I'll TRY to keep this short. I deed your knowledgable opinions though, so there's going to be several details

I'm having my 1968 cutlass convertible restored at Desert Valley Auto Parts in Phoenix AZ. I bought this car site unseen from a another CO member. A working convertible for a great price! The seller isn't my problem though.

I purchased this car and had it shipped straight to AZ from KS. I live in TX btw. This took place in Jan of 2012.

DVAP was supposed to do a restoration for around 14k. This wouldn't be a frame-off resto, but the car would be a nice vehicle when finished. It's what my budget could afford. I gave them half up front and would give them the other half upon completion.

Over the year communication was poor and work was continuously delayed. I kept thinking this is fine, bc the finished product will be well worth it. My contact there told me dec 15 that the vehicle would be done jan or early feb. finally! After a year the car's almost finished!

Well I let Christmas and the new year go by and then I decided to contact them. I emailed my contact there but an automatic reply told me he was no longer with them. No one decided to tell me this?!

No one knew what was going on. The guy that took over the resto business is also the parts manager for the entire yard. Hes busy! he said he thought my car was in for a respray only. I finally got ahold of the owner a week into February, and he complained how he'll never restore a no AZ car ever again and that he was upside down in my car. I also found out they took out the windshield and it busted. He payed for the busted window but is charging me 1200 for the install. I was NEVER told about this until our conversation.

I was finally able to make it out to AZ the other day and see my car. The freshly painted car was sitting in the AZ sun covered in dust and sand. Also, the driver and pass windows don't seal well to the top. It rained later that night. It hadn't been worked on for weeks. Badges are crooked. There's an orange bleach like stain on the new carpet. The gauges aren't hooked up...so on and so forth. Wtf?!

Of course the owner wasn't there and talking to the parts guy got me nowhere b/c he kept deferring to the owner.

So here's my questions to you. What do I do?

A) I asked if the owner would buy it, but he hasn't gotten back to me of course and for me to consider selling it I need to break even. That's around 23k and on the open market I don't think that'll happen.

I'd hate to give this guy this car though bc I'm the 3rd owner and the guy before me bought it from the original owner and only had it a year. I have some original docs. To sell this car to him would be an insult to the car!

B) Keep waiting for them to finish?

C) Pull the plug and bring it home? I will probably lose more money doing this bc ill have to pay more elsewhere to finish what they started.

Thank you for reading my novel. I look forward to your responses. I'm at my wits end with these guys and I could really use some advice!

Rhett

 

Not Good at all...

 

Do you have a contract and what does it say? if you don't have anything in writing I would get the car out of there and take a loss, you already know what kind of work they do by how they took care of your car. Any dealings I have had with DVAP has been either bad or I was egnoried and left hanging....Tedd

 

Do you have a written contract with them?

 

1. What does your WRITTEN CONTRACT with them say?

2. It sounds to me like you've already lost this one. No matter what, unless you have a hell of a contract and a hell of a lawyer, you're not going to get back the money that you put out, and in all likelihood, you stand to lose a whole lot more.
We could (and I expect everyone here will ) split hairs, but I would say that the very best you could do would be to get the best money you possibly can for it, and walk away. There are other cars.

- Eric

 

If you want to keep the car then get it out of there ASAP! Cut your losses and chalk it up to experience. Its only going to get worse from here, and they'll want to find ways to charge you more and pay for their troubles.


