1970cs, drones will drop it on your door step soon. It's a matter of time. I hate the thought but it's only my opinion....

 

Exactly.


Amazon will deliver it by drone. Or maybe artillery.

- Eric

edit: Ha Ha Robski - Jinx!

 

Yes sir, bottom line is things are changing in this VERY fallen world Eric. I'm very thankful I grew up when I did here in the US (Wisconsin) and have no grand babies to worry about. And now Pam and I help folks that do through my church.....

 

Unfortunately, the problem is that low-skill jobs are going away, and no amount of tweets or threats to automakers or other manufacturing companies will change that. It costs about $8/hr to operate a robotic welder on an auto assembly line vs. about $25/hr for a human welder. Keeping auto production lines in the US won't increase jobs. Truck drivers will be replaced by autonomous trucks, not Mexican trucks.

 

At this time drones are limited on distance. And what happens when this becomes common place with noise pollution from the many drones flying in the air. And then who handles the congestion from many drones flying in the same air space?

How do drones do in inclimate weather?

And my wife ordered me an Olds t-shirt from Amazon 10 days before X-mas. We are still waiting for it to show

Pat

 

I love these threads. They seem to always have the theme of blame someone else for why we lose jobs or the economy or some company closing.
Regardless of the topic "we" are to blame. I grew up in a time when you actively sought out items made in america and willing to pay more for if necessary. You will never see a foreign can in my stable. Sadly it is very difficult today to find items made in the USA. But that is no reason to give up on it. Keep searching.
The attitudes to day is whats called the ME society. F you i want what i want.
The solution , if even it can ever be fixed starts with "YOU and Me "
Support your local companies/contractors. You are actually supporting yourself.
Without the Middle class/blue collar thriving this country is DONE.

 

I also get my 90 % of my parts from my area. I have never used Rock auto. Jegs yes but not if i can get it from the stores in my area.Old school buzzard and i hate the way things are going.

 

What do you think about superior products made outside of the country? I will gladly pay more for American products if they are better.

My phone is Korean, my camera is Japanese, my computers, at least the motherboards, are from somewhere in Asia. My guns are from all over the world and some are American. I own one Toyota, three GMs, and a Ford, and, other than the 98 Tahoe, the domestics are 73 and older. I grew up with Leupold optics, and see no reason to change.

I will proudly by an American product and pay more, and even wear their T shirt and recommend them if they have good customer service and a good product. I will tell a story.

I grew up shooting Leupold scopes on my dad's guns, and I bought one myself with many to follow later. I put this one on a rifle, and took it to a range to sight it in. It was a rainy day, I was under cover, but the scope sucked in moisture and droplets formed inside the glass. I called Leupold up to deal with it. They were nice, and offered their lifetime warranty and told me where to ship it. The lady then asked when I bought it.

Gentle friends, the earth shook this woman when she found out it was new. She immediately went from nice to profoundly embarrassed and willing to do whatever it took to fix the problem. She emailed me an overnight UPS label, and I had a new scope, in my hands, with a letter explaining the problem, the action, both relevant serial numbers, and an apology, in less than 48 hours, which was an overnight ride, both ways, on their dime, an inspection and a decision to send out new product all in that time.

That scope, and some subsequent purchases of 4 more, sit atop weapons of mine and do well. Sure, there are better for more, and maybe better for less, but I will go to them first for new scopes. That's an American company, and American companies deserve loyalty, but American consumers deserve excellence, too.

 

Amazon and other online retailers give you better customer service than many brick and mortar retail stores. Those Brick and Mortar stores that give good enough customer service to offset price differences will survive. The Macy's nearest to us deserves to close, never should have been opened in that location. There is a Macy's within 10 miles the other direction which is doing very well and a better location.

