oldsguybry

Well , I'm not doing any kind of restoration at this point . I hope to have a place and the money to do so some day , but for now I want the holes on the rear Qtr's and the fenders to go away , and maybe even try and put some epoxy on the car if everything goes well .... I'm tired of the mis-matched rattle can primer . I also have to deal with other areas on the car sooner or later too . In addition to this , I would like to get some Cragers or some other kind of mag rims and tires to improve the looks of the car . I would prefer some SS1 or SS2 rims for the car , but they are probably to expensive .... Anyways , here are some pictures on what I need to do and fix , and what i've done so far ( which is not much , but I will add more later on as I get to it . ) ....


This car is really becoming a site . Gotta love the greasy two toned primer color . The fender is actually the same color as the other panels , I just sanded it at one point .


I'm going to have to improve the gap between the door and fender . I'll have to loosen all the bolts on the fender and the radiator support , and move it back about a 1/8 inch . I will also have to get rid of that orange color in between the panels . There were a few real small holes , so I added some Evercoat lightweight autobody filler that needs to be sanded yet ....


Here's the fillers I bought ....


Here's a damaged spot on the fender that needs to be repaired eventually ....

oldsguybry

The rear bumper has to be replaced . I'm not sure it could even be used as a core . It's twisted in about every direction imaginable . I may be able to get if repaired , but it may be cheaper to get a replacement instead . The trunk lid also had some damage on it . There was a dent to the right of the lock that I filled with the same filler years ago . Three out of the four corners on the trunk lid do not line up properly either ....



The area behind the back window had about a dozen or so holes going acrossed that I filled a while ago . I'm sure the window track has rotted spots too ....



The roof is not in the greatest shape either . You can see the bubbled up spots under the vinyl ....


The roof right above the windshield has a dent where the dark mark is from vandelism . There is a reinforcement brace on the inside of the car that kept me from popping it out ....

oldsguybry

This is the driver side rear Qtr lower . I put ONLY 1 coat of POR on it years ago , and it held up great ! I need to clean it up and add another ... or something . Then I'll have to use a steel putty to hold some aluminum door screen in there , and put the fiberglass filler over that , and finishing filler like I did on the other side that I will show you at the end of this series of pics ....



Here's a problem spot on the same wheel well . There are more of these as you go around the wheel well . It's in a place that you can't get to from the inside of the trunk . I'll have to clean that up to the best of my ability , and pour a rust ecapsulator in there to stop the rust until I can get the sheet metal work done on this car ....


Now we come to the door . You can see a crack in the filler to the right of the mirror , and some of the same on the left of the mirror . There must be some kind of damage or hole under that spot . I had most of it sanded down at one time , and everything seems ok except for the spot with the crack in it . I didn't investigate any further at that time , but will have to sand the rest of that old filler out of there , and see what I have ....


Here's the driver side fender , which had a big friken hole that I removed ALL the rust on the inside , added a piece of screen held in with steel putty , and put in some fiberglass filler to fill the void , and finished it off with the finishing filler . This also needs to be sanded yet , along with the fender gap issue that I already explained . I'm not going to get into the actual fender repair where I removed the brace and sandblasted it . This is not a restoration yet , and it wont EVER be a HIGH END restoration either . I would like it to be , but don't have the place , money , and exp .... blah blah blah ....

oldsguybry

The part I'm not sure what i'm going to do with . I may have to do the rust ecapsulator thing again until I can get this fixed down the road . The dash rust goes all the way across almost . I hope it don't fall off ! ....



Lastly is the underbody . There's no way i'm sandblasting this with the small compressor and cheap blast gun I have ! I may have to grind , sand , and wire wheel myself to death on this . i'm also not sure what I'm going to use for paint . Probably epoxy ....

oldsguybry

Here's the rear Qtr on the passenger side i've been working on lately . I did the putty/screen thing on this . I would of had a piece of metal welded behind the group of holes , but I don't weld , and I don't expect this to last forever . I think it could potentially last years though , because that fiberglass filler from Evercoat is some good stuff ! ....

BEFORE


AFTER

oldcutlass

Nice work, it just takes time.

oldsguybry

Thanks . Let me tell you how much fun I had with that rear Qtr area ! There are a lot of bends and edges to deal with .

