dc2x4drvr

I have a '73 ? P/N 412265 with an X on the casting, does it designate anything special, or just another Olds wp? I'm thinking of sending it in for a rebuild, and using it on my '71 442.

allyolds68

Octania has the 412265 listed on his spreadsheet (dated 2004) with a quantity on hand of 11 so I doubt it's anything special. He doesn't say anything about the X though

Mr Shifty Sidney

Maybe it is a 4 instead of an X. 4's are more common. The X will not be the correct length if your car is not a W-30. I have a couple of "1" waterpumps that are correct for 71 442 non W, non A/C if you need one. "2" water pump is correct for non A/C 71 W30. "3" is correct for 71 A/C including W30.

Don W

Mr Shifty Sidney

X is correct for 70 W30. Do not have the correct casting number available now.

Don W

don71

I believe the number is 404847.

mike8162

It's my understanding that an X in the casting is for non-A/C cars and an O is for A/C cars.

Cheers, Mike8162

Mr Shifty Sidney

Mike
I think it was recently discussed on here that the "O" was a Toronado water pump. "X" is correct for 70 Cutlass/442 models with A/C, HD cooling or W-30/31.

Don W

Octania

PN database says:

Water Pump, Engine Cooling. Casting ID "4" #4, 412265
Length 6.1", Inlet 1.8" dia.,
Impeller 3.8" dia. Stamped [sometimes x.xx" Cast]
Most common pump. AW1120 Airtex, Interchange #251-231. Ebay ad 9129: Replaces GM #'s 231073, 231887, & 556283. 71-82 Oldsmobile Delta 88, Custom Cruiser, Ninety-Eight, Toronado. 1971-74 All (w/AC, or Towing Pkg.)_ 1975 Delta 88 w/ 350 eng. (w/AC or Towing Pkg.)_ 1975 w/ 260, 455 engs. (w/AC or Towing Pkg.)_ 1976 All (w/AC or HD Cooling)_ 1977-78 Toronado w/ 403 (K) eng._ 1977-80 260, 350 (R), 403 (K) Eng. (with A/C, or H.D. Cool)_ 1978-80 350 (N) Diesel eng. w/AC_ 1980 307 eng. w/AC_ 1981-82 307 (5.0)eng. w/AC_ 1982 350 (N 5.7) Diesel eng. w/AC_ 1982 260 (8 4.3) eng.w/AC_
PULLEY SETS: KC/KO; LA/LD/ZP; LA/LD/KA-268; KB-235/??/??;

It's by far the most common unit in my experience.

Mr Shifty Sidney

dc2x4drvr
4 or X, looks like both are to long if your car is non A/C. I would double check before sending anything out to be rebuilt.

Don W

mike8162

Thanks Don, I hope I am not rehashing a settled issue but after reading your post I had to go check my water pump. I have a 69 442 with HD cooling system and A/C. My water pump has casting number 400268 and an O in the casting. I believe the WP is original (I bought the car with 50k miles in 1984). The website that I checked tells me this number is for a W-30, W-32 and Hurst/Olds with A/C or HD cooling.
Cheers, Mike8162

Mr Shifty Sidney

Mike
I was going off my memory about the O water pump, it always gets me in trouble. I checked your casting numbers in my books and it looks like you have the correct pump as you stated. It is correct for 68/69 models. Thanks for checking/verifying.

Don W

mike8162

Don
Not sure where I heard about the Xs and Os with AC and non AC cars. It was when I was doing my restoration back in the nineties. I'm not sure it's even correct, it just seems to be the case with every original Olds I come in contact with.
Cheers, Mike8162

Octania

The X casting is pretty rare, used only for 1970, I believe.
5.6" with a 2" inlet nipple, like the "O" 400xxx castings.
It looks like no other castings have these two features.

An "O" casting is usually found on HD Cooling packages, but the "O" mark was used on various castings including
5.1 x 2.0,

5.6 x 2.0, and

6.1 x 1.8" models.

This is one of those occasions where the larger casting ID -alone- cannot be used to peg the application, like "X" or "W" exhaust manifold, "J" intake, etc.

dc2x4drvr

My X code pump was on my '71Oldsmobile 455 a/c car, when I bought it in 1998, I'll try to take a pic of the "X" on the casting...

don71

That's where I got mine from. I have a pic, not sure if I have it hosted though. The other pump #4 looks different.

Uploaded with ImageShack.com

Uploaded with ImageShack.com

Mr Shifty Sidney

I assumed your car was non A/C with the modifications. I see now in your description that it has A/C. Originally your car should have come with a "3" water pump/casting 407536. This is a longer pump than the 70 "X" pump. I am guessing you have a "4" instead of an "X". Either way you go just make sure you have the correct length pump. Good luck.

Don W

davebw31

Do not use a 71' and up HD Cooling/AC W/P or the non HD Cooling/AC applications on a 68-70' 350/455. The inlet is 1/8" smaller in diameter for both styles, thus restricting water flow volume. The outside diameter is the same for 68' and up. Due to low compression and unleaded fuel for 71' and up engines, it was no longer necessary to have the volume of coolant flow through the engine/radiator for the previous years high compression premium fueled engines.

There are four casting numbers for the number "4" W/P that will work for the HD Cooling/AC application. I have been able to get rebuilt ones from CARQUEST with the correct casting numbers if you order by year/application.

400268
400269
400289
404847

Also, if you buy a rebuilt make sure it has the cast iron impeller and not the replacement "fan blade type". The cast iron one does not "captivate" at high rpm and will flow the proper GPH of coolant necessary to keep the engine cool in slow low speed traffic and when at idle for a long period of time.

I have two (2) used/rebuildable 404847 pumps for sale. $125.00 each plus shipping USPS or UPS.

Octania

There are four casting numbers for the number "4" W/P that will work for the HD Cooling/AC application.
400268
400269
400289
404847
==================
The above are X-404847 and O-400xxx numbers
these are the ONLY factory castings with the combination of medium 5.6" length and large 2.0" inlet. As for the 400xxx castings, I am not entirely convinced yet that the three variations aren't just people having a hard time reading the digits, though I vaguely recall seeing two of them listed in a factory parts book at one time.

In contrast, the very common #4 and its functional twins such as the #3-407536 are the longest at 6.1" and sport the smaller 1-3/4" inlet nipple.


Also, if you buy a rebuilt make sure it has the cast iron impeller and not the replacement "fan blade type". The cast iron one does not "captivate" at high rpm and will flow the proper GPH of coolant necessary to keep the engine cool in slow low speed traffic and when at idle for a long period of time.
=================
I seriously doubt that the flow difference thru a 2.0 OD nipple vs 1.75-1.8" nipple is going to be significant at IDLE speeds. It is however a difference that matters when you try to install that lower radiator hose. And, yes, cavitation is to be avoided, as it is destructive.

I invite all y'all to procure a copy of my Olds water pump and pulleys database if you don't have one. It's not perfect, and not canonical, but sorts out much of the most common things like this. Please be patient, I am out of town for a while right now.

Chris
RocketScience443@hotmail.com <== CHANGE THE "443" to the obvious correct number

or it will not work. Anything to ward off more SPAM.

davebw31

thanks chris