John

 

Here's what I have in writing with them. Also if you look at the pic in my signature you'll see the crooked 442



RESTORATION OF CUTLASS CONVERTIBLE PROVIDED BY CUSTOMER
PAINT THE EXTERIOR SILVER WITH BLACK 442 STRIPES GOING DOWN THE FENDER FROM TOP TO BOTTOM PROVIDE AND INSTALL NEW CARPET AND VINYL ON SEATS. ADDRESS DOOR PANELS CLIPS AND TEARS RE-CHROME BUMPERS AND HAND POLISH STAINLESS PROVIDE AND INSTALL NEW BRAKES
FIX THE EXHAUST TIPS. THEY NEED TO FACE STRAIGHT OUT
DETAIL THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT
PROVIDE AND INSTALL NEW SPARK PLUG WIRES AND HOSES AS NEEDED
FLUSH RADIATOR
PROVIDE AND INSTALL A WORKING RADIO
MAKE SURE THE TOP IS IN WORKING ORDER AND ADDRESS ANY RIPS OR TEARS
INSPECT THE LIGHTS AND SWITCHES TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE IN WORKING ORDER
PROVIDE AND INSTALL DYNAMAT UNDER THE NEW CARPET
PROVIDE AND INSTALL 442 BADGES AND EMBLEMS KEEP THE EXISTING WHEEL AND TIRES
UNDERCOAT THE UNDERBODY AND FRAME

 

1. That's 2 weeks' work.

2. That is an exceptionally vague agreement, and, I would submit, essentialy unenforceable in court (ie: "PAINT THE EXTERIOR SILVER" -- what exact color of silver? What type of paint? What type of primer? What type of treatment for the surface under the primer? What type of finishing for the paint? What quality does the paint job have to be? Etc., etc...).

Take the car, if you can.
Sell it for what you can get.
Walk away.

- Eric

 

Get it out of there, take the loss, and move on. The problem you're going to have is paying a lawyer to handle this half-way accross the country.

I did notice that DVAP has an A+ rating with the Phoenix BBB. You may be able to get some mileage out of filing a complaint against them with the BBB. You may be able to leverage the complaint to assist you in getting your car back.

Bottom line though is don't pay these guys any more money, you are not obligated to pay the $1,200 for the windshield replacement - it was their negligence that broke the original and its not part of your contract to pay for the re-install - get your car back and take it somewhere local or to someone on this site that is experienced with these cars. Don't have them do any more work, it will only get worse if you keep the car with them.

 

I agree. Get it out of there as soon as you can.
~BOB

 

Thanks Eric!

Right now I'm leaning toward getting it out of there and just enjoying it.

I haven't paid them the 2nd half yet. If I could pay them a small portion of the second half to get it out of there, I'd be happy with that.

My wife is a finance major. She won't let me take a loss on it... Not right now at least lol

 

That really sucks man!

My $0.02...

Ask for your $7k back, give them your documentation tell them to keep the car. Take the $14k you were going to spend on the clone resto and go find a nice, real, 442. They're out there.



That probably won't fly so I'd plan on gettng the car the hell outta there.

 

Dont give them another dollar. They didnt fix your car. They made it worse looks like. I would tell the guy that it seems like your about even and just ask for the car back.

If the paint job is good then you can do all the other little things or sub it out to some more reasonable guys.

 

No!!! Don't pay them anything more. Tell them they didn't even do half the job and you expect your car back asap and some of the money back. When they refuse, tell them you are going to file a complaint with the BBB and you are going to post bad things about them on Yelp and that you are going to sue them. Then, see if you can compromise with you getting your car back, and them getting no more money, including their ridiculous attempt to charge you $1,200 for the windhshield install. That is total BS.

Your wife needs to understand this is a car, not an investment!!!

 

A 1200$ windshield? You can get 3 dated installed here for that. I don't have to go 1200 miles to get raped. Go get it.Jeff

 

Do not give them 1 cent more. Go get the car & take a torch with you & throw it the right direction........

 

The car is about 80 percent done. How do I get my car back w/o paying them for the work done this far, w/o them holding my car hostage, and w/o getting a lawyer involved....I know none

Paint is on
Engine bay is tidied
Interior is in
Undercoat is on

BUT
Electrical isn't finished (left gauge isn't hooked up)
Interior isn't buttoned down every where. One of The door cards bulges
Badges are missing one side is on all a skew
Trim over the left head light is barely hanging on
ITS REALLY DIRTY and being left outside...on a paint job that's only a few months old!

