starting problem
July 26th, 2010, 06:06 PM
#1
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starting problem
I let the car sit over two weeks with out starting it.had to jump the car.jumped it started right away.ques what should be the alternator be charging at at normal idle.and when the head lights are what should it charge at.also if the alternator is charging right I would guess its the battery.I have a 72 cutlass 442 conv could it be the voltage reg also where should i start from
July 27th, 2010, 05:29 AM
#2
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Idle voltage should be above 13.4V on a healthy battery, lights on. Above idle should be closer to 14V. This applys when the battery is mostly charged.
How old is the battery? It could be starting to give out, OR, you may have something drawing excess current when stopped.
A healthy charged battery should be able start the car after 2-3 weeks if all is okay.
If you have the time, drive the car an hour or so, OR, charge the battery at a 2 amp rate for a few days. Disconnect it fromt he car and charger and let it sit for 2 weeks. If it is dead, then time to shop for a new one. If good, put an ammeter between the battery post and the terminal. Should be less than a couple mA.
How old is the battery? It could be starting to give out, OR, you may have something drawing excess current when stopped.
A healthy charged battery should be able start the car after 2-3 weeks if all is okay.
If you have the time, drive the car an hour or so, OR, charge the battery at a 2 amp rate for a few days. Disconnect it fromt he car and charger and let it sit for 2 weeks. If it is dead, then time to shop for a new one. If good, put an ammeter between the battery post and the terminal. Should be less than a couple mA.
July 27th, 2010, 07:44 AM
#3
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An alternator will not charge a battery that is almost dead. Nothing to excite the alternator. Have the battery checked at the parts house. If its ok then put it on a charger to bring it to full charge. Put a amp meter on the battery and see if you have a draw when the key is in the off position. If you do then you need to find the source of that draw. I have left my dome light on by mistake in the past and drained the battery. Its always the little things that get you.
July 27th, 2010, 02:24 PM
#4
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I installed the rally pack guages before that I dont think I had a problem starting.Tthe amps with the lights on in drive drops to about 12 volts and step on the gas it goes back up to 14 volts
July 28th, 2010, 05:35 AM
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12 is too low. 12.9 may be acceptible somewhat.
13.4V or around ther is ideal IF the battery is healthy.
The alt can push a lot of extra current into a battery that refuses to hold it, causing a low voltage condition. My bike was doing this with a brand new defective battery.
Have your battery tested somewhere that can do a load test.
If the battery is fresh, and idle speed is normal (700 or so), then it might be the time to grab a solid state regulator and try that if you still have the mechanical one.
The rally gauges should not have affected anything if installed properly.
13.4V or around ther is ideal IF the battery is healthy.
The alt can push a lot of extra current into a battery that refuses to hold it, causing a low voltage condition. My bike was doing this with a brand new defective battery.
Have your battery tested somewhere that can do a load test.
If the battery is fresh, and idle speed is normal (700 or so), then it might be the time to grab a solid state regulator and try that if you still have the mechanical one.
The rally gauges should not have affected anything if installed properly.
July 28th, 2010, 02:59 PM
#6
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ok guys got 13.5 volts at idle
12.9 volts in drive
12.2 lights on in drive
11.5 at idle with the ac on
11.2 in drive with the ac on
after running the car for 20 minutes turn the car off an the battery sits at 11.8 volts
12.9 volts in drive
12.2 lights on in drive
11.5 at idle with the ac on
11.2 in drive with the ac on
after running the car for 20 minutes turn the car off an the battery sits at 11.8 volts
July 28th, 2010, 03:38 PM
#7
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Way too low.
Either the regulator or the battery would be my initial suspects.
Put the bat on a charger overnight, the next day disconnect it and let it sit for a few hours, then recheck voltage. It should be around 12.5 at least.
How old is the bat?
Have a shop do a load test on it next.
Do you have a mechanical reg? If so I would replace it with an electronic one.
Did the 72 442 have an internal reg to the alt? If so, then you cannot do the above.
The alt could have an open diode, too.
Either the regulator or the battery would be my initial suspects.
Put the bat on a charger overnight, the next day disconnect it and let it sit for a few hours, then recheck voltage. It should be around 12.5 at least.
How old is the bat?
Have a shop do a load test on it next.
Do you have a mechanical reg? If so I would replace it with an electronic one.
Did the 72 442 have an internal reg to the alt? If so, then you cannot do the above.
The alt could have an open diode, too.
