2blu442

I've seen a couple comments about installing shoulder straps in 1968's. But today in response to a members question I looked at a roof panel removed from a 1966 Cutlass 2 door hardtop. I was surprised to find the supports there, and it looks like the size/spacing of the bolt holes may be the same as 69-72 cars.

Can anybody tell me if this is true for all 1966's regardless of which assembly plant built them? Has anybody installed newer shoulder straps in these cars, to verify if they will interchange? Even though its not factory this might be a nice upgrade for a driver. I still remember doing a face plant into my steering wheel back when I was 17... I survived but I think bruised ribs may have been preferred over a banged up face!

John

66-3X2 442

!966 was the first year for shoulder harness's. It was a mid year option,February. If the cowl tag has a hole punched in it,it has the shoulder harness mounts in the roof. I'm putting them in my car.

dc2x4drvr

Interesting, I'm installing 3 pt. belts in my '442, no reason not to...

2blu442

Thanks for clarifying Mike. So before someone starts cutting into their headliner they need to verify the hole in the trim tag!

66400

An oddity for 66-67 and early 68 shoulder harness is the section attached to the roof has the female buckle on it and when not in use it has a bracket on the rear quarter where it's stored in a vertical fashion.

Henry

chip-powell

That actually brings up a question that I have been wondering about. I have a 1971 cutlass convertible. Were shoulder belts still an option in '71? Mine only has lap belts, and I have not found any supports where a shoulder belt would ever have existed.

I know that my '69 el camino had shoulder belts, but maybe the convertibles are just a different animal entirely.

Oldsmaniac

67 wagon

oldspackrat

Shoulder straps were available in convertibles. They attached at the top? of the hydraulic cylinder mount behind the cover. My '72 has them & I've seen a couple others also. There are also rear seat shoulder belt provisions in 2 doors, 4 doors & the wagons. While looking through the Fisher body manual? several years ago, I noticed the caged nuts were shown for mounting the belts & when I checked my car, sure enough they were there!

66400

Can you tell me if on the center door post is there a plastic retainer for the buckle to attach to?

Thanks, Henry

Oldsmaniac

I can check but I dont remember seeing something like that.... will check this weekend.

joe_padavano

Correct. Federal seat belt laws required shoulder belts for the outboard front passengers starting with the 1968 model year on all cars EXCEPT convertibles. The shoulder belts on converts were still optional through the 1972 model year.

joe_padavano

Can you provide more info on the wagon installation? I'm planning on installing shoulder belts on my 64 Vista, which obviously won't have the hard points for the attachment at the roof rail. Did this car have the male buckle on the roof portion, with the two clips for belt stowage? Thanks.

Koda

Clarification, are you saying that all non-convertibles 68 and on had front
seat shoulder belts for the outboard passengers, or that they all had to have the option to do so?

My one 72 has them, and my one 67 does not, so that makes sense.


Another question on the cowl tags: The 66 has a punch. What does the 67 have to show for it? Here's a 67 cowl tag, the only letter I don't know is the "S" above the Lansing body number. I've seen some A's there too.
That letter probably has nothing to do with the shoulder belts, I guess.

Oldsmaniac

Joe I can only supply pictures after the weekend because I know little else about the shoulder straps.

joe_padavano

No problem, thanks.

joe_padavano

Well, as I posted above, they were REQUIRED by federal law on all cars except convertibles. That means that cars (except convertibles) could not be legally sold without them. To be completely clear, implementation of the law was Jan 1, 1968, so it's possible that 1968 model year cars built prior to the first of the year might not have had them. The optional shoulder belts, had been available since the 1966 model year.

66400

Seeing how all 67 GM cars had provision for the shoulder belts no cowl code info needed. Was useful on the 66 cars for dealer or owner installation of shoulder belts.

Henry

chip-powell

That's what I like about this site, you learn something new every time you log in. Thanks for the info.

66-3X2 442

66 Convertibles were also available with shoulder harness's. I see no reason why 67 & later cars were not available with them.

66-3X2 442

The shoulder harness's were installed by Fisher and 66 & 67 used a 'Z' code on the cowl tag for them. All of the 67 cars had the roof mounts for them,so no special punch hole was used. If anybody is interested in having some belts made,I can give you the name of a great vendor who did mine. They are perfect in every way. The only thing that might be a problem is the plastic holders that are used to hold the belt/buckle when not in use.

F-85 4-4-2

Mike, hit me with that vendor.

