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Notice the well-placed use of the word "equipped" ...
Lot #400 - Equipped with W-31, Ram Air cold-air induction, this matching-numbers car has 50,000 original miles. It has undergone a complete nut-and-bolt restoration and is immaculate inside and out. It has an arrow-straight body with amazing paint in its original color with matching green interior. This very fine W-31 Oldsmobile runs and drives like new. It's been serviced and detailed.
Looks like a real nice pretty post car with OAI. No Reserve = will sell for what the available buyers will pay at this time. Fair enough.
So, F85's did not get the wheel arch trims... hmmmm... kind of needs dog dish wheels to complete the sleeper thing. So, Jetaway switch pitch in the F85?
"It has undergone a complete nut-and-bolt restoration"
Maybe they should have extended their efforts beyond just the nuts and bolts. Or at least ALL of the nuts and bolts [RH hood hinge to fender, fwd bolt for example]. To, say, the wiper motor, steering column, and all the underside stuff not shown. Assuming that "not shown" = "you don't want to see that part."
Painted rocker covers and carefully no-detail-shown intake tells me this was a 2-bbl car for which they got "an" intake [4-bbl] in order to add the OAI. Then craft the wording of the ad cleverly to not quite state that it is a factory issue W31. Maybe somewhat less than 100% forthcoming. Kind of like saying "you can believe that this is a factory issue W31 muscle car!" Sure, "you can" believe that.... it would be wrong, but folks believe incorrect stuff to be true all the time! You can trust me on this- it might not be wise, but "you can."
Last edited by Octania; January 24th, 2016 at 09:02 AM.
Notice the well-placed use of the word "equipped" ...
Lot #400 - Equipped with W-31, Ram Air cold-air induction, this matching-numbers car has 50,000 original miles. It has undergone a complete nut-and-bolt restoration and is immaculate inside and out. It has an arrow-straight body with amazing paint in its original color with matching green interior. This very fine W-31 Oldsmobile runs and drives like new. It's been serviced and detailed.
Apparently their lawyers have gotten wind of the bogosity of the car, as wording has been changed in the ad:
Originally Posted by Barrett Jackson
Lot #400 - Equipped with an upgraded W-31, Ram Air cold-air induction, ...
Nope. Last switch-pitch was offered in the 1967 model year, and if you look at the page from the SPECS booklet I posted, RPO W31 is only available with M14, M20, M21, or M38 (TH350) transmissions. I'm guessing the automatic option was a mid-year addition once the TH350 came on line. Of course, this is the W31-only JO-code TH350 (or SHOULD be... ).
Joe, I think you took my statement a little too literally. No doubt an option, but as you stated yourself W machines were low optioned for racing.
Even that we know this rig is not a W-machine. Most F-85's were loss leaders at the dealers back in the day. And a good majority had dog dish or hub caps. Again, not saying every vehicle was equipped that way!
Joe, I think you took my statement a little too literally. No doubt an option, but as you stated yourself W machines were low optioned for racing.
Even that we know this rig is not a W-machine. Most F-85's were loss leaders at the dealers back in the day. And a good majority had dog dish or hub caps. Again, not saying every vehicle was equipped that way!
Pat
Pat,
I don't disagree with you, but the SSI's, while likely added during the resto, were factory available on an F-85. A W-31 built in Canada was NOT factory-available, however.
My 70 F-85 W-31 came with SSI wheels from the factory. The SSI's on this one look to be 15" so these are incorrect even if it originally came with SSI wheels. I wonder if it has the balancer?
That AACA decal bugs me, since AACA folks generally try to correctly restore cars.
Call it what it is- tribute, clone, whatever- just don't try to pass it off as real in hopes of making mega$$ off it. The hi-profile auctions have contributed greatly to the number of bogus cars.
In a perfect world we would have paperwork from GM/Olds to prove what every car is and how it was equipped by the factory.
BJ as any auction has to rely on the representations of the Seller/Consignor.
BJ specifically goes out of its way to hire and utilize "experts" in order to help sort out the respective cars.
For Example:
Jerry McNeish-Camaros
Jim Mattison-Pontiacs
Roy Sinor-Corvettes
Etc Etc........