 

Well said 68442...Google USA made. There is plenty of USA made stuff you just have to stay the hell out of the big box houses of chineasium junk. They would not manufacture chineasium if we didnt buy it by the container ship load. When the cashier asks me "did you find everything alright" I say no I couldn't fine the USA made stuff tell your manager Im not shopping here anymore and neither is my family. Or "can I help you"..."yes please direct me to the USA made parts"... "Sorry sir its all offshore junk we carry here"... See ya later bud I only buy USA made parts.
Im a strong supporter of "buy USA". I practice what I preach. Everyone in my circle knows to not buy me anything from china or boast about that POS they bought at harborjunk for $10.00.
If I order from Amazon I look and ask for country of origin. 9 out of 10 times Ill pass if its not USA. Sometimes you really have no choice, such as TVs
I have nothing against German, Swiss, Canadian, Bavarian, Italian etc products. Why...cuz its high quality and safe to use. china is where my problem is for more reasons than just the junk they push out of their factories.
I drive a 2011, F250, 1995 Jeep GC, 68 Olds and a 68 vette. You'll never see foreign junk in my garage. At least not one in my price ranges. Some of it is definitely not junk...Lambo, Ferrari, Audi, BMW, Mercedes etc...and their non irritating non low budget commercials reflect that class and refinement.
So yes the bottom line is WE did this to our selves. I see no reason why we cant turn the tides. All it takes is a polar shift in mentality and an awareness that we must pass on to our kids. Mine sure get it. None of my kids are entitlement, jobless, societal boat anchor, pierced, inked, pants dragging, disrespectful, Me, Me, Me, I, I, I, brats that could care less about their country. I raised them right and they were all brought home from the hospital in a 68 442! It starts with US ladies and gents and proper parenting of course.

 

I think it is a combination of a number of things. In some cases it is bad management coupled with over expansion and expensive leases. But the single most reason is the online sales. Companies don't even inventory a lot of this stuff, it is drop shipped by the manufacturer. This cuts down on the amount of inventory they are required to carry and the amount of warehouse space they require and there is no retail space. The other part was mentioned by therobski and that is fighting the traffic and crowds. It is amazing how quick Amazon gets stuff to my doorstep. Shopping malls in the country are dying quickly and it is not must the big box retailers.

 

Many of you have talked of wanting great service and not being able to find it in this day and age, service is an art and for the most part its a lost or dying art. Another common thought has been business sacrificing service and instock conditions for the almighty bottom line dollar. I have to agree with all of this whole heatedly. Retailing is a lost art, the days of quality products sold by caring service minded employees who REALLY care about there customers are GONE. Until two weeks ago I had a carrier in retail that I started over 30 years ago. For the last 17 years I was a store manager for a large grocery chain. But these companies have absolutely no regard for their employees or there customers, their only loyalty is to there bank account and their shareholders. I have been very fortunate and have been given an opportunity to get out of retail completely and still make a good living and I thank god for this opportunity every day. I honestly didn't know jobs like the one I have today existed. There are a few small retailers left in our communities who are service oriented but thanks to the companies like Walmart most have not been able to survive. The days of great service we all miss from great company's who cared for their employees and customers above all are gone. Yes its sad but it is the reality of today. I can say this in complete confidence as it was part of my life for a very long time. So if you have a good local business that still cares about you as a customer support them.
CJ

 

I mentioned the Allstate I saw last year. Here are some pictures including the Allstate swamp cooler. I hope these go through.

 

Short term gains made by greedy Wall Street trumps good service.

 

Looks like there's still a chance that some CMan tools will be Made in USA. http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ite-house-win/

Stanley also owns Proto and Mac.

It will be interesting to see what they do about the massive lifetime warranty on all the pre-buyout tools out there.

 

IMO, the U.S. is "over stored" anyway......not enough business for ALL OF THEM so something's got to give and that means you don't want to be at the bottom of the retailing food chain like Sears/KMart is.

It's not all their fault......the larger retailers like Sears, etc have been getting a "death by a thousand cuts" for decades now. First you had Walmart picking off customers on the low priced goods end of the spectrum and THEN the rest of the wolves started feeding in the form of "specialty" retailers......HDepot and Lowes start taking hardware/tools/appliances, Best Buy in appliances/electronics, all the other "newer" soft goods retailers across a massive spectrum......Kohl's, TJ Maxx, etc.

Hell, who cares about a Die Hard battery?......you can go down the street to any number of auto parts stores and get a good battery with a good warranty and if you do have to return it that process will likely be much easier at the auto parts store. Nothing special or unique about their tool line either (although the selection is fairly large).

