Good to see another one get saved!

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341896

 

wow what a score... right place right time and a post car to boot

 

I love that year!

 

OMG.
Someone with sanity.
Nice to see.

Jim

 

Very nice that a Chevy guy would think twice about an Oldsmobile.

 

Good save, but again, the "numbers matching" drivetrain. Kinda hard since there are no VIN derivatives to "match" in 1965.

Yeah, I know the unit numbers are on the P-O-P - there's no mention of the P-O-P in the thread.

 

Yeah, got the Protecto Plate too.....

 

Hey Joe, to these guys I think numbers matching means it has four tires, four wheels and two seats, making it a real 442, lol. The drivetrain is correct if it goes all the way to the rear end and the engine has at least seven spark plugs.

 

Really. I feel the last month with the help of Glenn Brobeck http://442Bro.com
and Jasen Ramsey http://ultra-highcompression.com I feel I know 95% of these cars. Bro's site is exactly what I needed. I can restore anything and I own my own shop. And now I have the info not to embarrass myself. Yeah, I ask some dumb questions over there, but it is all in good conversation.

And I think matching numbers is a partial vin on the engine and trans, date codes off julian date (thanks, Bro), and a dated and properly letter coded differential.

In learning, I found that Olds in 65 did not. Just a one year engine and a tag pop riveted to the side of the tranny.

And I have the protecto plate. As soon as I find a way to remove his name from pics, I will post a picture of it. I have the previous owners number. All I know it what he said. He lost his house (Floridian for foreclosure), and needed to get rid of the car. It was parked at his dads house and his pops was getting fined for the car in the carport. The original owner is still alive but in his 90s.

Andy

 

That was exactly my point. "Numbers Matching" SHOULD mean that you can PROVE that the engine and trans are original to that car. There are only two ways to do this. On 1968-up cars, the engine and trans have a VIN derivative stamp that MATCHES the VIN of the car. On 1967-earlier cars, there is an engine unit number and trans unit number that are matched to the VIN on the Protec-O-Plate. If one doen't have the P-O-P, there's no way to prove it's "numbers matching" (and in fact, it only proves that ONE head is matching). I'm sensitive to this because people thing that just because the car has the correct casting numbers (that were usually used over a period of years) then the car is "numbers matching". I always ask them to show me the numbers that "match".

 

Since it is rare to have the Protect-o-Plate, in most cases all we can do is check the date codes stamped on things like the alternator, and cast into the block. Most of the performance cars had a hard life and drivetrain parts were broken and changed back when no one cared about "numbers matching." Today it is popular to focus on the Barrett Jackson idea of importance, rather than the history of the cars. I'm not saying the numbers don't mean anything, but for me enjoying the car means knowing more about it than that. I don't think the car is worthless or a "clone" just because some parts were changed and the "pedigree" is suspect. I prefer to think that today someone builds the car to enjoy it the way it was intended by the factory, and modifications that were popular and accepted back then are still OK.

Back in the 60s and 70s, it was popular to change wheels and tires, exhaust/headers, camshaft, occasionally the intake and carb. Many kept the car looking close to stock so the cam change could be more popular than the intake change, especially when the stock intake was a performance unit. Engines were easier to work on, whereas today it is can be major undertaking just to do an intake swap. The performance cars were just a good start for many, who refined them to their taste if they wanted to beat the three other perf. cars on the block. Today we see a lot of those cars being restored with careful workmanship but a tractor quality engine rebuild so they don't run well. The cars don't "get any love" and are sold again and again. More time and money spent on the performance aspects would make a big difference.

Since 4-4-2 was in discussion in the referenced site, it originally in 1964 meant four speed, four barrel, dual exhaust. In 1965, it meant 400 cid, 4 barrel, dual exhaust because other trannies were made available, 3 speed stick and 2 speed auto. By 66 the 4-4-2 name was established, even though you could get Tri Carbs, 2,3,or 4 speed trans.

 

No disagreement on any of that. I for one am not a paint-dab-and-chalk-mark kind of guy. My peeve is those sellers who incorrectly claim a car is "numbers matching" (and priced accordingly) with no concept of what that actually means.

 

We are in complete agreement. I am sick and tired of the frequently bogus claims of "numbers matching" as well as sellers looking for more bucks by making false claims about a car's pedigree. A 66 4 barrel is converted, and all of a sudden claimed to be one of the factory 54 W30s. Remember the recent Track Pack conversion at Mecum's that initially was claimed to be a factory built W30? A 71 or 72 with all the correct parts for a "dealer" or "owner" installed 4-4-2 option suddenly becomes a factory-bult car. Or worse/better, only a few of the correct conversion parts are added. Worse in that the car doesn't match what it should be as a 4-4-2, or better in that informed people can detect the fraud more easily.

 

So, both of you, who are "these guys" because clearly you think I am one...

 

You guys do know "Project Grandpa" is the guy from the other site and has joined us to share the cars story and build.

 

Hi! My name is Andy. I own a junkyard saved 65 442 from the son of the original owner.

 

I don't think they do....

And yeah, I am a Chevy guy. And Pontiac guy. And an Oldmobile guy, for now....

 

welcome andy,, i believe you, thousands of other wouldn't

 

My comments were caused by the stumbling over the meaning of 4-4-2 and I was referring to those guys who could find out more about the Olds and come to appreciate it. No insult intended.

 

Nope, I did not. Again, if you have the P-O-P, you can prove the car is "numbers matching". As I've noted before, my complaint is with people who do NOT have that data yet still make the claim.

 

Are you selling the 65

 

I am on the fence on registering it for Barret-Jackson but still not sure.

 

he,he,he,

 

But first I plan on driving up to Madison Wisconsin with a two day stop in north Detroit first the end of next month. I really don't know. Right now it isthe small details like finishing the car and see if it sucks or not. Never had a 65 Olds before but I did daily drive a 64 GTO when I was in high school. That was a 4 speed power nothing car. For those that know me I have a tough time letting any car go that I built. I have a 37k original 76 ElCamino SS that for the right price can be bought. I also have a 68 SS396 Chevelle that I built from the ground up last year that $50k wouldn't take it home. All the Elky needed was weatherstrip and upholstery.