Edit .... I removed all the POR on the outside of the panel before I started adding filler . That was also fun

ent72olds

Bryan...now that's what I'm talkin' about! You don't need to be able to weld to have a decent driver. Take it one panel at a time, fix what's on there, move to the next...before you know it, you'll need paint! You could get a cheap enamel job at a Maacco or place like that. A solid color that is forgiving. If you do the prep, could only cost a few hundred bucks! If the top is clean, just leave it for now....as far as wheels, I have a set of ss2's 14" though, that you can have for $25 plus shipping...then you're good to go, with little investment! The repair looks pretty good my friend!

Allan R

Bryan,

I'm going to say - congratulations for taking on what you felt comfortable with. IMO you're making a reasonable effort to preserve the car till it can be done 'right' as you've said. Some time in the future when you have the time/space/tools and a few more $$. Skills will come along as you gain the knowledge and experience working with new products and equipment. At least that's how it worked for me. Oh yeah, gotta be committed to the project - and I think you are.

The only thing that I think you'll need to keep an eye on is that rust on the inner dash. It's totally gone on that corner - which you know is problematic for these cars. Prolly the windshield butyl seal let go there. For now - don't worry about it too much. I'd be tempted to pull the windshield trim and use some black windshield caulk to skim along edges of all the glass. That's where water has been getting in. It appears to be a small enough area in your picture, but it could easily spread. If you can seal the water out for now that would be 100% better than it is. Windshield trim - use a trim tool to release the sides and top molding then undo the screws that hold the cowl trim. Trim can be snapped back on in the reverse order that it was removed. Water has a funny way of flowing in places you would never imagine. Go ahead, ask me how I know.

Just a thought - There is a tiny bit of bubbling under the vinyl top close to the window trim pieces, but your package tray area looks good. Short of replacing the vinyl right now, I'd consider spraying it with a clear sealer to keep any moisture from seeping through the top and increasing the rust that's already there. It's a temporary fix and just offered as a helpful suggestion.

Under the car - no don't even think of sandblasting that as is. A new tank is actually pretty cheap down there, so that's what I'd do. Another approach might be (and this is something that DOES happen) to drain it and take it to a rad shop. They can boil/clean it just like they do a rad. Give it back to you without a lot of rust on it, plus all the crud inside will be gone too. Then it will be safe to wire wheel if you so choose. I'd spray it with clear to give it the original look.

The rear axle you can take out when you do that - hmmm, sounds like the same things I ended up doing this past year. Feel free to visit that 'Gassed' thread for anything that will help you. BTW, if you haven't changed the gear oil in it, it's prolly time. Beware though buddy - that stuff is powerful stinky. All you need is a new pumpkin seal and 4 quarts of gear oil (80-90wt) The diff bung is 3/8" and undoes with a 3/8 socket extension - pretty easy huh? This is just the small stuff that's part of preventive mtce - most peeps overlook the diff.

re: rear bumper. You know I have one that is OEM and in mint shape. When you're ready, LMK. If I still have it I'm sure we can work out something unless you find one closer.

It sounds like you're finally having some fun. If your car was a girl, I'd bet she'd be smiling with the lipstick you're giving her. Overall? Some good cosmetic progress.

oldsguybry

Thanks , I will definetely use the advice as I slowly move my way around the car . There are a lot of areas I have to deal with yet while trying to dodge the owners of the apartment at the same time I'm not going to get to crazy and get in trouble , but i've doing a little bit here and there . The rear package tray you mentioned , is that behind the rear window where all the studs are sticking up ? If so , it may look good , but if I remove the filler I put on there a couple of years ago it's got about a dozen small holes going across where the small strip of vinyl was . The dash is rusted through all the way across pretty much which kind of worries me that it may end up in my lap or something . I seen a thread on this site where they put some kind of sealer on the roof when they removed the vinyl top , and it turned black when it's dry . I believe it's called Fertan . I'm worried that I'll end up with some holes on the roof , and then it will be raining in my car . I'm also worried about pulling the glass out . I'm afraid i'll break it or something . I know i'll be dealing with rusty window tracks when I do . Well work killed me today , and it's getting REAL late . I will have to add more to this later .

edit ... The bumper and rims sounds good when I get the money , if shipping is feasable .

BIGJERR

New rims would make it a hotrod.......Just saying.....

slantflat

Looks good Bryan. Bodywork could be your next calling.