These full line department store companies are/were getting "attacked" from all sides/departments now (for a couple decades at least). Amazon may be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

One strategy (if you can call it that), pre-Great Recession, was to invest in Sears stock as a real estate play. Credible analysis put a sum-of-the-parts value on the company approaching (or maybe exceeding) $200/share.

The stock closed at $10.39 yesterday and I don't think they've paid any dividends or special distributions IN MANY YEARS (ie - company's stock prices can drop to reflect spin-offs, special dividends, etc).

But I guess the continued deterioration in store conditions, attempts at smaller Sears stores and other "great ideas" continued to hurt sales/run off customers.

They really have no "unique" selling proposition any longer....what they sell and offer can be found MANY other places.

They spun off some of the real estate awhile back but I don't remember how the $ were used....sent to shareholders or instead put back into cash sucking black hole that the company now appears to be. I suspect they just raised money, retained it and are now spending it trying to keep the doors open (as opposed to a typical spin off where shareholders reap the benefits).....this thing is MUCH too far gone for management to worry about "rewarding shareholders".

Even Lampert had to make a $500 million loan to the company recently I believe.

Upper management has been a sort of revolving door as well as Lampert seems to keep running off or going through executives. I suspect they get there, take a look around and THEN realize this thing is a much bigger mess than they were led to believe (although they probably aren't that "green" and the world's probably not lacking for management-suite level retail managers looking for jobs so maybe they figure, WTH, "I'll give it a shot as they are paying me some good $ and I don't have any other prospects right now").

For whatever reason, the market doesn't buy the sum-of-the-parts value play/real estate play any longer ("market" attitudes change all the time) and the outlook is definitely grim.

JCPenney may or may not recover from its near death experience a couple years back. They are also on thin ice but arguably doing a lot more things "right" compared to Sears.

My (and others) central thesis is the US is still very "over stored" and the winnowing process is a long long process as these companies keep finding enough lifelines to struggle along. Demographics (older folks don't spend like they did in their peak earnings years) and possible "lifestyle"/ cultural changes in the younger generations (simplification lifestyle - less "stuff") may accelerate the fallout at some point in the near future.

Interesting to watch but a definite minefield when it comes to betting or investing in many of these retailers.

If you ask me this company will file for bankruptcy protection very soon (this year or early next).....it's just not working for them.

 

Very cool, I had a 1967 Sears 15 foot fiberglass runabout boat with a Sears outboard engine I planned to restore but sold to free up some space.
Remember those funky tuffskin jeans that would never fade?

 

That's easy (the lifetime warranty)....file for bankruptcy protection and all bets are off. It's the LEAST OF their worries right now.

 

I agree that customer service is **** poor! I have a major grocery store chain which started in this state and headquarters here, that I have been going to since I was born. It used to be a great place with good pricing compared to Spartan branded stores. They are unionized, not to much problem with employees.

They have ran the Spartan brand out of business wherever they have opened! Now since the original owner died a decade ago, the prices have been raised and the customer service and supply of materials food, clothes and etc. can be tough to get (high volume store) Walmart does not have this logistic problem.

I still run into stocking problems even at 7 AM when the store should be ready! (side bar) last Sunday I was speaking to my regular lane supervisor at this same store about my concerns and another customer heard my comments and she chimed in and said he is correct. And yes I have spoke with department managers, store managers and the corporation itself about my concerns. I have given them plenty of time to react 1.5 years and things are still the same!

We have started shopping at other places, even though we have to drive past them. My wife has the same view.

Now if you walk into my dealership a single store operation. The person or persons you are in contact with are career people and have more than decade of experience or multi decade. We will help you with information of any sort and if we can not help you, we will tell you who can!

Now the people that burn me up, are the ones that buy their materials, parts or equipment from other places. And then they come in wanting warranty coverage (which is not a good money maker) or need information or specifications. When you buy from the big box stores at a cheap price, when you put gas in it, it's your problem, they only sell! No parts besides normal maint. items and no service department.

I do understand that a few do move into the area from other places and have no choice.

Pat

 

What does that even mean? You invest in the stock market to make money. Nobody is doing it for altruistic reasons.

 

Getting back specifically to the Craftsman/Stanley thing for a moment, an article on this I saw just now mentioned something I wasn't aware of. Stanley Tool is actually "Stanley Black and Decker." Stanley merged with B&D in 2010. So Stanley itself is already a combination of two large tool companies (plus several smaller ones).

