2blu442

We've had a disagreement between two members. One is a moderator. The fact that he's a moderator has nothing to do with the issue at hand. We're a community here, but we come from different backgrounds and have different ideas. We need some sideboards to keep the site functioning as intended. I just want to give a friendly reminder of the rules of conduct all members agreed to.

1. Keep in mind that this is not a democracy. We have the right to refuse service to anyone. If you make yourself too big of a pain in the butt to the moderating community or otherwise are a bad influence on the forum, your access may be revoked.

2. Attacks on moderators will not be tolerated, and may result in an immediate permanent ban. Moderators sometimes have to make difficult judgment calls, but remember we *are* human (well at least most of us are!) Hopefully we'll make decisions that are considered "correct" by the majority of the community. Do not post complaints, criticisms, or moderation questions on the forum. These posts will be deleted and no explanation will be given. If you have a concern about a particular moderator, send a private message to a Super Moderator or Administrator. And if you have constructive suggestions on improvements that can be made to the forum or its moderation, please post them in the Suggestions area.

3. Personal attacks against other forum members will not be tolerated, nor will any type of "trolling" for a fight. This includes political attacks, slurs, or sneering at any viewpoint or political party.

4. This is not a flame war site, so please do not engage in such. No distinction will be made between the instigator and those who merely participate.

5. No racist, homophobic, or misogynistic remarks, including derogatory slang, be it overt or covert, will be tolerated.

6. Be respectful. This is harder to define, but will be moderated. An example would be disrespecting Oldsmobile owners who chose an automatic transmission over a manual, and "sneering" at them or acting like they're idiots for the choice they made. A certain amount of generalities can be acceptable (i.e. "little cars with fart pipes sound crappy" or "let's not talk about Chebbies or Ferds here"). As we all know there is a certain amount of pride in any particular forum for the subject automobile of that forum. If a moderator believes you are being purposefully disrespectful to a fellow member, you will be notified. Bashing for the sake of bashing will not be tolerated.

7. Don't make slanderous accusations. If you have a problem with another member or business, and cannot prove it absolutely, don’t bring in into the forum. It could be treated as grounds for a lawsuit if you do. Provide your proof in any such posts. Post with accusations but no proof will be deleted, and the poster will be notified.

8. No sexually explicit material, nudity, or graphic violence are to be posted. The rule of thumb is that if it's something you wouldn't see on network TV, don't post it. The forum strives to maintain a welcoming and family type atmosphere for its members. Any attempts, overt or covert, to undermine this goal will not be tolerated.

9. If you are posting a new thread, do not use vulgarity in the title of the thread. Inside a thread, profanity will only be allowed if used in a controlled manner, and not directed at a particular forum member. Again, just try and be respectful of other forum members.

10. Do not post a thread solely aimed at getting the attention of another forum member (i.e. posting ATTENTION JOHN DOE!) The forum provides a private messaging system for contacting individual forum members.

11. Posts soliciting for multilevel marking schemes (e.g. Free Ipod or similar) are not allowed, nor are any posts soliciting donations for ANY reason without special permission from forum Administration.

12. Multiple posts about the same thing across many forums are considered "spamming" the site and may result in the poster being banned.

13. Allowable sales of items must be done via our Classified section, and users must read and agree to the Classifed Section Rules (below).

14. Please include a descriptive subject for your thread. People shouldn't have to open the thread to find out what the topic is!

15. ClassicOldsmobile.com has a very useful search feature. Many questions that new members might have will already have been answered - we recommend that you do a search first before posting a question.

allyolds68

How about you just reinstate F85 and cut the crap. It was a minor beef between him and a moderator. People are passionate about Olds and keeping Olds engines in them.

Koda

I respectfully disagree with the third sentence, sir.

2blu442

The minor beef sounded more like a flaming comment to me. Then he escalated it by saying a moderator was behaving with a heavy hand.

Yes, I know people are passionate about many things. But sometimes we have to take a breath and walk away from the computer for a few minutes. Have a cold drink and relax before posting a reply.

