slam1918

I've been doing gobs of research on redoing the top end of my 69 442 400. Most people have said trash it and spring for the 455. Brad said the bottom end is simply an air box and getting the air in/out is the key to HP. I must say he speaks with logic and has the heads to back it up. I'm going for the Wise cast stage 1 heads with roller chain, cam, rockers, custom headers to match his heads & and a performer intake. His R&D seems much more relevant than the fake Mondello, the real Mondello or the chinese Mondello. Should the bottom drop out then I will move to a 455.
Any opinions??

oldcutlass

My only thought is how many miles are on the bottom end?

slam1918

bottom is less than 4000 miles new. That said I will put a hi pressure oil pump in & give it the eye ball when she is on the stand. Any thoughts on the Wise head?

coppercutlass

Isn't that set up a bit overkill ? what about the procomps . I know brad makes some really nice stuff but i think his stuff is more towards higher hp levels. Kinda like the rrp heads. Im sure his heads come with plenty of material for porting but i can only imagine his stuff costing alot. Which is the nature of the beast when you deal with limited production and demand parts.

f-85

The best question is. How much do you wanna beat on this motor?

oldcutlass

Sounds like plan, let us know how it progresses.

slam1918

overkill, perhaps but doesn't it seem like HP is an addiction. Once you get some you always want a little more.

slam1918

She's a convertible without a roll bar or drive shaft loop so she will never hit the track. Should one of those obnoxious Mustangs come up along side me I won't hesitate to unleash. It's not a daily driver more of a weekend warrior.

coppercutlass

I think something like the procomps or edelbrocks would work good imo. If you chose to run aluminum. On the street tq. is king., also if you are not drag racing it you wont be able to see the benifits of the better air flow of the heads so to speak . I have seen many big blocks run in the 10's and 11's on iron heads. I have also seen iron headed small blocks running 10's on iron heads.

coppercutlass

The only reason i say the eddy's or procomps is price vs performance vs. use vs. potential. I can only imagine the wise heads costing more than the edelbrocks. the wise heads has all those but the price is probably more.

slam1918

no question it's mo money plus you can't use an off the shelf header as his heads move the exhaust ports. what the hell...in for a penny....support the locals instead of the corporate eddy.

tru-blue 442

So Slam man, how did she turn out?

copper128

Tell us about your new heads. Any pics?

dc2x4drvr

Do these heads exist in "off the shelf ready for shipment form"? Edelbrocks would meet your goal, and they are readily available.

oldcutlass

I forgot about this project...I wonder the outcome also.

slam1918

short version:I changed horses mid stream. Brad did NOT produce. Bernard Mondello did. He is a stand up guy and was extremely helpful throughout the process. Will give credit in a future post. I'm comin down the home stretch, just tested the elec fans, buttoned up the new upper & lower A frames. Awaiting a new tailshaft trans seal, V/C breathers, & air cleaner then she goes to get the collectors welded & a wheel alignment. I want to fabricate a bar that I can un button that is fastened to the frame to prevent my nice ARH headers from getting doinked and then off we go.

59-59-59

Did you forget that you typed this? Then you spend money at Mondello? I'm confused

slam1918

sorry for the random order

slam1918

Dear Dazed & confused, ohhhhhhh trust me, I did NOT forget. sometimes you just get a gut feeling and when your waitin on a train and it don't come in it's time to switch tracks. I own this for fun at when you look at the cost of a pair of good Italian dress shoes the money flushed down the toilet doesn't measure up to the fun I've had on this build.

tru-blue 442

Looks damn nice.
I really like the elec. fan set-up.

slam1918

Thanks...Perma cool 2X 12"s thermostat controlled as well as relayed to A/C switch. All wire is marine grade tinned with heat shrink connectors. Let's see if it works in the South Florida sun.

501Paratrooper

I'll race you down A1A!

slam1918

your on.....you goin to Moroso next month??? top fuel test & tune

501Paratrooper

No, that was wishful thinking. My body is coming off the frame and getting sprayed soon. Should be done by Jan. Motor will be done in later this month it's just getting rebuilt and a little port/polish and a better cam. I might go to Moroso though, I'll look out for you. I see you have two 69 verts, I might be looking for a 69 Cutlass Conv soon.

slam1918

definitely worth going to Mike at TEC in Riviera Beach. I had a pin hole leak in the block to intake seal (using Permatex Black) He found it injecting smoke & saved a pile of aggravation. Everything's for sale so if your interested I'm a good listener.