Stanley currently sells tools under the DeWalt, Porter-Cable, Stanley, and Black and Decker names, and now Craftsman will be added to that list.

 

Exactly. There is nothing greedy about wanting to earn money. One person's "greed" is another person's livelihood.

As just one example, many people's retirement plan investments (401k, 403b, IRA, etc.) if they're still working and retirement income if they're now retired comes from stock dividends. Without them, those retirees go hungry.

 

Exactly right. It's more of the Get the Rich nonsense.
How does Shareholder Greed bring down Sears but companies like Apple & Costco flourish? Are those shareholders not greedy?

 

I have one of those, too. Didn't know they were from Sears, so thanks for posting that info.

 

Wow. That has deteriorated fast. I guess Sears' advertising tagline from the '70s--Solid as Sears--doesn't exactly mean what it used to. The last time I had to get a ratchet replaced was in about 2010. It was a run-of-the-mill 3/8-inch model and the guy behind the counter didn't mince words. He reached into a tool chest behind the counter and pulled out a reconditioned U.S. made ratchet, handed it to me and even said 'thank you'. Given that the brand new ratchets they were selling were Chinese made, I figure the one I got was better than new.

My dad was always a big fan of Craftsman tools and this summer, when my parents were packing up and getting rid of stuff in preparation for a move into an apartment in a retirement community, Dad told me to go into the garage and get any of his tools that I wanted. I spent a couple of hours sorting through stuff and carrying off a goodly stash of old-school Craftsman tools. I left all the newer 'made in China' crap behind.



Speaking of Harbor Freight, they will only honor their lifetime warranty if you have the original cash register receipt.

 

If we are going down this path why not make a sticky list of who makes and sells USA tools for our cars. I think there are brands that people are not sure who makes the tools.

 

Actually... Not really.

Traditionally, most investors (primarily huge institutions such as pension funds, mutual funds, etc.) have invested for long term growth. When your grandfather bought Polaroid, or IBM, or GM, or AT&T, he wasn't buying to make a quick sale during a spike next month and then roll the few bucks he picked up there into a promising startup, he was buying to hold onto something that would appreciate in value over the decades, and possibly make himself rich, or at least more comfortable, in his later years. Companies whose stock value increased reliably over decades were (and are) companies that deal in predictable business, that treat their employees reasonably well, and that don't make too many rash moves.

Conversely, since the 1980s, you have had a vast increase in instruments such as "junk bonds" and derivatives, along with hostile corporate takeovers whose aim is to dismember and sell a company to liquidate the value of its assets, and these tactics have been pursued by a large number of fund managers, thus making them seem "normal." These tactics undervalue employees (except top management), relationships, hierarchies, "corporate cultures," pension plans (which may be saleable as assets), and plants and equipment (which, if you can move manufacturing overseas, can be sold for a profit). None of these tactics is aimed at enhancing the long-term value of a company's stock, but rather at booting the value as high as possible in the short term, so that the CEO and his friends can earn large bonuses, then cash their stocks out, and move on.

Responsible investors see themselves as part owners of a company (which they are), and take an interest in its health and continued profitability, and also understand the value of a company to its local community and to the country as a whole: Company lays off all employees and moves to China = Bad for the US, and quite possibly Bad for the company in the long run, if uncontrollable circumstances change (such as the friendliness of the dictatorial Chinese government, the cost of intercontinental shipping, and the cost of Chinese labor, which has already increased immensely as the Chinese have become more "middle class").

So, actually, responsible investors, of the kind that used to be common, were somewhat altruistic, in addition to wanting to make money. They recognized that there was no such thing as a free lunch, and that very high rates of growth were unsustainable in the long run, and invested for stability, their own, and that of the company and of the country.

Today's investors do have the "screw 'em all" attitude that you and several others have described, and it is one of the main reasons why this country is in the mess that it is in.

- Eric

 

You nailed it Eric. Anyone who has worked for a large company knows this. That's why these Executives get massive salaries,bonuses and futures by just driving the stock prices up, selling off anything they can, cut more than they should to the detriment of the company, then cash out. Many times the company later goes under leaving employees and pension plans in ruins. Now very few companies are even healthy enough to offer pension plans or other benefits. Then they wonder why today's youth won't be loyal to their cause and try to enforce it without much luck while paying didley squat. Whew! How's that for a rant!

