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We should not be insisting on paypal "friends and family"

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We should not be insisting on paypal "friends and family"

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Old May 17th, 2018, 05:27 PM
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We should not be insisting on paypal "friends and family"

Big community here, and some of us know each other better than others. There are some who have earned my trust and I would gladly do the send money to friends and family when buying something from them, even though that is in violation of paypal's TOS and does not give you purchase protection.


However, unless you have that relationship pre-established, it is inappropriate (and incorrect) to insist upon the buyer taking both of those risks so you save 3%. The idea behind paypal is you are paying them a fee for the convenience of selling something to someone who may not buy it because he doesn't feel down with cutting a check or sending a MO. If you don't want to do the fees, don't take paypal.



For what it's worth, I do not do friends and family when buying something except for a select few, however, I do pay the fees as a favor to the seller on here, so I get a say by that expenditure. I try to be a man of integrity and not cheat a system, but I can understand someone thinking the fees are too high, except it's not cool to make the buyer complicit in the deception unless you have that pre-established relationship.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 06:21 PM
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When someone I donít know insists on Friends and Family I immediately think they are trying to sell something to me with no purchase protection. I have people who I do business with all the time that send me Friends and Family without me even asking.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 07:07 PM
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gotta tell ya..i refuse to use the family & friend thing period..got burned 3 times on other sites..no money orders either..its 2018..im not using 1990 procedures..i always pay the PP fees..its good insurance..just my opinion..but if they refuse paypal..i refuse to buy and have felt that way for some time.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 09:11 PM
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I use PP a LOT, and try to use F&F to save a few bucks. I do understand when a buyer wants to use 'goods or service' to afford themselves the protection, and they pay the fee. But, it is not a violation to use F&F to make a purchase from someone. Why do you think it is there? Do you think the folks at PP are that naive?
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Old May 17th, 2018, 10:14 PM
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Paypal is a business and the fees are part of it. I try to pay the fee for the seller as a way to let PayPal make a buck for the convenience they provide me. I bet if they noticed the friends and family option was being abused in their opinion they could make changes but who knows.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 11:48 PM
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Send a M/O and gets lost it takes weeks to get money back. I like Paypal.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 06:24 AM
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I won't do F&F, nope.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyS View Post
I use PP a LOT, and try to use F&F to save a few bucks. I do understand when a buyer wants to use 'goods or service' to afford themselves the protection, and they pay the fee. But, it is not a violation to use F&F to make a purchase from someone. Why do you think it is there? Do you think the folks at PP are that naive?
I think the option of "send money to friends and family" is there to send money to friends and family. I am not a lawyer, I'm an engineer, and, when the instructions say "if you use this option when purchasing something you will get no protection if he does not send the item" that's a pretty good indication of what is supposed to be done and not be done. I don't think they are naive at all; saying that you will get no purchase protection is a very good deterrent.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 08:17 AM
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The fee is just the cost of doing business, whether you're selling as a living or just a hobbyist downsizing the parts hoard. It's not hard to factor the fee into your agreed sale price, then it isn't an issue.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 12:02 PM
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This issue is number 500 on the list of the top 50 things I worry about when I go to bed each night.

Paypal is a big boy and can take care of itself. I'm sure they don't care in the slightest if I use "Friends and Family" or if I use the business payment method. If I want the purchase protection, I use the latter. Otherwise, I use the former. Of course Paypal WANTS you to use the right one, but if they really cared, they wouldn't make it so easy to choose the "wrong" one.

Either way, they're making money. Just like Google and Facebook make money even though I don't pay for any of their services that I use because some people DO pay for one or more of their services and because they can sell advertising. Paypal makes money because they hold your money for a while no matter how you choose to pay and because some people do use the business purchase option. And they make money through many other services they offer.

Now I'm going to bed and planning to sleep peacefully even though I just now paid for an item using the Friends and Family option.

Last edited by jaunty75; May 18th, 2018 at 12:04 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 12:34 PM
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It all boils down to personal preference of the buyer and/or seller. If you don't want to... don't. If the seller is not flexible... then look elsewhere. I don't see this as an end of life as we know it issue.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 01:06 PM
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Here's some more questions I've always had.

1. Has anyone ever tried to collect on the paypal purchase protection? It sounds good on paper, but how many hoops do you have to jump through? How long does it take? Anyone ever have a claim denied?

2. I liken this to the post office's "insurance." Has anyone ever actually collected on post office insurance? They're so anxious and happy to sell it all the time because it must be a huge moneymaker for them because they probably rarely, except for when a package is outright lost, which has to be very rare, ever pay out.

The post office controls every aspect of the process. In the case of damage, which is probably the most likely reason for a claim, they have to inspect the packaging, and they get to decide if the packaging was good. If it wasn't, claim denied, game over.

Then it comes to establishing value. Unless it was a new item from an established vendor, who probably would just replace the item and not make you file a claim, anyway, showing a purchase receipt should be enough. But what about the old, used, often rare parts people on here would most likely be buying and buying from a private seller, not an established business? How do you establish value? I don't think the PO would accept a simple "this is what I paid for it" comment as that leaves them open to fraud. I doubt they would accept a receipt from the seller. The seller could write anything you or he wants on it. Even if the receipt is an accurate reflection of what you paid, that doesn't mean that you paid is what the market says the part is worth. You would need to show what comparable parts have sold for on, say, ebay. But how do you do that for a part that maybe there's only one or two of? Again, the claim would likely be denied without a convincing, impartial source of value.

