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Old Nov 20, 2021 | 05:51 PM
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2blu442's Avatar
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Question about build date

I was looking at the trim tag on a project car I have. Its a 1965 442 with a build of 7B which I believe is the second week of July. Would that be a very early build date, or a very late build date? The number is 10,240 which leads me to believe its a late date, July 1965. What do you guys think?


Old Nov 20, 2021 | 05:54 PM
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I'm thinking that is the tail end of the production for the model year. I seem to recall reading they shutdown the factories in August for retooling for the subsequent model year.
Old Nov 20, 2021 | 06:24 PM
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I would say its a "late" 1965. They would shutdown for a couple weeks for "model change over", then start cranking out cars for showrooms.
Old Nov 20, 2021 | 06:26 PM
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Thanks guys, I was leaning towards that but appreciate the confirmation. I didn't know when they shut things down.
Old Nov 20, 2021 | 06:26 PM
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Agreed. That's late in the 1965 model year, as corroborated by the high Fisher Body sequence number for a Fremont car.
Old Nov 20, 2021 | 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 2blu442
Thanks guys, I was leaning towards that but appreciate the confirmation. I didn't know when they shut things down.
I think it was approx mid July to labor day.

Nowadays a model year change can be as little as a 20 car gap in the line.
Old Nov 20, 2021 | 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Koda
I think it was approx mid July to labor day.

Nowadays a model year change can be as little as a 20 car gap in the line.
Seriously? That's impressive. Is this due to the limited annual changes these days, or due to modern assembly tooling, automation, and just-in-time assembly lines? How do you "proof test" the changes to the line before starting up - or do you? Manufacturing technologies interest me.

And sorry John for hijacking your thread.
Old Nov 20, 2021 | 06:47 PM
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I got my question answered. If the conversation expands the topic I'm fine with that!
Old Nov 20, 2021 | 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Seriously? That's impressive. Is this due to the limited annual changes these days, or due to modern assembly tooling, automation, and just-in-time assembly lines? How do you "proof test" the changes to the line before starting up - or do you? Manufacturing technologies interest me.

And sorry John for hijacking your thread.
If there isnt much of a change between model years, they can just do a rolling change with no shut down. I remember one year we had a 50 car gap in the line, and as that gap moved thru assembly they had one group of hi-lo drivers removing previous years parts, and another group dropping off the new model year parts.
The year prior was a complete re-tool, and production was off for 8 months while lots of new equipment was installed. Restart is usually a bit of a cluster-f#*k, with a lot of adjustment and trial to get things right. Then its ***** walls, 10hour days, 6 to 7 days a week to get the dealers filled with new model year. Unless you have a Chip shortage

Last edited by 70W-32; Nov 20, 2021 at 08:35 PM.
Old Nov 21, 2021 | 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 70W-32
If there isnt much of a change between model years, they can just do a rolling change with no shut down. I remember one year we had a 50 car gap in the line, and as that gap moved thru assembly they had one group of hi-lo drivers removing previous years parts, and another group dropping off the new model year parts.
The year prior was a complete re-tool, and production was off for 8 months while lots of new equipment was installed. Restart is usually a bit of a cluster-f#*k, with a lot of adjustment and trial to get things right. Then its ***** walls, 10hour days, 6 to 7 days a week to get the dealers filled with new model year. Unless you have a Chip shortage
Yeah, I would guess that the limited model year changes really simplify annual changeover. I was more curious about the impacts of robotics and programmable assembly line technology in reducing that changeover impact.
Old Nov 21, 2021 | 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Yeah, I would guess that the limited model year changes really simplify annual changeover. I was more curious about the impacts of robotics and programmable assembly line technology in reducing that changeover impact.
FYI Computers, robotics and lasers have all contributed. Computers tie everything together and measure large or complex parts.

Robots have to "learn" new work paths when subtle changes are made. When you have banks of robots (such as welding a Ford truck cab) you have to run them individually to "learn the work path". Then you introduce additional robots (one at a time) to see if they crash into each other during the work process.
Lasers can be used to level and align fabrication lines and measure equipment location. They are very accurate over long distances.