501Paratrooper

TEC did my block too. I probably will have them do an LS for me in a future project thus the looking for a Cutlass vert sorry for the blasphemy....
I see you're in Tequesta, have you been to Muscle Express they are doing the body for me.
I've been very happy with them so far.

slam1918

TEC just did the dyno pulls for me. I did all the work in my garage. I stopped in at Muscle Express, they seemed vey thorough. Around the corner at masters auto will finish up the exhaust system & alignment for me.

501Paratrooper

Exhaust and a alignment are in my future too.

slam1918

highly recommend American Racing Headers in Stainless out of Long Island. You must replace the starter with a mini but other that that with copper gaskets they bolt right up. Mind the oil dipstick, I waited till after the flange was bolted up and then had to bend & contort it, put a little hair on it & finally fell in the hole.

copper128

There's a shocker

oldcutlass

Looks good and respectable numbers.

f-85

No trying to start any fights. Just wanna know the story on this. Did you have the cash and ready to buy and brad just didnt have any heads to sell?

Bernhard

Do you know what the clearances are, rod and mains?
Stick car very cool what trans do you have?

507OLDS

Brad really doesn't have anything to sell.

slam1918

OK for F-85.....the rest of the story: Yes Brad's heads are a work of art, but as you all seem to realize it's a work in progress. I gave him a downstroke to get the heads built. He wanted the full amount up front but I was savvy enough to agree to 50%. My son lives in Ashville so I went up to check out the shop. Brad is very personable. Upon further review the actual date of delivery and the potential modifications that would have to be done for head & valve cover clearance it became a realization that the Z heads were a long way out. I didn't feel confident I would get my deposit back & at the time Brad seemed sincere so rather that abandon ship I commissioned him to do up a pair of C heads he had layin in the shop. Too much time rolled by and we had a few exchanges that were no longer amicable so I drove back to his shop, picked up parts that he had ordered & walked away from the C heads. (they looked like **** & everyone seemed to

To this day I don't know how many if any Z heads are on a motor. I think we all saw on ROP Brad blew a head gasket at the engine comp and Bad Andy & Co ripped sufficient *** that my contributions were not needed. Besides I don't know how to post those comic strips. Someone said it best...Brad just shut up & show some solid results....I wish him no ill will however I will be happy to discuss my real time experience with Wise performance.

507OLDS

He was going to try porting C-heads?
At that point you would be further ahead to get a set of Edelbrocks,or some of Bernard's pro-comps.
Looks like you're headed in the right direction.

slam1918

507....i guess you got beef with Brad???
Burnhard: I did not have the bottom end apart so i don't know bearing clearances. Since everyone says my 400 block is not worth putting money in I left it. Figuring I will look for a 455 & over time build that & then just transfer the top end.
I noticed a comment "respectable" for 505 ftlbs torque / 415 hp.....given the set up what would one expect to find???

507OLDS

No beef. Just a shame how he has lead the public on about something that doesn't really exist. He is not a designer or machinist. Just a marketer,and not a good one.

Bernhard

Thanks for posting very good information to know, What did the heads look like/what was wrong with them?

For a unknown bottom end those are good numbers, there is lots of hp/tq in the right piston and ring pack.

What trans are you running?

Wise Performance

Here is a pic of the Heads I spend a considerable amount of time on, ported and flowed for street/ strip, 275+cfm complete ported runners, epoxied exhaust heat risers, custom Manley stainless 2.07 intake, 1.68 exhaust, bronze guide liners, surfaced, 3 angle valve job complete and ready for customer pick up.

For the record, Slam is a cool guy, but he wanted to keep his AC and factory brackets, our "Z" heads are almost 2" taller than stock and would require alot of modifications so I suggested Edelbrocks or factory iron heads would better suit his needs with a stock bottom end.

No hard feelings, Good luck with your new engine, wish I could have helped.



And here is a pic of our new "Z" heads that appearently don't exist.(507)?
These heads were on the 2013 EMC engine.