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71 442 Fuel Tank And Fuel Line Replacement Quiestions
Hello all,
I'm going to replace my fuel tank on my 71 442 because the PO put in one that's not correct for my car. The filler neck is in such a wired angle that it's EXTREMELY hard to put gas in.
My questions are, is there anything I should be looking for in a new tank? I've seen them at the parts place for $199, ILT for $179, and on eBay from Bobs Chevelle parts for $146. All of them are the correct 3 vent system style. Is there a difference in quality?
The questions on the fuel lines are, I have the fuel vapor system behind the rear seat. Do I have to hook this back up (it's currently not hooked up) or can I bypass all of this and cap the ports on the fuel tank?
I also have the 3 fuel line system. I think the car had the charcoal canister at some point. Can I just use the two fuel lines, supply and return, as my fuel lines and get a two port sending unit? I currently have a two port fuel pump with the supply and return hooked up.
I believe those that have used the ILT tank have been happy. I would use the vent behind the back seat, cap the port for the charcoal canister, and use the return line off the pump.
I believe those that have used the ILT tank have been happy. I would use the vent behind the back seat, cap the port for the charcoal canister, and use the return line off the pump.
So you would recommend hooking up the vent behind the seat? It's not an obsolete system? Then I should get a one port sending unit then right?
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Originally Posted by dfire25
My questions are, is there anything I should be looking for in a new tank? I've seen them at the parts place for $199, ILT for $179, and on eBay from Bobs Chevelle parts for $146. All of them are the correct 3 vent system style. Is there a difference in quality?
The questions on the fuel lines are, I have the fuel vapor system behind the rear seat. Do I have to hook this back up (it's currently not hooked up) or can I bypass all of this and cap the ports on the fuel tank?
I also have the 3 fuel line system. I think the car had the charcoal canister at some point. Can I just use the two fuel lines, supply and return, as my fuel lines and get a two port sending unit? I currently have a two port fuel pump with the supply and return hooked up.
Dave,
Shop around because, yes, there's a difference. Chances are you're looking at one of the differences in your car already. The tank you need is the GM34R. Same tank for 71/72 Cutlass models. It has the 3 vents you're looking for. Rock Auto also sells these tanks for around 177.00?? You might also be able to get them drop shipped from NAPA to save a few bucks. Mine ended up costing 219.00 shipped from NAPA.
Originally Posted by dfire25
So you would recommend hooking up the vent behind the seat? It's not an obsolete system? Then I should get a one port sending unit then right?
I'd hook it up, it's an old but effective system to relieve vacuum in the tank. ALL 71/72 Cutlass models got these systems installed. NO, you should still get the 2 pipe sender for the tank. Likely your car has the 455 engine? If you look at the fuel pump you'll see it has a fuel inlet and fuel return line. THAT's how you determine the sender you need. Fuel supply line is 3/8" and the return is 5/16".
As far as hooking up or plugging the line to the charcoal container? That is an obsolete emissions control system. If you plug that, you'll also have to plug the vent on the carb it would attach to. If you don't have one in the car, sure - plug it in the engine compartment or at the vent cannister, that won't hurt anything. I replaced all the rubber hoses on my car last year and did all the venting system because I still have it as a stock car. NOTE: when replacing rubber hoses, don't forget those rubber lines that run through the frame to the engine compartment. Easier to undo the fuel line clips on the side of the frame so you have 'wiggle room' to play with. The fuel hoses there are one of the most overlooked ones on the car. Have a catch pail handy, you will lose about a cup of gas.
From the sounds of what you posted, I'm also guessing your TCS is not hooked up either.
Originally Posted by dc2x4drvr
I replaced my tank with a Spectra brand, made in Canada, perfect fit..
Ditto! I'm very pleased with mine too! Very nice quality and it comes with a protective film on the steel.
Originally Posted by oldcutlass
The tank needs to be vented so you don't draw a huge vacuum as the gas gets drained through the fuel system.
Exactly. This can also affect the cars performance. Also make sure the fuel cap is a vented one.
I've decided to hook the vapor canister behind the rear seat back up. I have a pm out to oldspackrat to replace the missing hard lines between the tank and the canister. ILT sells this setup but they want $48 bucks for it
On the sending unit, the assembly manual shows a one pipe sending unit. Here is where it's going to get a little confusing. My car was originally set up with a 3 line fuel system. Supply, return, and emissions. With this system yes, you use a 2 pipe sending unit. I do not have the charcoal canister that the emissions line hooks up to so I wasn't going to use that line at all. I the future when I replace the front to back fuel lines, I was just going to get a 2 line set.
So... If I don't use the "emissions" line, and just use the supply and return lines, the supply line obviously gets attached to the main fuel line and the "one" pipe sending unit, and the return line gets attached to the vapor canister behind the rear seat. Thereby I would only need a one pipe sending unit. Am I correct on this or way off base?
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Originally Posted by dfire25
I've decided to hook the vapor canister behind the rear seat back up.