While the assembly line changeover can be brief, the stamping, forming, welding and fitment of sub assemblies is where things have to be correct before the assembly line begins changeover. Usually parts are manufactured and stock piled to continue production after primary operations are shut down and retooled. If more (useage specific) parts are manufactured than actually used (due to market conditions) they are used in the early production models of the next year.
......Just my two cents worth from a past career.
Old Nov 21, 2021 | 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by OLDSter Ralph
FYI Computers, robotics and lasers have all contributed. Computers tie everything together and measure large or complex parts.

Robots have to "learn" new work paths when subtle changes are made. When you have banks of robots (such as welding a Ford truck cab) you have to run them individually to "learn the work path". Then you introduce additional robots (one at a time) to see if they crash into each other during the work process.
Lasers can be used to level and align fabrication lines and measure equipment location. They are very accurate over long distances.

While the assembly line changeover can be brief, the stamping, forming, welding and fitment of sub assemblies is where things have to be correct before the assembly line begins changeover. Usually parts are manufactured and stock piled to continue production after primary operations are shut down and retooled. If more (useage specific) parts are manufactured than actually used (due to market conditions) they are used in the early production models of the next year.
......Just my two cents worth from a past career.
We use most of the same technologies in the aerospace world, but for space hardware, building a couple dozen of one thing is "mass production", so there are more than a few orders of magnitude difference in scope.
Old Nov 26, 2021 | 11:38 AM
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Fremont was building 65s into the second week of August 1965.
Old Nov 26, 2021 | 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Seriously? That's impressive. Is this due to the limited annual changes these days, or due to modern assembly tooling, automation, and just-in-time assembly lines? How do you "proof test" the changes to the line before starting up - or do you? Manufacturing technologies interest me.

And sorry John for hijacking your thread.
I missed your reply until now. Since John gave permission for the hijacking...

I'm in Assembly. Weld and Stamping and Plastics have the robots. We typically have 3 or 4 robots in the entire Assembly shop, and they apply the urethane to the fixed glass (front window, and quarter windows / rear windows depending on vehicle). I work in the "Big SUVs and minivan" plant. There are some "cobots" which are ergonomically friendly robots, and we are actually automating the main suspension tightening rigs on Chassis 2 now. But, other than that, no robots.

The way we get away with this is trials, and lowered "percent up." I'm not using the actual terms we use here. We typically have an offline build a year out where a pilot team assembles it and trains people. They do this in a garage. Then, about 9 months out is something that translates to "machine trial." The car is not built, it just goes down the line, and the big conveyors and lifters are checked to it.

6 months out, there's the first real trial. All my stuff has to be in and working by then, not only with the new stuff, but backwards to the old stuff. This sometimes causes double work, because, after we launch, it may be untenable to maintain a compromise once it's no longer necessary. Typically, there's 2 empty carriers, a trial car, an empty, then repeat for however many trial cars, then 2 empties, then back to work. This gives people room to stand and observe, and allows you to blow your cycle time during the trial and not get behind. We normally do about 4 weeks of this first trial for a new car, 2 on day shift, 2 on nights. These cars run, but don't get sold.

Next, 3 months out is the third trial (we used to have a second trial, but that hasn't happened in years). This trial is the same as the first, but less gaps.

2 weeks out we have the last trial. These are sellable cars. Even less gaps, maybe one in front of the slug, and one behind. This segues into the high volume trial, which is we start making the new car, and the launch is when the new car rolls off the sales line. We typically put a 20 pitch gap in there before the new cars to allow people to yank old flowracks and anything that can be easily pulled in 20 min. This also allows conveyance to fully stock with new parts on the flowracks.

The main reason this is successful is we do not expect full performance. Normally, we run in the 90s percentage for uptime. Expected uptime the first day may be 60%. Then, it ramps up.
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