July 28th, 2010, 04:53 PM
#8
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got it rob charging battery over night on a slow charge ill check it tommorow night.if its okay I would suspect its the voltage regulator thanks again guys for the input. the battery was in the car before i bought it last year who knows how long it was in the car before that
July 29th, 2010, 06:36 PM
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ok guys recharged the battery with a charger.unplugged it around 5 a.m the green light came on said charged.checked it around 9p.m voltage reed 12.8 volts connected to the car sat for about an hour and dropped down to 12.74 volts.do we assume that its the voltage regulator.or test the battery one more time tommorow
July 30th, 2010, 06:56 AM
#12
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Yes indeed. I don't have NEAR the battery storage issues I used to have before I got my four-port Tender. Hook it up, plug it in and it does the work. It will bring SG up to or above 1.260 and then maintain it there.
I do try to unplug it for about a week every other month, but I don't think it hurts to just leave it in service all the time. Only reason I do that is someone on the AACA Packard forums had a battery blow up the first time the car was started after winter storage on a Tender and seemed to think the Tender had slightly overcharged it. If I were a betting man, I'd almost think they tried to start the car with the Tender still connected.
Compared to charging five batteries every spring and fall, the Tender is the best investment I ever made for the old cars.
I do try to unplug it for about a week every other month, but I don't think it hurts to just leave it in service all the time. Only reason I do that is someone on the AACA Packard forums had a battery blow up the first time the car was started after winter storage on a Tender and seemed to think the Tender had slightly overcharged it. If I were a betting man, I'd almost think they tried to start the car with the Tender still connected.
Compared to charging five batteries every spring and fall, the Tender is the best investment I ever made for the old cars.
Last edited by rocketraider; July 30th, 2010 at 07:00 AM.
August 2nd, 2010, 02:12 PM
#13
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Ok guys wanted to double check went to autozone parts store put it on the machine and said the battery is fine when i put the lights and ac on at idle it read low output.how do i check the voltage on the alternator and how many volts should it be at.and how do you check if the voltage regulator is good thanks guys
August 3rd, 2010, 05:32 AM
#14
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Do you have the firewall mounted regulator or the one inside the alternator?
If the external one, and it is mechanical, I would replace it with an electronic one. I would do this whether it fixes the problem or not. The mechanical one will fail eventually anyway.
If the external one, and it is mechanical, I would replace it with an electronic one. I would do this whether it fixes the problem or not. The mechanical one will fail eventually anyway.
August 3rd, 2010, 04:03 PM
#16
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Thought I'd put my 2 cents in. A fully charged battery should read about 12.68 at full charge. 12.45 = 75%
12.24 = 50%
12.06 = 25%
Innova and others make a tester (any auto parts store) for about $29.00 that can test batteries, current draw, voltage and a lot more. 14.4 volts at idle with no acc. on is about standard. If you have the car running, you can read the voltage across the battery terminals and it should be around the 14.4 volts. The battery will retain a surface charge for a while after turning the engine off so be aware. Turn the lights on for 30 seconds to get it back to normal if you want to just test the battery. You can also use the tester to measure any current drain by disconnecting the positive battery cable from the battery and testing for current drain in series. Connect the black lead to the positive battery terminal and the red lead to the end of the battery cable (the one that goes to the starter). The draw should read about .017 amps. If it is much more than that, you have a short somewhere. I've seen where sloppy wiring connections to an aftermarket volt meter actually caused it to be grounded when the key was off. It would drain the battery in about two hours. If you have an external regulator, you should test to insure it is providing the proper amps to the battery. I'm not sure what this reading should be as I have an internal regulator. As you've probably seen many times on this site, electrical problems are the worst. Good luck.
12.24 = 50%
12.06 = 25%
Innova and others make a tester (any auto parts store) for about $29.00 that can test batteries, current draw, voltage and a lot more. 14.4 volts at idle with no acc. on is about standard. If you have the car running, you can read the voltage across the battery terminals and it should be around the 14.4 volts. The battery will retain a surface charge for a while after turning the engine off so be aware. Turn the lights on for 30 seconds to get it back to normal if you want to just test the battery. You can also use the tester to measure any current drain by disconnecting the positive battery cable from the battery and testing for current drain in series. Connect the black lead to the positive battery terminal and the red lead to the end of the battery cable (the one that goes to the starter). The draw should read about .017 amps. If it is much more than that, you have a short somewhere. I've seen where sloppy wiring connections to an aftermarket volt meter actually caused it to be grounded when the key was off. It would drain the battery in about two hours. If you have an external regulator, you should test to insure it is providing the proper amps to the battery. I'm not sure what this reading should be as I have an internal regulator. As you've probably seen many times on this site, electrical problems are the worst. Good luck.
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