 

Oh and there's gaps between the windows and the top.
There's also no horn

Basically this car wouldn't pass a simple TX safety inspection now

I

 

Give them two written estimates for how much it will cost you to get the car completed, including fixing their f'ups. And including a detail to clean it, and buff out the new paint that has been sitting outside, and including to get the windows/doors lined up so that the windows seal. That was part of their job too. Also you may have to pay to get the car inspected to make sure their was no water damage or weather damage, including beneath the carpet, after it sat outside with windows that don't seal.

 

Pay Up Move On..
Bargain$$ it down But Have Tow Truck There to Haul away.
Might already have lien On it for repairs

Watched the Show what did You expect? They are Not pro,s

They Paint a engine from the Yard to Look New and it went into the car and sold at auction.

He Loves Olds so your In for a fight.......

 

Your contract is not very specific as to time. I am sure you will have to pay to get it out of there. Or loose it. They have the car and that is the bad part. I suggest you have an attorney send them a letter to get it picked up. I would stress failure to complete the contract. I am sure they will finish it in order to get the money. You are pretty stuck. I suggest you never do business away from home. There are quality shops all over the country. Checking with a few local car clubs and talking to actual customers is always best.

I am so sorry you are going threw this. This type of thing is why good shops have a hill to climb in order to do business and not be prejudged. I had "Rodders Dreams" here in Redmond, Oregon do some work for me and it was very close to the estimate for both price and time.

I really hope this comes out way better than it looks like it will.

 

Just a FYI .......My windshield in my car a few years back was $350 installed........I would try to recoup some of my money and move on to a new restorer.......

 

A few thoughts....having been through similar situations...

That's not your problem. If they had the poor business sense to spend more than the contract (be it incompetence or intentional) without customer approval, that's on them.

If they said they could save the original, then there should be no charge for the new one due to their incompetence. And, like some others said: $1200 is crazy for what is usually a $200 piece of glass installed (particularly if they included removal & re-installation in your original contract)

A dollar says the owner was there....

C) Pull the plug and bring it home...

The shop has already admitted they don't see any profit in it. So unless you're going to throw out a bunch more money to make them happy, they're going to half-*** anything they do just to get it over with.

I went thru something similar recently, but I was only 15 mins from the shop and could drop in to check. I can't understand entrusting this kind of complex and costly project to an unknown/unfamiliar entity 1000 miles away...particularly without a very detailed written contract/work order...

 

Get ahold of the Texas Attorney Generals Office, and file a complaint!
If their anything like Illinois - they're like Pit Bulls. and won't let another state rip-off consumers, and they get ahold of the Arizona Attorney General and forward the complaint, for quick results!!
I did that for some Walt Disney mortgage company in Vegas, and had a check 2 days later!!
Can't hurt to try!!

 

Or plan a road trip with Guido, Luigi, Dom and Bubba, and TAKE IT BACK............

 

from what I read...can you just take the car out of there? or does he demand the 1200 for the windshield? either way I would get the car out of there and lick your wounds I wouldn't have him complete the job...you could pursue legal action or threaten him with it...if he wants the 1200 for windsheld install...with the threat of legal action he may let you go for the 7k in work done. you could possibly threaten him with contract breach but it may not be worth the time and expense.

 

You're being **** on something that doesn't matter at this point, to insist on it being completed or detail nit picking, will only cost you more, and delay getting your car from these idiots.

 

I'm going to be blunt and to the point.... Your not going to get anywhere and your in a tough spot. He knows the law better than you and you will get a lot farther with honey than vinegar. So negotiate a settlement, remove the car, and chalk it up to an expensive learning experience.

Your contract for this job sucks. The only people that will gain from litigation are attorneys, not you.

 

OldCutlass has it right.

The best "win" you could get would still be a "lose," so take the loss you've got as fast as you can, and make the best of it by selling and walking.