Allan R

Bryan, I wasn't suggesting taking out the glass. Just remove the outside trim so you can lay down a bead of butyl around the edge of the windshield. It will seal any small leak areas that you can't really see with your eye. If you want to see exactly where it's leaking, take off the trim and start spraying the front. From inside you will see the water soon as it makes it's way through. Hardly worth that effort though for now.

re: package tray. No, the package tray is inside the car. What you described is the rear filler panel sheet metal outside. If it has small pin holes, for convenience right now just leave it be. Those studs are the mounts for the plastic clips that hold the vinyl top trim - hopefully you still have that somewhere. You can see it better in this picture. Good news is the clips are available at a number of on line resto stores.



re: dash rust. Bummer. That's going to take some work to fix. Good thing though is the dash won't fall in on you. Check your 72 AM and you'll see that there's other bracing and support that prevents that. It does however make the windshield unstable at the bottom, but it's secured on three other surfaces that likely are pretty solid? With some luck maybe you can get the front dash to cowl metal from someone who's parting out a car. They are all the same structure for 70-72 and for all f85/Cutlass/VCs. Could easily be stored inside the car. For right now I'd just focus on getting the water seal around the front glass and leave the front cowl to dash repair till later.

Just curious. Are those tires F78/14 bias plys? They look like they are just about bald. Be careful on that - 2 reasons. a) They're past a safe rolling date. b) legally a police officer could cite you for running them if he inspected the car. I know you're not driving the car right now - but for when you do? I'd prolly hit a tire store pronto.

oldsguybry

Yeah the tires are real bald , and that's the first thing i'm going to do with what's left of the tax money we will have . I'm going to have to buy new rims too . I really don't want to put tires on these rims , and then have to buy another set for the rims I want . Eventually I will have two sets , the originals , and the mags . I want to take ent72olds up on his offer for the rims he has . I'm thinking he means $25 for each rim ? Even that's a heck of a deal I would think . I couldn't imagine that price for four rims .... although shipping will probably be somewhat expensive , maybe thats why . How hard will it be to find tires for those rims ? I will probably have to buy new ones .

How hard will it be to remove the windshield trim ? Is there a special tool for that ?

I do have all the trim for the car , but the clips will all have to be replaced .

Allan R

It's really easy to remove the windshield trim and yes there's a special tool. Looks like the very bottom one in this pic and you can get it pretty much at any auto store. (dorman HELP tools IIRC)


The clips are also available. Check AMK fasteners.

69442C

Bryan,

I like what you've done and your work looks very nice. This is a much better route for you to go to stop the rust for now and that FG filler is good stuff. This sure beats cutting the panels apart and then having to worry about finding someone to weld in patches and how much they will charge. I think you'll be surprised at how long your repairs will last, which will likely be long enough until you're in a situation to fix it the right way or maybe even get a more solid car. Good job and good luck with the work as you go along.

Brian

oldsguybry

Thanks for the comments ... I'm hoping to get to the other side starting this weekend .

Allan R

Bryan,
Remember I said you might find a complete cowl to dash replacement? Just found one for you. Only have to use the part you need but this looks really solid and I'm sure it could be trimmed and patched to your existing dash. Have a look; it's prolly not that expensive to ship - might even go greyhound?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-1972-Ch...sories&vxp=mtr

Eddie Hansen

Nice work Bryan ,

oldsguybry

Wowsers , I'm gonna have to see if I can swing this even though christmas presents already killed me financially ...... Thanks

edit.... grrrrr , I would have to come up with about $230 all together to get this here . I can't justify spending that kind of cash right now .

oldsguybry

Thanks Eddie

coppercutlass

I would just like to say you will be amazed at how long a fiber glass patched and filled repair will last. me and a friend are restoring a 69 cutlass for a local racer and the rear quarters where nuthing but fiberglass cloth and and practicefiller. It was done back in the 80's lol. It didnt have a crack split nothing it looked good till we cut the quarter off. Little by little you will feel mor comfortable with body work buy some books and practice. Whe u sand filler use guide coat/ satin black speckled on to the filler to see if you have low or high spots low spots will have the black paint and the high spots will be exposed very quickly as you sand. Another good trick to see if your body work is good is use a little wax and grease remover sprayed onto the area you fixed the sheen will almost act like a clear coat and you will be able to see any imperfection. I strongly recommend using guide coat in areas with body lines it really helps you have corners . Btw on the dash when it comes time to it dont buy one have aglass guy remove it and see how bad it really is. I repaired mine with very thin gauge sheet metal and 3m panel bond it has been 6 years and no rust has popped through.

