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With regards to a factory option. Here, from Olds Junction. For 1970 model year " A rear deck spoiler was available on the Rallye 350, 442 and W models. The 70-72 442 wings were fiberglass, not aluminum."
Were W-35 wings as an option only available on 1970 442’s January 1, 1970 and onwards ?
That is a very interesting question. RPO W35 does NOT appear in the Aug 69 or Sept 69 versions of the SPECS booklets that I have. The Product Selling Information data from Sept 69 also does not show it. The Inspectors Guide from Aug 69 does not show it. The Oct 1969 Dealership Pricing Guide does not show it.
The dealership W-machines color brochure dated Nov 69 DOES show it. The Dealership Optional Equipment List revised Dec 18, 1969 shows it. The Jan 1970 SPECS booklet also lists W35.
Finally, the engineering drawing that defines the location of the holes to be drilled in the trunklid for the wing is dated Oct 10, 1969. Obviously no wings were factory-installed prior to that date. I haven't yet found the Marketing Memo that identifies the exact on-sale date, but it's obviously somewhere between Oct 10, 1969 and Jan 70.
Yes, indeed an interesting question.
That lines up well with RPO W45, Rallye 350s production dates, first few months of 1970, 01A is the earliest build date I have a record of (tx, Gearman69). Please show me an earlier one if you have it.
So the wing existed before Jan '70. Had to for manufacturing, shipping, scheduling logistics on the Rallye cars. The 67 day Sept to Nov Strike played a part in all of this I'm sure.
I pose the following...
1. 1970 production W30 cars were available starting week 10B or second week of 69, right? Does nobody have a documented 10B to the end of 1969, W30 with a factory W35? They were optional on all 70 W cars, right? date code ref: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...442-w30-43203/
2. What was the first production week of the 1970 W31s? Anyone?
3..The 69 H/Os had the wing. or its likeness. Is the 69 H/O part the same part as the 70 up W35s...(same # throughout the 914 run of H/Os?). Was it called a W35 on the H/O? I don't think so it was just a package deal you got from Demmer with the H/O conversion.
We know this wing (69 H/O) started as a prototype part for the first 69 H/Os...right? Then at some point throughout the 914 car run it became a regular "make part" same as the mailbox scoop, neither available on any other 69 Olds models. I think Demmer outsourced both. I thought I remember something to that and the company that did it. Memory is the second thing to go.
69 H/Os were built by Demmer from March to May 1969. So, in theory, they(or their likeness) had to exist prior to March 69 as a part number and a drawing. I wonder what the evolution was from prototype to preproduction then RPO. Wonder what Demmer's part in this was?
I'm very familiar with print control and change control. I'll bet drawings exist before 10/10/69 (conjecture until proven). We know the record-keeping wasn't GM's forte' I'm sure print control followed that mantra.
That is a very interesting question. RPO W35 does NOT appear in the Aug 69 or Sept 69 versions of the SPECS booklets that I have. The Product Selling Information data from Sept 69 also does not show it. The Inspectors Guide from Aug 69 does not show it. The Oct 1969 Dealership Pricing Guide does not show it.
The dealership W-machines color brochure dated Nov 69 DOES show it. The Dealership Optional Equipment List revised Dec 18, 1969 shows it. The Jan 1970 SPECS booklet also lists W35.
Finally, the engineering drawing that defines the location of the holes to be drilled in the trunklid for the wing is dated Oct 10, 1969. Obviously no wings were factory-installed prior to that date. I haven't yet found the Marketing Memo that identifies the exact on-sale date, but it's obviously somewhere between Oct 10, 1969 and Jan 70.
Not a bad drawing. One convention error, and one typo that I see.
We know the record-keeping wasn't GM's forte' I'm sure print control followed that mantra.
