oldsguybry

I hope the search is over anyhow . The alternator was completely shot , so I had to use my battery to test drive it . The mileage is 141,000 , and the motor sounds great , but it did not want to accelerate , like there is no power . It finally did and drove decent , but it seemed like the accelerator has a bad spot when you push the gas down ( no power but motor does not die ) I'm hoping the gas pedal problem is just a lack of juice from the charging system . I'm going to get an alternator at the parts store today . They seem to cost about $80 for this model , and easy to replace . There are other things wrong too . It's either leaking antifreeze or tranny fluid . I'm pretty sure it's tranny fluid , the pan looked wet . It needs rotors bad , a tune up bad , and a bunch of little electrical things ( car is loaded )

Oh ... I got it for $1000.00

oldsguybry

It's a 93 Buick Lesabre with the 3.8V6 3800 motor . The guy I bought this from sells cars all the time 365 days a year ( I'd like to know where he finds this stuff ) Usually The minute someone buys a car from him , he has another one just like it for sale . The minute I bought this one he had another one just like this one except for in better shape and a little newer perhaps too . He was asking $650 more then what I bought this one for , so wish I would of waited maybe . I know the price on the window of mine says $1500.00 but he dropped $500.00 when he realized the alternator was shot ( battery was dead , and the motor would die when you pulled the battery cable while running ) That threw a red flag out there , but I bought into it anyhow ( The motor sounds awesome ) The body looks the best from the side shown , The rocker panels are all rotted out , and there is a small dent on the passenger side . The inner rear wheel well is rotted out on the passenger side . The fenders are plastic The inside smells kinda moldy . The trunk smells even moldier , and is missing the spare tire , jack , and tire iron .

Redog

Nice car

TPS Sensor is shot. $30 part

It's on the throttle body, easy to replace.

I think they are Torx bolts on there though. I want to say T-20.

That's your accel problem.

Plugs, wires, and since those coils look orginal, I would get a new ICM and 3 new coils. The new coils will not have numbers on them though. I suggest some kind of labeling on the coils or wires, or remove the coils with the wires still attached. The coils are held in place buy very long 5.5mm bolts. I forget the size of the bolts on the ICM though.

I only buy ACDelco plugs that came with the car. The newer GM motors don't seem to like anything else. Anti-sieze on the threads of the plugs and a good quality dielectrical grease on the boots. Just replaced my wires two weeks ago. What a bitch because I used cheap grease

oldsguybry

Thank you very much for that info . I sure hope that's the problem , since I went through hell with a lemon vehicle that I married into and sold . I'm gonna get over to the auto parts store tomorrow and see about that sensor . I may have some other problem besides the alternator I replaced . When I bought the car the battery was dead , so I took the one from my CS and started it . The motor would die when you removed one of the battery cables , so I bought an alternator . Now when I remove one cable it stays running , but if I then remove the other the engine dies . I thought the car would run under it's own power with a good alternator ? There are no engine lights on or gen light so I'm assuming everything should be fine , but I'm taking the battery cables off tonight to be sure . I also have not put my own gas in it yet which leads me to my next question ... Should I add some Marvel Mystery Oil to the gas after I fill up ? I also need to change the oil etc ... etc.... Once again thanks for your help ! I'll also be adding some more pics when I get the chance .

oh BTW ... gotta love those plastic engine parts and fenders eh ? lol

oldsguybry

Ok , I tried searching the internet on where exactly this TPS sensor is , and on one site it mentioned putting the bolts back in the way you got them out on the adjustment or something The only thing I'm sure of so far is ... The TPS sensor is on the throttle body . I went to a couple of other sites on the repair , and they say just unscrew bolts , put new part on , and re-attach wire plug . I may have to do the trial and error approach .

Do I have to remove anything to see the throttle body ? I'm going to go out and pop the hood and do some snooping

oldsguybry

I'm assuming this is the part in pic 1 . How do I get to those screws ? Right below them is the manifold . The 2nd and 3rd pic shows a worn out motor mount rubber pad which could be part of the weird acceleration issue too . The last pics show where the tranny leak is coming from . The tranny cooling/return lines ....

oldsguybry

Here's the last pic of the tranny lines...

oldsguybry

Sorry if this thread don't belong here , but I really would like to be able to drive my car I just purchased , and kinda need it for work . This also gives me a chance to get repairs started on th 72 CS for I don't have to depend on it as a DD . I appreciate any input on this matter .