On the sending unit, the assembly manual shows a one pipe sending unit. Here is where it's going to get a little confusing. My car was originally set up with a 3 line fuel system. Supply, return, and emissions. With this system yes, you use a 2 pipe sending unit. I do not have the charcoal canister that the emissions line hooks up to so I wasn't going to use that line at all. I the future when I replace the front to back fuel lines, I was just going to get a 2 line set.
So... If I don't use the "emissions" line, and just use the supply and return lines, the supply line obviously gets attached to the main fuel line and the "one" pipe sending unit, and the return line gets attached to the vapor canister behind the rear seat. Thereby I would only need a one pipe sending unit. Am I correct on this or way off base?
You're off base. Look again at the assembly manual. You're not going far enough - go to page 118. The first pages you're looking at clearly show the routing for a 'non return' fuel system. Yours is a fuel return system and requires the 2 pipe sender. Again, look at the fuel pump on the front of the block - it will have 2 connections; 1 for fuel supply and one for fuel return. This is also shown on page 116 of the Assembly Manual, and shows how the setup is to be connected. Do not connect the return line to the vent cannister - it was never hooked up there in the first place. If you change to a different fuel pump and change to a 1 pipe sender, you can cap both ends of the return line and the emissions lines, but do connect the venting system.
If you don't use the emissions line you can plug it at the cannister end OR the engine compartment. Scott is a good supplier of parts, why not ask him to kick in the cannister for minimal cost and hook it up. It should come with a cannister bracket to hold it, and your car will look more original.
You're off base. Look again at the assembly manual. You're not going far enough - go to page 118. The first pages you're looking at clearly show the routing for a 'non return' fuel system. Yours is a fuel return system and requires the 2 pipe sender. Again, look at the fuel pump on the front of the block - it will have 2 connections; 1 for fuel supply and one for fuel return. This is also shown on page 116 of the Assembly Manual, and shows how the setup is to be connected. Do not connect the return line to the vent cannister - it was never hooked up there in the first place. If you change to a different fuel pump and change to a 1 pipe sender, you can cap both ends of the return line and the emissions lines, but do connect the venting system.
If you don't use the emissions line you can plug it at the cannister end OR the engine compartment. Scott is a good supplier of parts, why not ask him to kick in the cannister for minimal cost and hook it up. It should come with a cannister bracket to hold it, and your car will look more original.
Allan your looking at an assembly manual for a 71 right? I just want to make sure we are on the same page.
In section 8 page 104 it shows the vent and supply piping at the tank. This is what I was going off of.
So if I eliminate the emissions line and get a two pipe sending unit, I can eliminate the canister behind the rear seat? Or can I still hook it up somehow?
I'm not using a stock carb (Holley) so I would have no idea where to connect the line from the charcoal canister. Plus my emissions line at the front of the car is broken off anyway.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Yes, I'm looking at the 71 Assembly Manual (which is almost 100% identical to the 72).
Section 8, page 104 is the non vented system that was used with the 350 engine cars. As mentioned early, keep turning the pages till you get to pages 116 and 118.
So if I eliminate the emissions line and get a two pipe sending unit, I can eliminate the canister behind the rear seat? Or can I still hook it up somehow?
1. No. 2 You can eliminate the emissions line simply by installing a rubber cap on the vent canister where the emissions line would be connected at the far left side. Hook up the rest of the connections to the cannister as indicated in the Assembly manual. The vent cannister helps keep fuel flowing as it should as the fuel pump moves it to the carb. Easy.
The venting cannister behind the seat is used to help prevent excessive vacuum IN THE TANK that could cause fuel starvation to the carb much the same as the return line helps prevent vapor lock with a hotter running engine. You said you're using a Holley carb, so if you wanted to replace the sender and fuel pump with a single pipe unit - go ahead. Then you'll only have one fuel line to worry about. You do need the venting on the cannister though, which is basically the 3 tube connections from the tank to cannister.
I'm not sure how to say this now because I've already said it 2x before.
1. Check your fuel pump. Does it have a return line? If YES, get a 2 pipe sender. If NO, get a one pipe sender.
2. The fuel supply and fuel return lines get hooked up the the SENDER, NOT the CANNISTER.
3. Since there is no emissions line, whatever carb you're using won't be affected and you don't need to worry about a charcoal filter or lines.
The layout for the venting system of the cannister is quite self explanatory on page 104. The ONLY difference between non return and return systems is the extra line coming back from the fuel pump to the fuel tank sender.
Thank you for your patients Allan. Here is what I have, see pic. I do have a two port fuel pump and a two tube sending unit, as shown in the pic.
Remember what I said earlier though that my tank is NOT correct for my car, so the vent system behind the seat isn't being used right now.
So I'll hook up the supply and return lines from the fuel pump directly to the sending unit.
When I do get the correct tank for the car, should I still hook up the three ports from the tank to the canister behind the seat for a vent to avoid excessive vacuum? I believe you answered this but I'm just making sure.
X2 on the Spectra tanks. I just got mine from rock auto. I got the tank, straps and shipping all for $181. The Spectra tanks are what inline tube sells.
X2 on the Spectra tanks. I just got mine from rock auto. I got the tank, straps and shipping all for $181. The Spectra tanks are what inline tube sells.