Last edited by jaunty75; May 18th, 2018 at 01:12 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 01:14 PM
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Actually there are tons of stories where Paypal refunded monies to the buyer by extracting it from the sellers account. Paypal errs on the buyers side and the seller has to jump through hoops to get the situation rectified. Its the biggest buyer scam on Ebay.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 01:16 PM
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I've heard that, but isn't that mostly ebay purchases? What about for purchases made with paypal but outside of ebay?
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Old May 18th, 2018, 01:28 PM
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I would assume... that it applies to all types of purchases.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
I would assume... that it applies to all types of purchases.
But only purchases made with the Purchase Protection, not with the Friends and Family. Which means that the seller has at least two incentives now (no fee withheld and no chance the buyer will try to file a claim to get his money back) to insist on Friends and Family payment.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 02:16 PM
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Exactly...
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Old May 18th, 2018, 03:30 PM
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My $.02 or lack of... I don't use PP anymore, had issues that I was not content with... Whether 1920 or 2020, I'm old school and prefer USPS money orders only... I receive the money order, go to the post office, cash it and ship the package at the same time... Never had an issue, and don't foresee one any time soon... In the past two years, I received over $2000 in money order payments (including international money orders) and never an issue... I don't plan to change/fix what's not broke... I do understand the concerns some people have with money orders in general and that is one reason I prefer Only USPS Money Orders... The Post Office, for the most part can determine a counterfeit money order immediately... No cash no ship... JMO...
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Old May 18th, 2018, 06:40 PM
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I don't ask people to use F&F when they buy stuff from me but if they do, I'm ok with it. I sell a ton of stuff & I'd guess 95% is through paypal. Some people pay for goods & services & pay a little extra to cover the fees. If they don't & the fees come out of my part I'm ok with that also because as has been stated pp does provide a valuable service for sure.
Last June I sold a guy some rear window ledges, he installed them on his car & had all the other body work done & the car painted then 6 months after the sale he filed a claim with paypal for the full amount ($400ish) because some of the studs for the rear window trim were not on the pieces I shipped to him. I had to fight that for a while, explaining to paypal that if he had a problem with the pieces I sold him he should have noticed that when I shipped them to him, before he permanently attached them to his car, before priming the car, & before painting the car. I sent pictures before the purchase & explained that they were 40 year old parts. Thankfully paypal agreed with me & released the $$ after about 3 weeks.

Many years ago I shipped a 4 speed console that got destroyed during shipment through the post office. I did insure that & they did pay the claim after a week or two.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 06:56 PM
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I think the solution is fairly easy. Simply send the funds through PayPal adding 3% to the total. You will retain the protection without making the seller eat the fees. Or simply opt to purchase from a different seller.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 06:56 PM
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postal money orders are great..if you want to wait weeks for one to arrive...pray they arent counterfeit (ive received 2 in the last 4 years)....(O in the previous 20), or get one and the morons at the post office believe it is counterfeit, and refuse to cash it..so yes..ive had a run around with money orders...i'm not interested in them..at all..im not even capable of really getting one, i work a lot of hours, and its an ordeal to even get one when you travel as much as i do

lose one..you'll never use them again 3 months to get your money back..if it goes well...tell a customer you sent one and its lost, and they think youre a liar..so..m/o's are just not going to work for me..plus..if you send one and they skip on ya... they dont really have priority for the postal inspector to find and prosecute, unless you do all the work..so..no more for me...unless ive done a lot of business with a guy...

ive had paypal since its release ..in 1998....and never , not once had an issue or a problem..and i do a lot of business with them..TONS....so i stick with what works for me...

heck...right here on this site, ive had people refuse paypal, and i just say sorry and move on...

Last edited by marxjunk; May 18th, 2018 at 07:03 PM.
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Old May 19th, 2018, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Funkwagon455 View Post
I think the solution is fairly easy. Simply send the funds through PayPal adding 3% to the total. You will retain the protection without making the seller eat the fees. Or simply opt to purchase from a different seller.

I do that (the +3%)
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Old May 20th, 2018, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
Actually there are tons of stories where Paypal refunded monies to the buyer by extracting it from the sellers account. Paypal errs on the buyers side and the seller has to jump through hoops to get the situation rectified. Its the biggest buyer scam on Ebay.
Have you ever tried to get a refund from Pay pal. I have and it did't happen. The seller had no contact with me. No return phone call, no return email and no goods. Multiple emails and calls. The only reply I received was from a survey company, a lot of good a bad review did. Pay pal told me I had to wait 31 days to go to dispute. I spoke to pay pal several times and even to a supervisor. ''This is the policy" is what I was told. If I have to wait 31 days for goods to arrive, what do I tell my customer? Low and behold the parts showed up on the 29 day mark. All these companies are full of...

As for this site, I've purchased from many people. When it's within 3 hours 1 way I'd rather make the deal in person. But I've purchased from many on this site and aside from paying way to much a few times, I don't recall ever getting burned. I'd trust this site way more than any other site including inflated E-bay which I don't even bother to look at.
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Old May 21st, 2018, 04:03 PM
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When someone buys from me, I give them the option of sending either way, if using the goods or services, I ask that they add 3% to cover the paypal fee. It's a pretty simple solution. On larger purchases, I'll split the fee.
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Old June 27th, 2018, 09:13 AM
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I only do f/f, or you pay fees, it's for you not me. Im fine w/ a check or money order, when it clears in a week or so, I'll send out your parts/toppers.
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Old June 27th, 2018, 06:42 PM
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I have done about all the above. I have asked for it to be F&F before but always offer them to pay with check or money order. In a years time those fees add up. For a while I was adding $2 to $5 to my shipping cost to cover it but people were complaining about shipping prices going up so I quit doing that. I rarely use eBay if I have a market away from there. With the list fee, selling fee, Pay Pal fee, and shipping fee and all the protection for the buyer even if they lie, it is just not worth it. I pay people both ways. If I know the person it is always F&F. If I don't I will add money to cover the fee.
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