- Eric

 

I'm not suggesting he sell and walk, just settle and take it home.

 

And, once the attorneys & legal system are involved, you will be adding months/years to the process...

 

I have to agree, and what you've described is practice as usual for the restoration business. I've helped friends "rescue" cars from restorers. You're on the hook for the rest of the $14k, pay it, collect the car, and learn your lesson -- your wife wins on this one. The 1 square inch you've showed us looks pretty good to me...

As said above, there are real 442s out there (and H/O, W30...), if you'd bought one of those as a project you'd still be ahead.

Sorry to be so harsh, for anyone in this hobby - unless you can do your own work, only the "money cars" are worth spending the money for someone else to do the work.

Steve

 

You may have a lousy contract but I think you should get the most out of it you can. He wants the car less than you do so I don't expect you're going to be able to make that happen.

I know you said it's dirty but is the paint job and bodywork good? That's probably $6-$10k worth of the $14k. If it is, then agree on a final balance (subtracting what he either hasn't done, or done a crappy job with) and move on. Bodywork and paint is expensive. Everything else is a bolt on, line up, or hook up issue. You can find someone to do that for a reasonable price closer to home.

You said the badges aren't lined up. Were they supposed to fix that? Did they drill new the holes? Are they taped on with double sided tape? (a lot of places do it this way now).

I have one set of fender emblem holes that were slightly (1/2") off. The guy that painted my car never mocked up the emblems before painting the fender stripe on that side. He and I split the difference on repainting the fender because I drilled the original holes.

 

There's a great legal article in the latest issue of Hemmings Classic Car magazine. Page 16 is an article called Custom-Built Bel Air written by an attorney regarding a situation very similar to yours. The plaintiff was awarded a full reimbursement of all costs however a very specific and detailed contract was in place at the start of the restoration. A year later no payment has been made as the case has been appealed.

I think a conversation with the owner of DVAP is needed in order to negotiate a resolution. Certainly not the full amount but something amicable. Remember that much of the work has been completed but much more remains to be done. You'll need to determine your $$$ threshold and have some leverage before the call, such as threats of Attorney General involvement or a concerted marketing campaign of how you were slighted.

Overall though I'm in agreement with OldsCutlass in that it's best for both of you to settle and move forward.

Good luck,
Chris

 

Thanks to everyone!

I see the general consensus here. I hard a hard time sleeping last night b/c I was thinking of this.

I'm going to call them today and tell them to stop what they're doing- even though they're probably doing nothing.

I'm going to offer a small percentage over the 50% I've already given them of the estimated price, and that's NOT going to include the the windshield cost.

Time to bring it home.

I'll keep you posted.

 

If you're wanting to end up at 70% than start at something like 50%. Be sure to list everything that isn't done or done poorly so you have ammunition for the call. Be clear and professional when articulating your disappointment in their inability to finish the job for the agreed upon price.

 

They already have 50% from me from the initial setup. You're right though...Start out lower.

 

Face to Face you have No power over the Phone.
Jump on a Plane and leave with your Car.
Or want Til your There to start bargaining.

 

Hi.
Here's some thoughts on this. I think getting the car done is where the shop is failing. If they aren't making a profit on your car that's their problem not yours. It looks like they put your car out and moved on to something profitable. Which means to me, they may never get your car done. I hope you can apply some presure on them to finish what they started for the argeed price. How? Well first I would try to comunicate with them and see if they can produce something other then excuses. After that use any or all the suggestions in this thread.
I've been in the restoration business for thirty-five years in March and I've had to lose money on a few. However I've always worked hard to supply what I agreed to do no matter what. I've also finished jobs that started in other shops in situations much like yours. I'm discusted whenever I hear of stories like this because It can give my profession a bad rap. Best of luck on this. I think you'll need it. ~BOB

 

They're hacks. Did you see the episode where the paint the '68 or '69 GTO and after its sprayed they notice it has a bent frame?

Try to negotiate a fair price & take the car back.