I'm going to challenge that statement. Having driven a drafting board for the early part of my carreer, I too am very familiar with drafting room manuals and drawing configuration control. You can't run a production operation without CM, and GM certainly had drafting room manuals and configuration control. The fact that Oldsmobile chose not to retain those drawings and production records for decades after the cars left the factory has nothing to do with poor record keeping. It is simply a business fact that GM was in the business of selling new cars, not providing historical services for old ones. The whole "anything could happen" argument is not true; it's really just a BS line fed by people trying to justify asking stupid money for a one-of-none car.
As for the wing itself, yeah, obviously the 1969 H/O wing is the same as the one used on the 70-71 cars (trivia factoid: W35 was not factory available on the 1972 cars). I'm sure there are engineering drawings of the wing and associated molds from 1969. I was always under the impression that Demmer installed those, not Oldsmobile. I cannot speak to Demmer's configuration control standards (though the "quality" of the hole in the hood under the scoop on my 69 says a lot...). No, there was no RPO W35 for the 1969 model year - just as there was no RPO number for the H/O scoop or dual gate. Those parts were all included with and only available with RPO W46, the H/O package. The drawing I posted of the wing mounting holes for 1970 has a 10/10/69 drawing date. That's typically the date that the draftsman started the drawing. Figure at least a week to go through the drawing check and approval process - though interestingly that drawing format doesn't require dates on approval signatures). I don't know why there would be an earlier drawing than 10/10/69.
Also as an FYI, the Jan 1972 printing of the parts book shows P/N 407694 for the "Spoiler" used on 1969 Hurst and applicable for all 1969-72 F85 series 2drs (exc convertible). Note that's a later part number, as 1969 part numbers are in the 398xxx range and 1970 part numbers are in the 403xxx-404xxx range, so this P/N has been superseded at some point. A parts book with a printing date of mid-1969 would provide the most accurate info, but as we've seen in threads on shock absorber P/Ns and Qjet metering rods, the parts book sometimes conflicts with engineering drawings and unmolested cars.
I would also speculate that the 1969 parts in the 398xxx range & 1970 parts in the 403xxx-404xxx range are long lead part numbers already assigned and/or part number batches set aside for those model years well before the '69 H/O designed/approved/finalized spoiler needed a Oldsmobile part number and the next practical available number (random unused?) was the 407694
???
similar scenario for the part number for the '69 H/O 15x7.0" wheel - 405943
I would also speculate that the 1969 parts in the 398xxx range & 1970 parts in the 403xxx-404xxx range are long lead part numbers already assigned and/or part number batches set aside for those model years well before the '69 H/O designed/approved/finalized spoiler needed a Oldsmobile part number and the next practical available number (random unused?) was the 407694
???
similar scenario for the part number for the '69 H/O 15x7.0" wheel - 405943
That's a fair point, as numbers are assigned in blocks for specific projects. I still, however, remain cautious about superseded parts book numbers. For example, one of my favorites - motor mounts. The Sept 68 parts book shows the 69 400 motor mount as P/N 402950. The Jan 72 parts book shows that application as 406436, which is the same P/N as that on the 70-72 455s.
Part # 405943 in the July '69 parts book. Descriptions in the parts books are not always accurate. And y
es there were already some 1970 parts listed in the July '69 parts book.
THIS says Plastic whereas others above said Fiberglass (?)
Any Idea why the discrepancy or the reality ?
I believe its one and the same just generalized for ease of use.
I'm a huge fan of MotorWeek, especially retro review. John Davis the host and a Corvette guy would always refer to the fiberglass sports car as "Plastic Fantastic".
So I found the Olds Bulletin announcing the availability of the W-35 wing. The bulletin is dated 12/9/69. It states the W-35 wing was available starting approximately Jan 1, 1970. Orders would be received starting Dec. 15th. The part number given for the wing is 983190.
THIS says Plastic whereas others above said Fiberglass (?)
Any Idea why the discrepancy or the reality ?
Fiberglass is also called "FRP", which stands for Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic. The resin system used to bind fiberglass fibers is a form of plastic. And frankly, in the 1960s when cars were all metal, anything not metal was "plastic".
January 25th, 2020, 10:37 PM