oldsguybry

Thanks for the tips copper ..... I'm pretty bummed about the roof now . I had someone vandalized about 10 yrs ago . I parked in front of someones house , and when I came back , someone dented the roof all up ! I pounded most of the dents out from the inside after I removed the liner that was toast anyways . I was feeling around on the roof last night , and it still has about 6 areas that i'm going to have to add filler to smooth out remaining dents . I have half the mind to park my car there again this summer , and see what happens . If it happens again , someone is going to the hospital to say the least ..... I'm also bummed about the pillar in between the windshield and the passenger side door . It must have extensive rust under the vinyl . I can feel it through the vinyl . You can also feel the lumps in the spots where they welded the roof on . I may end up going back to a vinyl roof after I fix the roof down the road .

Allan R

Sorry to hear the cowl piece didn't work out for you. I'm sure you'll be able to fix it one way or another.

oldsguybry

Well either way I will have to remove the glass when I get to the roof part in order to get all the rust cleaned up . How hard and / or risky is it to take the glass out ? ( windshield / rear window ) I know I will need a couple of those glass suction cup deals . We have some at work for lifting heavy metal panels . Would these work ? or do I need special ones for glass ?

Edit .... Does the vinyl just fold under the trim pieces ? or does it actually go under the glass at all ? I know this is probably a dumb question

oldsguybry

I know these look rather crude , but they will work for what I need to do . I wanted to put one more coat of POR on the other rear Qtr area where the holes are , so I can add the screen and filler process . You can't clean the brushes once you get POR on them , so I didn't put much into creating these , and my kids were not going to let me get away with this without making them each a brush , so they could run around tickling people with them . I only need two of these brushes to fit in the areas i'm coating . The other two are just extras . These brushes were made from a half wore out painters brush . I really didn't want to wreck the brush , because they are a pro series brush which are not cheap , but I have more of them ....

Allan R

Bryan - they look like Harry Potter 'specials' but who cares?

re: glass removal. What I found worked really well taking out the rear glass in the Cutlass S was done in warmer times. I had a buddy go with me to the wreckers. We had
1. a can of WD-40
2. a length of piano wire (something like a long guitar string?) The wrapped wires work best for 'cutting' through the butyl
3. 2 5" dowels to wrap the wire around for leverage.
4. a coathanger
5. A moving blanket

Here's how it went. The trim came off no problem - inside and out. Then I used the coathanger to poke a hole through the butyl - large enough to get the piano wire through. Robert stayed on the outside; I went inside.

Insert the piano wire through the hole you made and spray a section of outside butyl with WD40. We both wrapped the piano wire around the dowels we brought and started 'sawing' as we moved around the window. Spray, saw, spray saw.... it took about 30 minutes of sweating to get it out, but it came out in one piece. Wrapped in the piano blanket and 20.00 at the cashier. The rest of the butyl came off with a razor blade at home. Then just clean and it's good to go.

The channels around the window will likely need something like a flatblade screwdriver to clean up, then wire wheel it.

Hope that is useful to you. I did not need any suction cups for the glass. I think that's more related to the install where you want it going in at the exact right location; again you will need 2 people for the install.

EDIT: yes, when you take off the glass trim you will see the vinyl just tucks under it by about 1/2"

oldsguybry

, that's funny

Thanks a million , that'll come in handy

oldcutlass

If you are going to go with another set of wheels, I would highly recommend a 15" rim. Your choice of tire is limited with the 14's.

Very nice work on the rust repairs!

69442C

[QUOTE=oldsguybry;489005] I wanted to put one more coat of POR on the other rear Qtr area where the holes are , so I can add the screen and filler process . QUOTE]

Bryan,

The fiberglass filler needs to be applied directly to bare metal or bare
metal that has been sprayed with a high quality epoxy primer that is allowed to cure and is then sanded. Filler should not be applied on top of POR. These repairs you are doing will last a long time but only if you do them correctly. Give the POR to the kids and tell them to hide it on you.

Brian

oldsguybry

[QUOTE=69442C;489280]LOL Brian , my kids would be black then . I thought of that with the POR . I sanded the sheetmetal to bare before I added the filler . The filler doesn't touch any of the POR surface . It mainly just fills the hole , and coats the screen behind it . Let me tell you how much fun it is trying to sand the POR off . I'm not going to be using POR anymore . I want to go with epoxys from now on . I would powdercoat the frame parts , but I don't have a oven big enough .... Maybe Jamesbo would borrow me his Easy Bake oven .