Allan R

Bryan, I had a 95 series 2 3800. Shouldn't be too much different from yours on the TB setup. Have a look at this thread: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post123672

This is when I pulled the TB for cleanup. Replaced the IAC, cleaned MAF, left the TPS alone. Should be in the same place for your car I think.

EDIT: If the rockers are shot on that car? Run away from it as fast as you can. They're horribly expensive to repair. I know this from experience now. Fix the accel and ditch that car fast! First one with 1100 in hand.... sorry to be the guy who tells you this. Do NOT get sentimentally attached to the car. On the other hand, you can drive it till it falls apart - whichever you prefer. Just trying to give you the benefit of my experience with mid 90's GM.

oldsguybry

Thanks , I just took a quick look through it , and that thread will come in handy .

as far as the other part of what you said What ? I could give a rats butt about what the car looks like . It's just going to get me from point A to point B , and give me a chance to work on the CS without having to drive it .

Dont worry Allen I wont get attached to it

oldsguybry

I went on the local auto parts sites and got a few pics of the Throttle Positioning Sensor with one side that looks to have some kind of adjustment ... any thoughts or ideas on this would be great . Do I have to calibrate it or some thing or does it come ready to bolt on ? I'm assuming that tab must fit in some kind of slot where it pulled off from . I also noticed that the gas guage dont work ( I tried to put $20 in the tank and it filled it to the top . The guage never leaves 1/4 tank ) , one electric window only goes up or down from the master switch , the passenger door dont lock ( will have to take the panel off to see what's up ) but everything else works great ...

oldsguybry

This was the only thing I could think of that would work on the TPS ....



I need something that bends because of the manifold that is right behind the TPS screws.

Allan R

Long as you're happy with it. With all that corrosion I'd suggest you also take a good look at the metal fuel and brake lines going from the engine to the back (IIRC they are on the RS of the car)

I never took mine off. I did look at a couple sites that said for 93 you just unscrew the old and install the new. Maybe a good idea to ask a mechanic though.

You may have a faulty sending unit. On your 93 the fuel pump and sending is inside the gas tank IIRC. The power windows on those cars (especially rear) are subject to that problem. Mine did the same thing. I believe it's the motor itself. It would work when temps were cool but not when hot; so I think the field coil on the motor was affected. The PDL could just be a bad actuator. Check the connections for corrosion too.

oldsguybry

Its not the TPS . The car still accelerates funny , like it's plugged or fuel injectors . I still have a lot to do on the car , and found out what the empty corroded radiator looks like . It looks like Dexcool antifreeze was in there , but I don't think they invented Dexcool back in 93 yet .... once i'm done with the fuel system cleansing , and the tune up , hopefully it will run better .

oldsguybry

Fuel Injectors , Fuel Pump ( pressure ) , Bad Coil Module under coil packs , Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor ? ( Is this the " MAF " you were talking about in your thread Allen ? ) I don't think it's the Fuel Filter , because it has not died at all , and I will have to inspect the plugs too.

"The two hot cables going to a single hot post has to be cleaned often. " I got this quote from that thread you gave me the link to . I'll have to also check this . I'm also wondering how dirty the Throttle Body is , I'll just have to keep reading your lengthly thread

Allan R

Bryan, if it's bogging under heavy throttle it might just be a plugged fuel filter. The fuel rails should have about 40 psi. If you decide to change the fuel filter the easiest thing to do is take out the fuel pump relay and run the car till it quits. Then you won't have to worry about fuel spraying all over when you undo the filter nuts. You will get some leaking from the filter/fuel line when you undo it though. The filter on your car is likely on the bottom of the floor pan just in front of the right rear wheel. You may need a quick release tool for the fittings. When you've replaced it, put back the relay, then turn the key to on about 3 times to cycle the fuel pump and get some pressure in the fuel rail. It might take about 3 - 4 seconds of cranking before it starts.

It didn't sound to me like it was the TPS BTW.

Just on general principle, it might be a good idea to take off the TB and clean it. That or run some seafoam through the car. Chances are the TB and IAC pintle are starting to get gummy/carboned up.

oldsguybry

It did not sound like the TPS to you , and your telling me now ?
It's not just with heavy throttle that it hesitates/bogs , when it's cold it's worse too . I'm definetly going to add the filter to the list of things I need to do and replace though .

Allan R

D'ohhhhh yup. I consider my suggestions just one persons point of view. You're ultimately the guy who's stuck with the workload. Besides, changing the TPS is cheap and not that hard, right?