Other auctions will seek out the opinions and advise of experts, prior to accepting a consignment. No question they can't catch all the issues and that is the reason if you choose to step into that arena, that you need to be prepared.
In a perfect world we would have paperwork from GM/Olds to prove what every car is and how it was equipped by the factory.
Ironically, this is a Canadian-built car, so you CAN get paperwork for it. That paperwork will prove the car was not built as a W-31.
Of course, when the auction company starts editing their listings using nebulous and evasive terminology, they are really pegging the B.S. meter, in addition to proving that they know the car is bogus.
If it was,which it isnt a W31,it wouldnt have the F85/Supreme Hood .That seams to be the #1 mistake when they build an F85 W31 clone.
Greg
GOOD catch! I was too focused on the VIN and missed that completely. Considering that the W-31 package included the W42 wide paint stripes on the "double hump" hood, it would be hard to put those on the flat hood.
I think they are trying to say that its an F85 with a W31 OAI added...
That's exactly what it says, but in a way that IMPLIES that the car is a W-31 while not overtly SAYING that in a way that makes them legally liable for fraud.
The reason posted pictures of the Rally Green F85 special order paint W-31 is that there has been much conversation about flat hoods and this particular car. The current owner has pics dating to 1973 showing the flat hood on the car.
The reason posted pictures of the Rally Green F85 special order paint W-31 is that there has been much conversation about flat hoods and this particular car. The current owner has pics dating to 1973 showing the flat hood on the car.
So what? That still leaves four years where the original hood could have been damaged and replaced. Show me a photo of it coming off the assembly line or at the dealership in 1969 THEN we can talk.
I'll add that in 1974 I saw a 1969 Cutlass with a 1968 front end. That doesn't prove they were made that way either. Crash repairs with equivalent but not exact replacement parts were not uncommon when these cars were new. The body shop would grab what was available at the local wrecking yard.
When my red car was left abandoned in a towing yard in 1980 it had a 389 Pontiac under the hood, an automatic where the 4 speed used to be, and a shifter and console out of a 65 Chevelle. I'm pretty sure it wasn't built that way.
I caught up with a guy I know who was working the auction scoping out sketchy Oldsmobiles at the auction. We approached a green A-body and I noticed the script that could only mean it was not a Cutlass - an F-85! They're always cool because they often seem to be either Grandma cars or W-31s. With W-31 decals on the front fender, my heart jumped - this car looked cool! But I immediately noticed the hood was not proper for a W-31. I read the description and told my friend that the hood was a red flag.
That's when he explained that he had already gone through it all already. The VIN clearly wasn't from Lansing - it was from Oshawa - so what happened next was pretty neat: he got in touch with the folks at GM of Canada, who confirmed exactly how this car was equipped (although he didn't tell me).
But the pièce de résistance was when he opened the hood: grease was strategically covering the numbers of the engine . . . and the grease was painted. Seems the seller (I believe a dealer) spray-canned parts of the engine and didn't bother to do it properly when prepping it for the auction. This was a perfumed pig incarnate.
So, yeah, the seller was presented with the assessment, which meant he had to adjust his description (or, presumably, exit the auction with the car). I guess it's up for debate whether he was intentionally deceptive or merely was flipping a car and passing along the buck (pun not intended) without a care in the world except to find a sucker.
There's also a 1967 Beaumont SD 396 there that also received scrutiny via GM of Canada. Not only was it not a real 396 car, but it wasn't a real Sport Deluxe either!
Also chatted with B-J's Mopar guy and he showed me how he scratched off some paint on a "Numbers Matching" '68 Charger and saw the engine was a '72. Same deal - the description was "adjusted."
This really isn't anything new to most of us, but the first-hand observation I had was another reminder that the only reason why I was there was because my dad lives in Phoenix. No, I don't feel that "the hi-profile auctions have contributed greatly to the number of bogus cars" because they merely have given the scammers a channel to market their fraud, but I wouldn't go so far as to blame auctions for the proliferation of fraud - it would exist anyway, as it does in all forms of business.
Still, I'm terribly disappointed that the draw of cars (courtesy of the bright lights of B-J and Mecum) continues to be stronger than the draw of integrity.
January 23rd, 2016, 09:51 PM
