I'm looking at a car with no title. The car was purchased 20 years ago in Maryland and the current owner could never obtain clear title because of the mechanics lien. Is there any possibility of titling this car 20 years later? I would be registering it in NY which is a title state for the year vehicle I'm looking at.


The car is currently priced slightly lower than a comparable car without title issues but not so much that it would be worth it for me to take the chance because it's still not worth it's cost in parts.

 

Find out who the lien holder is an pay them or part the car out. If the asking price of the car 'as-is' is more than the parts value, I would not buy the car.

 

The shop that had a lien on it is long closed.


I'm sure every state is different. I guess I'm specifically interested in anyone that may have gone through this in Maryland

 

Instead of the hit-or-miss process of asking around on this site, why not just go to the source? This is what the internet and Google are for.


From the Maryland Department of Motor Vehicles website:


Titling - Vehicle with a Mechanic's Lien

http://www.mva.maryland.gov/About-MV..._Mechanic_Lien

 

Or you can bank on the disorganization of the system, plead ignorance if caught, but figure that NY could not find a dead loan from 20 years ago in another state.

 

So I called Maryland DMV


What would be the chances that I would be on the phone with the same person at DMV at the same time as the owner would be.........


The nice woman at DMV told me that the current owner or the towing company that brought it to him apparently took the car for non payment but never completed the paperwork for the mechanics lien.


In my book I'm guessing that it means the car is stolen


This is the car:


http://binghamton.craigslist.org/cto/5511817437.html


Buyer beware

 

A lot of trouble for a rusty smog era H/O, that has no title.

A few rare parts and $500 worth of metal.

 

parts car only. stolen??? run the vin and see.

 

A few questions come to mind.

1. If the paperwork for the mechanic's lien was never completed, is there actually a mechanic's lien on the car? My guess is no.

2. Is it the mechanic who is trying to sell the car? He says he took the car for non-payment, so the current "owner" is actually the mechanic who hasn't placed the lien on it? Is this mechanic the guy who placed the ad?

3. If he took the car for non-payment, apparently 20 years ago, did he actually complete the transfer of ownership? Or did the owner 20 years ago simply drive it onto his lot, hand him the keys, and walk away, and the mechanic just left it for 20 years?

4. If there actually IS a mechanic's lien on the car, does whoever is trying to sell it, whether it's the mechanic or someone else, actually have the legal right to sell the car?


From what you've said, it sounds like the mechanic who could have placed the lien but never did actually has the car and could probably go through whatever necessary paperwork there is to properly title it in his name since the original owner turned it over to him in lieu of payment for repairs done. Then he could simply sell it to you or whoever.

 

+1: What the heck is actually going on?

I am completely baffled a this point, starting with the fact that both the car and the OP are in NY, but the OP is talking about Maryland.

Also, it all seems silly, as this car is obviously worth next to nothing, as it is a total rat, with few or no parts worth removing and little inherent collectibility.

- Eric

 

Good point. The way I'm reading it is that, since the car was originally sold in Maryland and never retitled by anyone, the original title, if there is one, is a Maryland title.

However, I would say you are correct. Since the idea now is to title the car in New York State, it would seem that the New York DMV, not the Maryland DMV, is the place to go with questions about how to title a car with a mechanic's lien, assuming there is one on the car.

 

I have dealt with many title issues in the state of NY... Vehicles requiring salvage inspections before titles will be issued, as well as vehicles that the state has ruled certain vin's can never be re titled in the state and only sold for parts... If you can not obtain the latest title from which the vehicle was last titled and/or a signed bill of sale from the previous owners, you are most likely buying a parts vehicle... JMO and past experience in the state...

 

But doesn't even a parts car have to have a title, if it's going to be sold legally?

I suppose that, practically speaking, this may not matter if all the buyer wants it for is parts. He hands the seller cash, hauls the car away, and dismantles it as soon as possible. Poof, the car is gone, and since any paperwork on it and interest in it is 20 years old, no one is likely to ever catch on, as Koda says.

But, as I say, if you want to be legal about it, isn't a title transfer required?

 

Legally he can't do anything with the car.


He told me the lien was done through the Maryland towing company but it was never completed because the owner has to sign something and "he was long gone"


The current person "possessing" the car (I wouldn't really call him the owner) says that they attempted to locate the original owner but gave up 15 years ago. The woman at the DMV told me the "possessor" told her he had a restoration business back then so it's not like he bought this car as an unsuspecting buyer and got stuck with it.


The current "possessor" talked to an HO (club?) member and they told him the car was worth $5-6k in parts so at $3500 he's not even selling this for anywhere near what it's worth even as a parts car.


The current "possessor" told me that Maryland DMV will only issue a title to the last titled owner and mail it to the address on the title.


I asked the guy for the VIN number and didn't get it. Unless you can run it and make sure it wasn't stolen you'll never have any hope of ever getting this legally on the road.


This car is going to sit for another 20 years

 

I agree with everything you're saying but now that this car is out there as "questionable" he's going to have a tough time selling it. It's one thing to sell a cars for parts that you know isn't stolen but I don't get a warm and fuzzy that this car is clean.

 

I'm not sure if the seller was originally from Maryland or he bought it and had it brought back to NY. Either way he never got clear title to it.