Allan R

Bryan

which frame parts are you talking about powder coating? Some of the new paints offered today offer excellent protection against rust if you've properly prepped the surfaces first (sanded and tack cloth with metal conditioner to remove any flash rust). Paint = $8 - $10/can. Powder coat = morebuxnpaint. Even doing my axle this fall, I opted for paint over powder coat. Turned out just fine and I didn't have to haul it around to the PC shop and back. Most of the engine paints are designed to be sprayed right onto bare metal without priming. Something to consider......

If you're worried about baking the parts? Wait till the hot summer and let them cure outside in the sun.

oldsguybry

Can you really let them just bake in the sun ? That would be cool , but I agree with what you said before that . I will just paint everything instead of going crazy and doing something I can't afford ..... as far as the rest of the car , I started sanding the sheetmetal where I got the POR on , and then I'm going to fill the hole . Then it's time to sand the filler down on the fenders , and then move onto the drivers door , where there is a damaged spot right by the mirror .

Allan R

Bryan
Yes, you actually can use the heat of the summer to bake the paint. I did that with my drive shaft and it turned out killer. Paint is tight with no cracking or bubbling. Very similar to the concept of baking a car at around 150°F in a paint booth nowadays, only you'll never get it that hot. Let's put it this way - you're not going to hurt those parts by baking them in the sun with fresh paint. Just don't paint in the sun on hot metal. Let it dry for several hours, then bake it in the sun.

re: sanding down the POR. Good decision. Your approach to fixing the obvious problem areas and being methodical in your approach will pay off. Brian gave you excellent advice.

re: the door damage. Looking at your car pics, I'd suggest you take off the drivers side inner door panel and water shield. The remote head of the mirror is held to the bezel with a small allen head screw. Undo it slightly and the mirror pivot will slide out Then remove the mirror to give the best working area on the door skin. The mirror should come off by undoing 2 screws from the inside of the door panel, then just lift the mirror and gasket off. The window needs to stay raised to access those screws. It's a bit tight if you have big hands and you may also get a bit scraped because those inner door piercings are sharp in places.

oldsguybry

Yeah I remember how much fun it was trying to get that mirror back on the last time I had it off ( small hands needed ) . I really wish I would of dealt with that trouble spot on the door then . I also would like to put some epoxy on the body panels . I will have to do one panel at a time since the car needs to be sanded the rest of the way to bare metal . I see now why I should of waited to do this all at once . I was just worried about the rust getting worse , and with my sometimes unstable home life , I never know what may happen next , and me and my car may end up on the outside looking in . If that should occur , I already have plans to get rent a storage garage to put the car in to keep it out of the elements . I started it today , and the motor really sounds good .... except for the rap / knock on the top of the motor . I'm going to have to replace the intake manifold gasket , because it is leaking . This may give me a chance and clean the goop up that may be blocking some of the drain holes . I did the valve cover gaskets last summer , and don't recall any sludge buildup in there . The rapping sound sounds like a push rod or something . I also need to adjust the carburator , and check the timing and the timing chain . There is so much to do on this car that I have not mentioned yet , I may not be able to drive it this summer .

Allan R

Bryan
That top end noise sounds a lot like a stuck tappet (lifter). If you're going to replace the intake gasket, that's the perfect time to deal with the tappet.

oldsguybry

Just to make sure we are on the same page . It doesn't sound like the typical lifter tick that an old motor would have . A rapping sound seems to fit the best .

Allan R

Rapping might be the sound of a piston not firing. Check to see if you're getting spark to the cylinder. Also pull the plug and take a look at how it's been burning. Is the car running a little uneven?

Could be as simple as replacing the spark plug wire or the distributor cap. I'm just guessing since I'm not there. Check the wire also to see if the metal contacts in the boots have corroded.

oldsguybry

I replaced the plugs , wires , cap , rotor , and the points last year . The car runs rough at idle , and the carb is WAY out of whack ... It seems like one tailpipe is blowing out a real rich smell that will burn your eyes , and the other has a lean smell or burnt carbon smell . I get both of these smells coming off of this car . I'm betting the timing is off , and the chain may even be worn out , but that would mean taking off the waterpump again lol . Did I tell you that I like doing things over and over ? I think i'm too impatient , and that's how I end up in these situations , and / or this 41 year old car really needs a lot of fixes .

oldsguybry

Did I mention I had a 455 ? That would open up a whole new world of hurt though !