I am a rube exploring chasing down a particular 1970 442 W-30, possibly in the next 3 days. I need learn what I need to know before even though I have not yet discovered the sale is even plausible (I am waiting for replies).

The car is being sold with few details and pictures (so far), but here is what I've got at this point.

1. The car belonged to a collector and he had money, and I suspect he would have bought the car right. But obviously there are a thousand questions that are unresolved.
2. The description says it's the real deal, the fender has the W-30 emblem, and the wheels look right (styled steel, color matched)

So, what constitutes due diligence?

• Is there a range of VIN numbers to check?
• The engine number (LF, in front of exh. Manifold) should match the VIN (1st character and last 8)
• Where is the tranny number?
• Is there anything special about the differential? Or shifter? Or other parts?

And, the final question: what's it worth if I resell?

• Hagerty's shows 1970 W-30 selling pretty steadily since 9/2013 for $97K (condition 4, worst) to $268K (condition 1)
• My sense is $100K seems like a minimum for a correct car based on eBay completed sales and listings in Hemmings
• But I often find that the real experts (YOU) know practical info that may be even more important.
  1. In other words, I am dumb, you are smart, please educate me!
• I've sold stuff, so I am not ignoring the selling costs of maybe 20% in fees and time

FYI, I'm 70, I've been into cars forever, my most memorable daily driver (1970-1972) was a 1966 Corvette Coupe 427 (headers, Koni's, cam), and I ran my own VW/Audi/Porsche repair shop (I had 4 techs, 1 parts guy, 1 gofur). My interest has been foreign cars mainly, but I did respond to a R&T ad (1975?) for a 1964 442 yellow convertible for $,2400, but that's the only Olds I ever considered.

I thank you for your help.

 

PS -
I do realize the importance of it being an authentic W-30-

• Hagerty chart for 1970 W-30 convertible ($92K minimum, $140K average)
• Hagerty chart for 1970 442 convertible ($36K minimum, $60K average)

 

you need documentation...broadcast card, dealer paperwork etc. the fact that it has the correct parts does not mean it is real

 

You forgot to add Hagerty's 20% bump for a 4 speed ; )

 

Trans VIN derivative identical to engine one will be stamped into the side of the trans. AT or MT?

Beyond that, it's how much detail do you want to go into?
One can get super detailed like the date code on the diodes in the alternator... and I suppose the font of those characters... like the Corvette crowd.

More realisticlly, you want to also make sure the main W-30 specific big value parts are at least there, if not also with proper date codes:

Carb 704025x with X varying- see carb ID sources for W30 AT or W30 MT

Aluminum intake 406115 with the correct-for-production date "OLDS" or "OLDSMOBILE" emboss.

Heads bearing the "F" casting ID and casting # 404438

Distributor 1111977 for MT W30, or 1111979 for AT W30

Proper final drive ratio.

"X" water pump casting # 404847

Correct pulleys... it goes on and on....
Just to begin to properly Vette [sic] a car like that gonna take all damn day.

 

Excellent! That's exactly what I wanted. That's enough detail to get a good idea of authenticity.

• Where is the casting ID on the heads? I believe the heads are the most critical "matching numbers" components beyond the block.
• Does the carb have castings/tags that are visible after removing the cleaner?
• Ditto on distributor?
• Proper final drive ratio and correct pulleys are beyond my aspirations.

So than you very much. It would have taken many hours of research to ferret out this info.

PS - I believe it has a Hurst dual-gate shifter.

 

First, welcome to the forum!

In your first post you describe yourself as a "rube" when it comes to the vehicle you're interested in. If your primary concern is obtaining a correct specimen of near investment quality (at investment $$$), I would strongly suggest hiring one of the "specialists" on this board to inspect the vehicle prior to purchase. IMO, paying for expenses + a few bucks for their knowledge and time would be peanuts compared to the purchase price, you would learn many of the intricacies of this yr/model first hand, and it would probably register high on the fun factor to boot! Best of luck moving forward and finding that perfect fit.

 

Excellent suggestion and I had not considered that. Unfortunately there is almost zero time and I am still waiting to find out if I (or anyone) is allowed to do a detailed inspection.

 

Heads' ID is right above the VIN stamp on LH side, right at the right rear corner also of course. Huge letter. Confirm F casting with the 6-digit number around the lower center rocker cover bolt. 404 [bolt] 438 like that. Less frequently altered/ faked. Though my replica D heads have the correct 6-digit as well....

Carb number is easily seen, left side, rear corner, vertical. 704025x and some other date code stuff.

Distributor will be hard to read way back there. flashlight, take pic with cell phone? press clay onto it and read it out under the light? That works for VIN too sometimes.

Oh, the body tag is the 2nd most obvious thing to verify after the VIN itself.

This ain't no F85 or even a Cutlass, so, at this level, sure, get an expert on hand.

 

Hagerty is only a guide it is not accurate!

 

FWIW, if they're SSII wheels, they should not match the color of the body - they should be kinda argent.

 

And , you are definitely in the right spot . Some of the best have already responded to you .
If I read you correctly , you stated " If the seller allows you to do a detailed inspection " ? That alone should be a non qualifier for any potential buyer .
1970 Cutlass , 442 , W - 30 , 4 spds are some of the most " replicated " muscle cars in the last 25 years . Especially converts .
If you are still in position to buy , and you value verification ? Please post a few detailed images . Under hood , carb , intake , inner fenders , COWL TAG , general paint / Stripes for sure , trans + R.E. tags .. I'm sure several of the best will give you excellent and accurate feedback .
These are some of the most awesome , and collectible muscle cars ever produced . For your best experience . Be confident and verify ..
Thanks for showing up here first ...
Jim Tuma ..

 

The number one thing you need to know is that you must assume the car is a fake unless proven otherwise. There are many more W-30s on the road today than Olds ever built. Also, do NOT rely on the cylinder head letter "F", as it is very easy to convert the run of the mill "E" heads into rare and expensive "F" heads with a die grinder and sandblaster. Check the head casting number over the two center exhaust ports. It must be 404438. Pick at the numbers to verify that they are cast iron and not JB weld (sorry, Chris). Check VIN deriviatives. Look at the red inner fenders - are they aged and faded as originals would be or shiny new repros? Ultimately, educate yourself or pay an experienced person to inspect the car.

 

Paperwork is your best friend. If you have specific questions after getting more details you can PM me and we can chat on the phone. I've seen these cars sell for prices all over the board, haggerty's estimates are drunk rich person prices. I saw one auction where a red auto w30 convertible sold for 200k + and a documented Twilight Blue 4 speed W30 convert sold for under 100K. I would have bet my house the prices would have been reversed - you just never know.