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To badge as a 442 or not... tired of the "442" questions...
So this may be an old debate topic but I'm curious what the in-crowd here thinks with respect to having to deal with non-Olds masses always asking "442", "does it have a 442 engine"... etc.
My ragtop is a 72 CS 350 4bbl with added dual exhaust, upgraded suspension (i.e. front/rear sway bars, etc) and the optional louvered hood (original was the standard flat hood). It does not have the rear bumper cutouts w/trumpet exhaust (which the masses never seem to notice anyway)...
I've always subscribed to building what I want and calling it what it is - i.e. a Cutlass is a Cutlass) idea being that while I'm appreciative of the positive attention it receives, I have diminishing patience to repeatedly explain what it is (or isn't) to the passing masses. It seems however, I spend more time explaining what it is than I probably would if I just badged it as a 442 - then the encounters might be more be limited to "great ride" or similar commentary...
Knowing '72s were not vin-coded for 442 models, I certainly wouldn't pass it off as a real one to the Olds crowd nor to anyone I might eventually sell it to (if that were to ever happen...), but it makes me nuts to continually repeat, "nope, just a regular Cutlass, nope, not a block (yet, anyway), blah blah...
Is this just a cost of the hobby in general or am not alone in my thoughts...?
Its your car to do with what you want. However the questions will not end, your still going to have to explain not only that its a Cutlass, but now a 442 clone'ish.
So this may be an old debate topic but I'm curious what the in-crowd here thinks with respect to having to deal with non-Olds masses always asking "442", "does it have a 442 engine"... etc.
My ragtop is a 72 CS 350 4bbl with added dual exhaust, upgraded suspension (i.e. front/rear sway bars, etc) and the optional louvered hood (original was the standard flat hood). It does not have the rear bumper cutouts w/trumpet exhaust (which the masses never seem to notice anyway)...
I've always subscribed to building what I want and calling it what it is - i.e. a Cutlass is a Cutlass) idea being that while I'm appreciative of the positive attention it receives, I have diminishing patience to repeatedly explain what it is (or isn't) to the passing masses. It seems however, I spend more time explaining what it is than I probably would if I just badged it as a 442 - then the encounters might be more be limited to "great ride" or similar commentary...
Knowing '72s were not vin-coded for 442 models, I certainly wouldn't pass it off as a real one to the Olds crowd nor to anyone I might eventually sell it to (if that were to ever happen...), but it makes me nuts to continually repeat, "nope, just a regular Cutlass, nope, not a block (yet, anyway), blah blah...
Is this just a cost of the hobby in general or am not alone in my thoughts...?
As the owner of a cloned 442, I concur with Eric’s response. There will still be questions but they will be different. You nailed my favorite one, “Does it have a 442 in it “ ? This is the price we pay for not driving a Ford Fusion.
Its your car to do with what you want. However the questions will not end...
Whatever flavor you have of Olds, you get misinformed questions--Olds are a bit out of the mainstream for most people. And the questions are different depending on the model.
I get the "Nice Chevelle" comments. I love the one about "My double ex-brother-in-law had one exactly like that." And it turns out that he had a blue Country Squire.
If someone recognizes its an Olds, I do get the 442-engine question. I tell them "It's a Hemi."
I realize that they all mean well and I use the comments, weird and otherwise, to have a little conversation.
I don't mind when people call my car a 442,I just respond with...nope,it's a proud Cutlass S. It's much better then the comments I get of,nice chevelle. I had one guy at a show I stood and listened to for about 5 minutes,telling me how he had a car just like mine and talking about the different features of my car...then he says,man I miss that chevelle. I then excused myself,our conversation was over.
When I first bought this car,my intentions were to build a cloned stock W-30,I gathered many parts for it,since then I changed direction and my car will stay a proud Cutlass S. Modified and will out perform any stock W-30.
I would not put 442 emblems on a Cutlass
I also would not put w30 emblems or stripes on a 442 that did not come from the factory as such
There are way 2 many "clones" fakes out there already
I spend more time explaining what it is than I probably would if I just badged it as a 442 - then the encounters might be more be limited to "great ride" or similar commentary...
I would just reply "yes" to them and move on. Also, you might want to get one of these...
I found out just how much of a car guy I *wasn't* when I bought my Starfire in '98 (I was 27 then). The previous owner had a barn full of fully restored beauties, and as he showed me his F85 'vert, I distinctly remember saying, "F85? I've never heard of that model before!" 20 years later, I still don't know all that much, but honestly, if you're tired of people showing interest in your car by having a polite conversation, then maybe you shouldn't go to shows and hang out by your car. Just walk around and look at others.
As far as the 442 badging... my opinion is don't do it. It's entirely possible that some of the cars wind up getting misrepresented for sale later on because of an unexpected death. Family sells the vehicle out of the estate, and the new buyer / broker ends up with something that they don't realize is a clone.
LIke others have observed, changing the badging will just change the questions. The easiest "fix" is to decide if you feel like engaging in conversation with the person and respond accordingly..."Is it a 442?" "...yeah, more or less...".
If you put the 442 badging on it you'll get the people saying "Hey, isn't that the wrong grill for the car?" , "Hey, I thought this was supposed to be a 4 speed..." and on it goes.