 

If the car was stolen 20 years ago, the statute of limitations has long expired, and no one could be prosecuted for it now. It seems pointless for the DMV to be concerned about this.

 

Hmmm. Can both of these statements be true at the same time?

Because no one asked, according to the Old Cars Price Guide, a 1983 Hurst/Olds parts car is worth $800.

 

Just because nobody can go to jail does not mean that the stolen property is up for grabs.
If the car was insured, then the recovered vehicle now belongs to the insurance company.
If not, it belongs to the original owner.

I have seen at least one news story recently about a car stolen forty years ago being returned to its original owner after being found.



Thank you.

... And I'm skeptical of even that.

- Eric

 

Yes, you are right.

 

The current possessor of the vehicle needs to get a mechanic's lien issued by MD, THEN the car be sold per the process Jaunty linked to. Every state has a process for a lien sale. Unfortunately if the current possessor won't get the actual mechanic's lien, there's nothing you can do about it.

 

But let me ask a few questions here.

WHO can put a mechanic's lien on a car? I presume the mechanic or his authorized representative. What we've been told is that the "mechanic" in this case was a now long-out-of-business towing company who, I would guess, never got paid for the tow.

If the towing company isn't around to impose the lien, then who can do it, and is it even necessary?

We're told that the paperwork for the lien was never completed, so there IS NO lien on the car as well as no one around from back in the day to apply for one.

So the bottom line here is that the whole issue of a mechanic's lien is MOOT. It's irrelevant.

So where does that leave the seller? He has a car with no title, period. He has no paperwork to show that he can legally sell the car. What is the procedure for getting a title for such a car? It seems to me that THIS is the question, not how to get a lien slapped onto the car.

If the owner of the car back 20 years ago who gave the car to whomever in lieu of payment cannot be found or is dead, is there a procedure to obtain a title on what is apparently now an abandoned car?

 

You will note that I said "possessor" and not "owner".

In any case, in most states there is a storage lien sale process. I did this back in Calif when someone left a car on my property and then vanished. The process was documented and required publishing a lien sale notice in the paper, along with sending registered letters to the last known address. Eventually I got a title and was able to sell the car.

The current possessor needs to follow the same process. If the car has been abandoned on his property, there is a process for conducting a lien sale and acquiring a title. This is the same thing that storage facilities do with unclaimed vehicles.

 

Interesting. Did you have a "last known address" for an abandoned car? Was the license plate or something else that points to the owner still on or in the car? What if there is no last known address? Is simply publishing the notice enough?

 

I am no less baffled than I was before.

- Eric

 

The "possessor" was told by Maryland DMV that the car could not be registered without getting a title through the current owner (and the DMV woman told me the same thing).

I'm guessing that it's impossible to navigate the paperwork required unless you're a title company that does this for a living. I'm assuming this usually involves a title search to make sure it isn't stolen and then a registration in a state with lax title requirements.

I know in NY without a title (after 73), and a DTF802 signed by the owner, you will never register it in this state. You could have a million dollar Ferrari left to you and you'd still be screwed

Interestingly enough in NY pre-73 you can register a car with no title. All you need is a sellers signature on a DTF802, pay the applicable sales tax, and it's registered.

 

I sell a lot of G-Body parts NOS & Used... I haven't seen the vehicle, but from the description and length of time it's been sitting, especially if outside, I don't see even $3500 in parts no less then the $5/6K he was told it was worth... Biggest ticket items on the vehicle are the Shifter, Spoiler, Ground Effects, Hurst Badges, Hood Scoop, and maybe a few other items... I see maybe $2K, $2500 if sheet metal is good...

 

Man what a mess. What about a storage lien?

 

and the rear end

 

I was told 84 rears were worth all the money and the 83's were crap (Thanks Luke )

 

It's sad that a rare vinyl interior car will go to waste... but this is definitely a convoluted mess. Delusional seller...

 

Yes, I had a last known address and the returned certified letter along with the proof of newspaper ad were all I needed. Of course, that was in CA and every state is different.

 

Because the 84 was the first year with the 8.5" axle.

 

X2

Eric don't feel pregnant about it.

 

In Ohio it is in violation of state BMV laws to either buy or sell a car without a title! ... just sayin...... And now we even have a fairly new BMV law that prohibits scrap dealers from taking a body shell without a title with the correct VIN. Not to say that you cant find one that will "turn their head" and take it!!

 

This is true in most states. Simply cutting the shell up and taking the pieces to a scrap metal dealer solves that problem.

 

In Indiana, all you had to do is cut roof off, and they called it a pile of scrap! Now you need a title to scrap, and they take your picture, with the tow vehicles plate in background. No more cutting it up.

 

If the seller (I love semantics) wants the most money for it, he should part it out and scrap the rest.

From what I gather about the lein deal, either the seller or the buyer would obtain the lein, first. Then, they're gambling on the Public Notice going unnoticed allowing them to apply for a clean title. A friend did this with some land and "won" 14 acres on a Public Notice quick claim.

 

What happens if you just bring in a fender?

 

From what I know, you just can't bring in all the parts at once. Indiana has some stupid rules . I cut one up, including the frame, and took it in on three different trips, a few weeks apart. Then I was told of a place close by in Ohio, that takes whole cars , without title, there is where people go to junk cars, here in this town.