99, I ended up staying on 17 all the way down past Patullo Bridge and then onto the King George Parking lot. Never again.... But if you travel the Coq and Merritt connector a lot I know exactly what you mean. How does wet climate affect warping? I thought it would be somewhat beneficial to help keep temps down. Good mileage on the brakes on your Duramax BTW. Doesn't it have that Allison retarder transmission?

oldcutlass

Allan the sand paper won't do anything to stop the pulsing, the rotors need to be trued. Just ask them to cut enough to get them smooth.

Allan R

Very likely Eric. It just bugs me that this is such a common repetitive thing with this car. I really don't think the rotors have enough wear to worry about tolerances at this time. New ones might be faster. Last ones were supposed to be premium. Maybe I'll have to try Raybestos rotors next time. Turning rotors up here is close to 20/rotor and new ones are only 28......see where this is going?

oldcutlass

I understand, some of the autoparts stores warrant their stuff for life.

Allan R

I just checked my records (I have incredibly good mtce filing and keep all invoices along with a maintenance log for things like tire/oil changes etc). The rotors were bought from NAPA on April 3, 2012 and installed the same day. The warranty is for 18 months or 24K km, whichever comes first. Mileage at install 141498. Mileage now: 155602. Original purchase price per rotor, tax in - 26.72

It could be a lot worse. I can upgrade to the Ultra Premium rotors, but I don't think it'll help. Their warranty is 24 months/36,000 km. This car just doesn't get that kind of use, which is another reason I don't understand the premature failure.

oldcutlass

It does seem that certain cars go through rotors for some reason. I know that from selling them for as long as I did. I think some of it has to do with the brake material used on the pads and shoes. I know some pads seem to last forever now a days. I remember as a kid when they were still using asbestos, seems people would go through 2 sets of front pads to every set of rear shoes.

MDchanic

For whatever it's worth, I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee that spent some time eating rotors.
I haven't counted lately (though I do have all the receipts for rotors in one group), but I believe I've replaced the front ones at least five times.

I finally broke down and bought the top of the line NAPAs for something like $80 each, and since then (at least two years), I haven't had a problem.

I wouldn't have believed it either.

- Eric