The more common things to replace are IAC and MAF. But seriously I'd look at that filter first. When you're not getting proper pressure at the fuel rail, always start with the easy stuff before going nuclear.

If you take off the TB? You might want to drain some coolant first. I don't know about the series 1 3800's but mine had a coolant jacket just below the TB and it will leak coolant if you don't drain some. (not much, maybe about a quart). I found that TB removal was actually pretty easy. Cleanup took not long, and reinstall was budda bing budda boom - done.

OH- when you're doing stuff with these electronic cars, you should be disconnecting the neg battery terminal. That's actually a step in the repair procedures manual for anything electrical.

oldsguybry

The radiator seems fine . I filled with water and ran it for awhile , and have not found any leaks yet . I was going to flush it , but did not have the right tools with me to get the bottom radiator hose off . Tomorrow I will flush & fill . The battery that the car came with is from 2009 and is marginal according to the Batteries Plus employee that charged it up . I'm also going to try and clean some of those parts that are mentioned in Allen's thread if the changing of the fuel filter does not do anything .

oldsguybry

The motor mount is toast . I noticed a clunk when I hit the gas hard , and realized it must be the motor moving up & down . If you look at the pics toward the top of this thread you can see how messed up it is . There is a gap you can stick your finger in where the rubber is , and it's crooked and off to one side . I also noticed when I rev the motor fast from the linkage under the hood it bogs , but if you accelerate past that spot where it bogs , it returns to normal . I'm now thinking these two problems are whats making the car jerk around .

oldsguybry

Automatic transmission: 440-T4 automatic transmissions may shift late or not upshift at all. The problem is a stuck throttle valve inside the transmission. (All years)

Coolant leak: The 3.8-liter V6 may leak coolant into the engine from the intake manifold. A new gasket kit, revised throttle body nuts, and sealing compound is available. Redesigned manifolds are also available in the aftermarket. (1993-99)

Engine knock and oil leak: Models with the 3.8-liter engine are prone to excessive oil consumption often accompanied by spark knock due to failure of the valve-stem seals. (1993-95)

Engine noise: An intermittent rattling noise at start up is often caused by automatic-transmission pump starvation or cavitation, or a sticking pressure-regulator valve. (1992-95)

These are a few things I found , with number one and two being a concern that I have .

CQR

Possible that the MAf only needs cleaned. they will get contaminated and cause a problem.

oldsguybry

Thanks lots ! .... This is what I found ......

Your local Auto Parts (like AutoZone or O'reilly Auto Parts) will have the appropriate MAF Sensor Cleaner. The most common/popular is the CRC Mass Air Sensor Cleaner (part number: 05110).

Looks pretty easy . Take part off , spray with cleaner , Don't touch the hot wires or bump them , just spray them with cleaner . Then return the part to throttle body and hope that fixes it . $7 at Oreily .

I'm going to take part off and look at it . If it seems dirty then I'll buy the spray and clean it and see .

Allan R

Bryan,
the MAF sensor wires are VERY thin. You likely won't be able to see if they're dirty. A good spray of electrical contact cleaner really does work. That stuff works fast and dries almost in a few seconds.

The intake manifold and coolant leak is very common with the 3.8 I had to to mine too at about the same mileage. You should also check the pcv valve on that car. I'm betting it has never been changed. When I bought my 95 Regency, I didn't know where it was hiding till I looked it up. Very inconspicuous and a little difficult to get the top off, but the valve was one solid gob of gunk. That's a very overlooked item in routine maintenance. http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1/bl307.htm

The AT did leak on my car too, but the shifting was just fine. As long as it's doing that, just keep topping the fluid.

CQR

The mount you show in your pic's don't often cause a clunk or drastic motor shift when bad. usually its one the front crossmember or the rear crossmember. I have replaced very few of those front mounts.(and it really doesn't look that bad to me from what I see in the pic)

oldsguybry

so there's a gap in the rubber above where the bolt hole in the rubber is , and that wont cause problems ? It seems the bolt can move around in there freely if it wants ( I'm just judging by my pinky fitting in there ) and it looks like the other end of the bolt is way closer to one side of the housing then being in the middle like it should be . I'm no expert with cars of this era , but I'll look where the other mounts are and the condition they are in . If it seems feasable , I was going to put a jack under the motor and see if that mount moves at all when I jack up on the motor a tiny bit before I replace the mount ... looks like an easy repair though .

oldsguybry

I'm going to look at the tranny lines again . I thought that they were in good shape before they run in front of the radiator , so I was going to tube cut them and replace them tomorrow , tomorrow , tomorrow .... etc ... etc . I somewhat flushed the radiator and put 50/50 in there . I have found no leaks so far , and the oil is fine so far . Where is the pcv valve ?