My '71 Cutlass S is staying a Cutlass S and essentially equipped as delivered. My '70 Cutlass S was acquired debadged except for incorrectly installed 442 numbers on the front...I'm building that car with the stuff I like, which means it will look more 442 than not. I'll probably fix the number alignment but won't be adding any more badging, and if anyone asks my reply is "Nah, just a tribute car."
I will go on the opposite view here... If you prefer the look with the 442 badges and trim, then do it. Its your car to do with what you want, don't worry about what some other guy thinks about it.
I cloned my 66 into a 442/tribute whatever you wish to call it.
I preferred the look of the 442 specific grill, tailgate trim, side vents, etc.
I would have LOVED to own a real 66 442, but the $$$ simply did not make that possible- so I made my own and enjoyed the hell out of it.
I'm more irritated by the "Does that have the rocket motor in it?" questions.
Originally Posted by VC455
I get the "Nice Chevelle" comments. I love the one about "My double ex-brother-in-law had one exactly like that." And it turns out that he had a blue Country Squire.
Had a kid ask me if my '67 was a Cadillac once. Maybe I should've said "yes" just to impress him.
The kid at the Wal-Mart tire center where I got tires put on my '72 asked me "Aren't there a bunch of cars that are like this?" After getting him to rephrase it three times or so, I finally guessed he was talking about GM A-bodies.
I finally guessed he was talking about GM A-bodies.
You may be giving him too much credit. I suspect he was referring to RWD American cars from the 1960s. If you believe the ebay ads, every one of them is a "musclecar".
I found out just how much of a car guy I *wasn't* when I bought my Starfire in '98 (I was 27 then). The previous owner had a barn full of fully restored beauties, and as he showed me his F85 'vert, I distinctly remember saying, "F85? I've never heard of that model before!" 20 years later, I still don't know all that much, but honestly, if you're tired of people showing interest in your car by having a polite conversation, then maybe you shouldn't go to shows and hang out by your car. Just walk around and look at others.
As far as the 442 badging... my opinion is don't do it. It's entirely possible that some of the cars wind up getting misrepresented for sale later on because of an unexpected death. Family sells the vehicle out of the estate, and the new buyer / broker ends up with something that they don't realize is a clone.
This seems to me like the best piece of advice. I know that some days I can be cranky and impatient. Another idea would be to have a sign printed to explain what the car and engine are ?
OR you could ask them what they drive and when they tell you, you reply......... "Oh, a SUBARU !"
There was never a 64 F-85 425, so I made my own ( GTO
killer) as with my 67 442-resto-mod that I sold a few years ago after 13 years. When I sold the 67 I fully disclosed what the build was and was not a "real 442". These days resto mods are bringing more $$$ at the block than originals. My 2cents.
I have some that ask me if it has the Rocket Engine and Hurst Olds Shifter. I jus' say I dunno... that's what it said on the breather and shifter, but I only payed $600.00 bucks for er' so I doubt it. .
Their mouths just drop, then say, dam I had one just like it, do you wanna sell it? I reply, I dunno... I will have to check with my wife, the last time she said NO, so I still get to drive it .
As for the badges,
I'm with some of the others on this deal. If you like the 442 number look and want to add them, than go for it. Make it the way you want it . To most of the population, its just a cool looking car with numbers on it.
The 72 as well as 64-7 had the 4-4-2 package as an option, not a model, not with unique VIN series. If you add the option correctly, is it a clone? If you add P01 wheel covers, is it a clone? If you add a radio or power steering, is it a clone? Or, is it a dealer/owner added option? Certainly, in 1966 the Olds engineers did not care. All of the W30s at the NHRA Nationals Labor Day weekend were "conversions" rather than any of the factory built 54 cars. You could buy any or all of the 66-67 conversion parts from GMPD.with factory directions for installation. Some will say that some options were more "important" than others, but the factory did not care. Today it matters much more to me whether the option is added correctly, whether it is power steering or W30 parts. I would not say the result was factory built that way if it was not, but that is a different issue. If one of the dummies asks "is it real?" just say "no, it is a hologram."
Hello,
I am new to joining any forum. I am from the Ford world owning a rare 68 Mustang. I like all cars, but know Fords more since this was my high school car. Now I own a Cutlass on a deal I couldnt pass up and now learning all about them as I knew nothing.
As for people wanting to make their cars a clone, go ahead. Or come with your own creative name and make you own creation. It is your car and do what you want. It is your canvas to paint. As long you are not trying to sell it as something it is not, that is fraud.
Now I am new and dont know the people here and hope I can get a lot of good info and help here on my project. But, it seems it doesnt matter what car world your in, there are always whiners and complainers pointing thier fingers. This gets old, but yet this seems to be the most popular thread on this forum right now. From my experiences, all the whining and finger pointing usually come from the people who have the deeper pockets, read all the books, only drive/trailer to shows and yet does not know how to hold a wrench. There are too many of these people with their noses high in the air and looking down on others. To me this it not what the car culture is all about. It is getting your hands dirty, helping people out, talking shop, have fun and just enjoying driving.
Don't expect me to respond to any comments to my opinion. I have already read most of everyone's opinions and no need to get into aguments.
Sorry,
Didnt look at the dates. It is sitting at the top of thread listings.
Thanks
I thought I was on correct thread. Some how I migrated to this thread.
Last edited by Bradley Dougherty; May 25th, 2020 at 05:21 PM.
January 2nd, 2019, 09:40 AM