That's a great deal! I'm going to look later for one. Did you price out sending units by any chance?
Don't forget to get a Rockauto discount code from this site....save another 5%.
I just ordered a tank and sending unit for my '70, $160. I hope I got the right 1. I was trying to follow your situation. We'll see.
Good luck!
I did use the 5% code. The tank was $147, straps $26, sending unit $38, and cap $5. So like I said it was $240 with shipping. Shipping was $30 which is expensive, but I guess it is a gas tank so it's big and heavy. Plus I ordered the tank on a Sunday night and I got it Tuesday morning, how fast is that!
I got my tank through bobs impala's ebay store, $115 shipped. Very nice quality and I just installed mine yesterday and fit perfect except for me bending the strap.
I got my tank through bobs impala's ebay store, $115 shipped. Very nice quality and I just installed mine yesterday and fit perfect except for me bending the strap.
I seen Bob's on eBay, he had some decent prices on A body parts. I just wasn't sure about the quality so I went with a spectra tank. The one I seen for my car though was $164 I think. Oh and by the way, your suppose to bend the straps.
As I mentioned here before, the car didn't have the correct tank in it. From what I don't know. It had a one of those old neck inserts that had the small hole for unleaded gas. The middle section where the sending unit was, was raised up and it had all kinds of baffles inside the tank itself.
The PO used threaded rod to hold the tank in place and that was bent because of the size of the tank. The real trick with getting it out was that the neck was on such an angle upward so we had to keep raising and lowering and moving it back and forth. But it all came out as well as could be expected.
The PO also cut the ground wire for the sending unit to the body, then used a wire nut to connect it to another wire to the ground nut inside the trunk. All he had to do is clean off the ground to the body and he wouldn't have had to go though all this trouble because that's all I did, and it works fine!
The new tank went in fairly easy, with the exception of getting the straps to fit of course. I ended up using fuel hose for the three vent system for the time being, until I get the hard lines. Is it good to have the hard lines or is the fuel hose ok?
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Good to hear you got everything done.
re: the fuel hoses? They should be ok temporarily. The steel lines also use that clamp (in your second pic, also my second and 5th) that holds all 3 in place and makes everything somewhat more stable. The steel lines also provide OEM routing of the connections away from any rub points. My steel lines were incredibly good so I just restored them - nice and solid OEM. The bottom of the car was completely cleaned and resprayed.
Got some pics of the install? Here's how mine went - note: at the time these pics were taken the tank wasn't in so everything is dry fitted.
I didn't take any pics of the install. I did it at work at the last minute so I had to kinda hurry. Plus my underside and frame isn't as pretty. The frame off with replacing the the floors and truck are a few years off yet. The work never ends!
I'll probably still get the hard lines then, better off in the long run I guess.
I plan on changing my gas tank and lines so this is good info..
? I'm guessing my gas tank is 40+ years old. Is it best just to replace it or restore it?
I plan on changing my gas tank and lines so this is good info..
? I'm guessing my gas tank is 40+ years old. Is it best just to replace it or restore it?
Most people seem to be just replacing them. The Spectra tank is a nice fit and look, plume you can get OE stencils for the factory look if that's what your concerned about. For an original tank, it might be too rusty to restore. But I'm sure there are places out there that do it.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Originally Posted by Alex72cutty
? I'm guessing my gas tank is 40+ years old. Is it best just to replace it or restore it?
In all honesty it depends on the condition of the tank. If it's scaly and rusty? Replace. If it's been undercoated and preserved from road crud, it might be worth just cleaning and reinstalling.
re: stencils. The new SPECTRA Premium tanks are coated with an oily waxy substance to prevent corrosion. To stencil a tank you'd have to remove that. IMO not worth it, and in all honesty I haven't seen a 72 with any stencils on the tank.
Hi guys. Good thread, i know its kind of older but i wanted to ask if anyone is able to direct me to detailed pictures of the fuel and brake line installation on a 72. I have the assembly manual but i was having a dickens of a time today trying to determine where my in line tube lines should go. I feel like an idiot but its just not working for me.
Thanks!
Chris
here are the brake lines running along the drivers side. The 2 lines coming up from the prop valve go to the master cylinder, the two that are cut, are for the front brakes.
Last edited by Krom; November 7th, 2015 at 12:56 PM.
Ok, so if my 350 1972 cutlass originally had two fuel lines on the passenger side, and a charcoal canister in the engine bay, then i need to purchase the main fuel line and the vapor line? Just want to make sure I'm not looking for a fuel return line.
Thanks!
Chris
You seem to know your way around fuel lines. I have a '72 Cutlass 350 and am replacing the tank. The vent system behind the seat has 4 lines going in/out. The one by itself all the way to the left I know is the 5/16" return line. There are then 3 lines grouped together, a 3/8" with a 5/16" on each side. It has been a while since I took the tank out and I can't find my notes as to what goes where. It seems obvious but I would hate to get it wrong. Can you, or anyone, help me? Thanks
March 15th, 2014, 10:47 AM