 

Our local Canadian Tire store or Napa the next city over is my parts source, for basic maintenance parts. I buy US made Napa Gates belts over Mexican Torque Thrust from Canadian Tire for example. Olds specific parts, online or from Olds specific vendors.

 

Put-r-ther, Exactly whats happening in the world today... the real deal!!!! Sad its all about the $$ now. Hopefully our kids will change things going forward.

 

A very good rant!

Sears had catalog shopping, which was the on-line shopping of it's day. You saw something you liked in the catalog, ordered it, and it got delivered.

Then someone decided to save money for the stockholders and they abandon the catalog and Sears lost it's identity. *poof*

 

Interesting you should mention this.

A moment of research shows that:

• In 1989, Sears first introduced a toll-free 800 number for ordering (by their own admission).

• In 1993, Sears discontinued their catalogue.

• In 1995, Amazon and eBay began.


For comparison, Land's End put out their first clothing (non-sailing) catalogue in 1977, LLBean started their color catalogue in 1979, and Land's End started their first 800 number in 1978.


So... They waited until EVERYBODY in the universe with a catalogue had an 800 number before they introduced their own, then they killed their catalogue four years later, just as catalogue companies were becoming extremely profitable, and, even though their format was essentially made-for-internet, they dropped their catalogue two years before other companies, who had no business history, no deep inventory, and no pre-existing computerized database of products and customers started theirs.


Yeah, I'd say they were mismanaged.


- Eric

 

Eric,

Very well put.

 

One recent article in the business press discussing the current Sears saga:

http://www.businessinsider.com/sears...chances-2017-1

 

Great (if depressing) article. This graphic pretty much tells it all:

 

Agreed. Just read it. Fascinating.

Sears is sunk.

- Eric

 

So why are Sears stock holders any different from any other company? Any & every publicly traded company is doomed to fail? Doesn't make any sense.

 

See illustration above.

54.6% of Sears shares are owned by one guy, who also happens to be the CEO, and who stands to profit handsomely whether Sears succeeds or goes bankrupt.

- Eric

 

I think it's more like corporate greed. The shareholder is just along for the ride. It's been going on for 30 years that I can remember. Don't know how it was before then, but management has progressively, distanced themselves from any type of reality on what it's like to live.

95% of my tools are craftsman. Some are S K, but they are near impossible to find aside from getting hammered at Grainger. I'm out on buying foreign so if I cannot find Proto or Armstrong, which is just as difficult, my choices are MAC or the internet, which of course could be knock off forgeries.

Joe haven't been to Carlisle in years, but would love to get there every year since, but I do remember getting replacements for sockets and wrenches that some how eh... vanished after a project was tackled. Kind of like the "what the hell was that noise" on a test drive. As a younger man my haste created a void in my tool box. I must have bought 50 1/2" & 9/16'' sockets over the years. As I progressed into my late 20's early 30's I developed a well needed system of making sure, twice, that everything went back in the box. Now, almost 50 I can't remember what was in the box to begin with.

 

As a "public"/individual shareholder PART OF what you state above is WHAT YOU USUALLY REALLY WANT as a shareholder.... ie - top level management with REAL SKIN IN THE GAME (stock owned by insiders).

Unfortunately, with Sears, it's gone beyond that with his ownership of and control factors via his Seritage holdings.

His SHLD ownership FAR EXCEEDS the typically paltry level of stock ownership by insiders at most publicly traded companies. Most insiders don't have much at risk.....Lampert does but he's offset a lot of it through Seritage and making loans to SHLD.

Take away the Seritage dealings/holdings and he would be the poster child for "I put my money where my mouth is".

The kidnap story background is kind of funny.....I think what happened is the miscreants (maybe they were pissed because they had been turned down recently when applying for a Sears credit card ) kidnapped him and took him to a hotel room. At some point they ordered pizza and he somehow managed to talk them into letting him go (maybe he sprung for the pizza?).

Anyway, the pizza ordering was the nail in the kidnappers' coffins......the police were able to figure out who they were from the pizza ordering.