Burning question that I've had for a while is where do production and options #s come from? I have production sheets that tell me how many of this model were made in the production year. But what I can't understand is where selling dealers and others find how many were made with this or that option other than Canada.
It baffles the hell out of me when it's stated in an ad that 10 were made with (i.e.) power trunk release . Does anyone know or have hard copies of such info?

 

I generally don't trust what dealers say. I like numbers and usually can sniff 'em out. A lot of people - sellers or otherwise - usually only know what they read or what they hear from someone else. The Internet has been a boon for information, but it's also been a boon for misinformation.

Generally, for Oldsmobiles, if you see a combination of options (like W-30 and AC), I am not aware of documentation that exists proving it - the only combo is engine and tranny. With other brands, your results may differ.

 

So in so many words you don't have a clue.

 

You should ask the people that post the numbers if you want someone who has a clue.

I myself have some Oldsmobile and Brand X documents.

 

Hi Paul,

I agree with Diego, these dealers spout numbers and stories to propagate sales and dollars, most often it's something they read somewhere

As you know they do have some numbers of the performance cars and generalized production of body styles. But any numbers that did not come from known good sources i.e. Heritage center or setting the pace should be questioned without Oldsmobile documents to back it up.

Pat

 

The technical term for those production numbers is PIFMA.

(Pulled It From My @$$)

 

LOL You got that right Joe.

 

Great question Paul!
It too baffled me on an option as a 442 or W30, W31, W32. Even manual or Automatic Transmission? 442's came with 3 speeds even.


I can see in 1968 thru 1971, but back to manual or Automatic as options.


I asked back in the 1980's where these numbers came from, but never got a pin pointed answer.


I thought all this info was lost, thrown away or a fire. Rumors back in the day.


I to will agree with Joe as a PIFMA.

 

The two sources would be internal company documents, and data from those documents that the fed government requires for tracking. Theoretically, the fed data would exist some place and be available if you can find it. Internal docs would have to be found by someone who was part of it. Neither are likely.

 

I don't think the feds cared about production records back in the 1960s and early 70s. We tend to forget that back then the data was primarily paper records and not easily compiled into a database. Plus, the ambulance-chasing product liability lawyers hadn't yet realized the windfall of class action lawsuits.

 

It's always amused me when a guy says something like "there were X # of a particular model made & 75 % were automatics and the rest were standards'

 

LMAO...PIFMA. Its only with some estimated math that we (Oldsmobilers) can even take a educated guess but most of the other crap has been PFOsFA! (pulled from ones....).
Too bad we cant go back to that simpler time with IBM punch cards when the GD scourge lawyers didnt have 3 minute tv ads with a jingle and quintessential blond with bright red lip stick selling their snake oil wares....lipstick on a...

 

Ok now that we have you Mike, production #s for 66 W-30s how did that get out?

 

There's no such thing as educated guesses - there's either hard numbers, or numbers derived from a percentage plus a rate of error.

 

Small numbers got reported in press releases. HOs, W-30s, etc.

 

I can't say that I've ever seen a press release on W-30 production numbers. As for H/O production, how many 69s were built? 906? 912? 914 with convertibles? Or is it really 915 since one convert was replaced after being totaled?

My point is that press releases aren't necessarily accurate numbers.

 

Hairy Olds - Ok now that we have you Mike, production #s for 66 W-30s how did that get out?


This is the other Mike.
The 1966 Oldsmobile W-30s, Olds had to prove to NHRA that there was at least 50 cars made to make it an option, not experimental parts. Olds made a few more to be safe.
In 1967 NHRA moved that number to 500 cars.


As for the Hurst/Olds, Hurst and Demmer were converting them from 442's to H/O's, so they had to keep track if they wanted to get paid.

 

You beat me to it.

 

So Mike can you tell me where the # for 67 W-30s came from for factory or over the counter kits. I have heard of these #s for years but I haven't seen any documentation.
Lord knows I know very little about anything much less Oldsmobiles but I'm trying to learn.

 

Most people do, older person!

 

1967, Olds had to prove again to NHRA.
502, 2 extra cars.
Notice that all were over 500 after that, W30 & W31(RamRod350) per NHRA.

 

And yet some production data is available. In particular, X # of a particular model and Y % were automatics. So don't go dismissing everything you read.

 

Where can this said factory document(s) be found?

 

Yes please share Brian if you could.

 

The Archives at the GM Heritage Center have some production data. I'm not talking about build sheets for every car made. Rather, summary data showing the number of each option built for each model during a given month. There may be other such production data hidden away in the archives.

Unfortunately, the archives are available for legitimate research only and only by appointment. Someone was nice enough to give me a copy of some data, but it's not mine to share. If the other two people who I know have this data thinks it appropriate to share, that's up to them. It's my understanding that the Heritage Center is rather protective of such items and doesn't want them circulated.

I've posted samples of this production data in threads before, the best example being the Rare Options thread.

 

This is what I know of what the GMHC has:

1957
1958
1962
1963
1964
1967
1970
1971
1972
1973

The formats are different for the pre-67 and post-67 items. There may also be post '73 for all I know.

For 1967-72, You can find out options per model line, so W-27 for 4-4-2 or Cutlass or F-85, sure. But those lists only go through June because someone either stole or misplaced the July of the respective year, so total production is not available - 1971 is the exception because Kurt and I found the July pages inserted where it shouldn't have been. It was pure luck.

They also have Helen Early's pages, which I have seen, but she have some notes that aren't sourced from any production info listed above, so obviously there have been other resources that were used . . . but where are they?