Allan R

Check that link I posted. I believe it's for the series 1

oldsguybry

Ok , I was wrong about where the bolt rides , here's a pic I got from Oreily auto part site ... something still does not look right though . I'm gonna go on lunch here at work and will take another look .




after further review .... this must be the cheap version .

oldsguybry

This one is a little easier to see . On mine there is a big hole above the spacer that the bolt runs through . The bolt can move around in that space and is completely exposed , and seems to be broke away from the rubber .

CQR

If it is broken away from the rubber, then it needs replaced, but in your pic it looks like the rubber on both sides is still attached. The best way to check, is to have someone lightly power brake the car in drive & reverse while you are looking for the 'lift' of the engine. There is more constant stress in drive and usually you will see more movement while power braking in drive. Then you can see which mount is torn and causing the 'lift'

oldsguybry

Ok , I gave the motor throttle from under the hood in park , and I could see the mount move a little , so yea it's toast . I should have a replacement by tomorrow at Oreily's . I also did not see the little pin sticking out above where the TPS mounts , so it was in front of the adjustment instead of behind it . I took everything off and fixed the problem , and now the car accelerates much better . I also cleaned the MAF , but there was a spot on one of the hot leads that would not come off . I may have to replace it . The car still has a little bog on the throttle yet , but I'm going to put some seafoam or mystery oil in the gas and see what that does + check the fuel filter .

oldsguybry

Ok , what were the chances of the PCV being under the MAP sensor that I had off today ? Pretty good according to your link . No big deal though . It's only three screws , but I had to laugh after reading the link , and looking at the picture of where the valve is after having the MAP sensor off earlier in the day . Thanks for the link Allen . Now I dont have to ask where it is .

oldsguybry

This is what it should look like ....



I will install this weekend .

Allan R

Glad you found it. It's in a completely different place on the series 11. I think they learned a bit from the mtce items on the series 1.

oldsguybry

I messed around with it for a couple of hours , and the bottom two bolts were turning pretty hard . I'm not sure if it was because of corrosion on the bolt itself or if there was pressure on it . I had 6 x 6 block with 2 x 4's under the frame (wheel off ground) , and a jack under the oil pan , and the bolt out of the mount . When I tried to raise the motor nothing moves by the mount , the whole car raises . It seems you have to go downward with the mount once you have the 4 bolts out . The bushing on the mount that the bolt goes through sits on a groove on both sides of the engine mount bracket from the motor , and you have to remove the mount itself downward to get the bushing out of the bracket . The only problem is the frame is in the way to go down , so you would have to lift the motor up to clear it perhaps . The instructions I found online on this repair said it was 123 easy . Next time I mess with this I was going to use my engine hoist to hold it from the top , and get the two stubborn bolts out and see if I can wedge it out of there that way ..... For now I was going to jam a piece of rubber in the gap and see if that makes any difference . If it does , I may just take the part back and leave it alone .

oldsguybry

Ok , I'm back ! after standing at the cliffs edge , I decided to get back to my projects . I need to start by repurchasing and replacing this motor mount this weekend . I sprayed some PB Blaster on the bolts the other day , and I also obtained some serious leftover wood that the guy upstairs left behind when he moved , along with a few other items . I'm going to use the wood for blocking the frame when I work on my cars , and I'm going to burn the rest when we go camping . I have jack stands , but the lowest setting on those are to high for what I need to do , so these blocks work great ! I would of taken a picture of the wood pile I have stuffed under the now sleeping giant 72 CS , but my soon to be ex has the camara with her at my kids fieldtrip at school .

Allan R

Don't be talking about standing at the cliff. You got way too much good stuff happening with your kids and other life - so stand back from there. The chapter that was is like the rules of Italian road racing. What'sa behind donta matta.....gotta looka foraward rounda da next benda..... I know it's far easier for me to type that without actually knowing what you been through. Just tryin to be supportive and encourage you to look for a silver lining wherever you can, ok?

Nice that you can work on one car and have a backup for when you need it.

oldsguybry

Thanks , brotha

oldsguybry

lol , even the application of the PB Blaster was an event in itself . I popped the lid off to discover the spray nozzle is missing , but after digging around , I took the one off of the WD40 can that actually fit , and then put it back after I was done .

and yesss , finally the 72 gets some much needed rest , while I tend to it's wounds .