66-3X2 442

The reason the roof mounted belt used a female buckle is so they couldn't get confused with the lap belt. The lap belt uses a female buckle on the belt that comes up from the floor in the middle of the bench seat or the side of bucket seats. The shoulder harness belts used the male belt in the same location as the female lap belt. That way you can't mess up.

66-3X2 442

I have the factory installation instructions for the 66 shoulder belts and if I'm not wrong,they show all body styles. I can dig them out to see but it will be early next week before I can.

66-3X2 442

OK,here's the info. He also did my seat belts along with the shoulder belts and the quality is second to none.


http://www.pythonrestoration.com/

His name is Stuart Nolan and tell him Mike Richards referred you.

Koda

Ok, that and Joe's info has me sorted out.

My 72's tuck away so perfectly that I usually forget they are there. I have used them maybe 5 times, usually on road trips.

Now, here's the kicker. Due to ex post facto laws and general American rebelliousness, I maintain that separate shoulder belts are optional for the driver to wear. Anyone have any knowledge or opinion on if you can get busted for just wearing the lap belt?

66-3X2 442

One thing I forgot to mention. The 66 belts differ from the 67 belts. I have
not have seen a 67 belt in a long time but it has something to do with the belt anchor @ the roof. The anchor point is the same,it's the belt end that's different. I will post pictures of the 66 shoulder belts & related parts when I have some time.

2blu442

It might depend on the state. In Oregon if a car is equipped with shoulder belts they must be worn. John

66400

As a factory option Fisher Body installed them.

They were also offered for dealer and owner installation according to April 66 Oldsmobile Service Guild on page 33. "After Mar 15, 1966 front seat shoulder straps will become available as a factory or dealer installed option".
Henry

chip-powell

It actually depends on your state AND how the car is registered. In Maryland, if I had registered my cutlass like any other car I would have had to install shoulder belts so that it could pass inspection. But since I have "historic" tags on it, none of that applies. I do not even have to get her inspected, or run through the emmisions testing.

joe_padavano

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. In any event, the specific wording of the laws in your state will govern.

joe_padavano

Historic tags do not exempt you from applicable laws, it simply means that you don't have to get inspected. You can still be pulled over for equipment issues, such as burned out lights. Seat belts are the same thing. Whether you WILL get pulled over or not is a different question.

As for "needing" to install belts to pass inspection, the inspection only requires what was federally required for the year the car was built.

joe_padavano

I would really appreciate that, if it shows the more-door cars. I assume the Vista front seat belts are the same as for any other 4DR.

chip-powell

Actually historic tags do exempt me (at least in Maryland) as it pertains to shoulder belts. I checked with the MVA (most states call it the DMV) before I got my tags and they showed me the actual law on the books.

You are correct when it comes to taillights, burned out turn signals, etc... If those are out, I can be pulled over for that.

joe_padavano

Well, I'm in VA, but here's the text of the MD law that I could find:

All it says are "two sets" of seat belts. It doesn't specify lap or shoulder. Again, I can't believe that the law would require you to install belts that did not come from the factory.

Koda

Same idea as you can't be busted for not having airbags in a car made before they were mandated.

Seems most states I looked at last night have a "if it's there, use it." law so I guess you can get zapped for not using all of the system. Read about a "not using complete seat belt system" infraction, too, so I guess that's that.

joe_padavano

Certainly if your car didn't come from the factory with shoulder belts, you can't be required to use them. Why you would choose not to use the belts if they are there is a mystery, however.

Koda

Not sure why you're talking down to me on this thread. The stock belts have no inertial reel, are a bit of a pain to deploy and use, and coupled with being new tech being introduced to a generation that didn't even care for lap belts resulted in many not getting used at all.

For full disclosure, I use the shoulder belts on road trips, and not for short, in town, Sunday drives.

chip-powell

I think what I was originally saying got mixed up somehow and then we went off on this tangent. What I was trying to say was that in Maryland if I did a regular registration for my cutlass, I was told by the MVA that I would have to install shoulder belts so that it could pass state inspection and recieve tags. I verified this at my local garage. As long as I keep "historic" tags on it, then the lap belts, by themselves, are legal.

joe_padavano

Not "talking you down", you're an adult, you're allowed to make your own choices. I've very familiar with the non-inertia reel shoulder belts.

Just remember that most accidents happen within 25 miles of home.

Koda

Ok, I'll bear that in mind. Sorry, the "I have no idea how you got to that conclusion" and "it's a mystery" tweaked me a little. I'll go have more coffee, I guess.

I should use those belts more. I guess I should put them on my 67, too. I just don't like to.