2blu442

Well, if someone flamed you as soon as one of the moderators became aware of it they would have contacted the person who flamed you and told them to back off. If that person continued to attack you then they would have been given an infraction. If they continued to stir the pot they would have been given a time out. Been done many times before and likely will happen again in the future.

Rule #2 does go a little further, but F85 wasn't given a permanent ban.

I did try to communicate with F85 repeatedly asking him to stop escalating the conflict.


John

oldcutlass

F-85's comments were derogatory, disrespectful, and with malice. I would have acted the same way if the attack were directed at another member here. He was warned 3 times not to pursue the attack and he chose to continue.

Boldsmobile

Link to post please?

Boldsmobile

Found it.

Saw nothing derogatory or malice about this, was there a post I missed?



F85 can't have an opinion?

What does "if you want to step up mean?"

What does "ball is in your court mean?"

76olds

Not knowing the whole deal here myself, also being new to the CO forum, I would just like to say that bullying, bashing, flaming as I guess stated here has been at the forefront for several years on many sites including Facebook. Opinions have varied throughout life things still happen such as road rage, bar brawls, the list goes on with much more magnification with the touch of a keypad and computer. Its unfortunate but the world hasn't changed the computer has just enhanced this its been going on since the stone age IMO. I'm just wondering if a moderator can close a thread temporarily with an explanation to the poster and re-open it until cooler heads prevail.

nsnarsk65cutlass

Everyone's entitled to their opinion,and they can do what ever they what to their cars even if you don't agree with it. Sometimes people get to emotional on here it doesn't matter who they are.Imo.Nick

rcktdoc

Im in agreement, F85s banning was petty and he should have never been banned for speaking his opinion. I have more to say but I better not.

Greg

coppercutlass

F85 usually does not get involved much and this is the first time I heard of him flaming someone on etc etc and its really not that bad I guess people just are offended easy. There has been some "over moderation" and Im not gonna say who but its been talked about. I have gotten into it with other people wayyyyy worse and that comment really merits a ban or a slap on the hand ? REALLY ! If that's the case thats just mind boggling if the comments where along that line but I guess people get bothered too soon. I mean some people can walk away from the computer or some people can grow thicker skin. Now if he had said why would you put a hunk of junk motor in there thats make you car a worthless piece of $*^% . I would take that as flaming. I never had the urge to really converse with a moderator but if someone feels that someone is heavy handed then yeah its gonna happen and its been talked about between a few people and I doubt it will be the last mishap.




Its kinda like the neighborhood watch guy. You will have one guy who is stand up and knows the rules but will only enforce if truly needed. Then you will have the guy who walks the neighborhood looking to give the residents a hassle as soon as he see's something wrong with their property or around it. It eventually becomes bothersome.


Or kinda like a boss that hovers over you while you work. You will eventually say something. In my case im very quick to and do not care what he has to say I will not have my job held against me so trying to over power me with his status is meaningless. That's how it feels sometimes .

barnfind

Wow!!! dont go on any of the mopar sites if you think that thread was offensive

Smitty275

The following is an OPINION. It is not directed at any one person(s). It is my opinion along with a few questions.


Well, not having seen the entire thread and I assume it is deleted, I'd say the admin was as out of line as the offender. Sounds like offender was given a warning for not liking a Chevy engine in an Olds. That started a conflict between the two.


So now lets ask this question of everyone; What does Classic Oldsmobile mean?
#1 Does it mean an Olds that is kept Olds through and through?


#2 Does it mean any Olds body no matter how it has been modified or taken away from being a true Olds? I.E. Different engine, different rear end, donked, slammed, chopped top, etc. etc. etc.


In my opinion it is #1.
Once a car has different brand of engine it is no longer a classic in any way. Once again that is my opinion.
Same goes for modifications that take it away from the visual aspect that represents what an Olds was meant to be such as turning one into a donk. There is nothing classic about it. Once again, my opinion.
There are some that say my Olds being used as a race car makes it not a classic Olds. In my defense all I have to do is change back to original springs and bolt the original wheels on and it looks like any other Olds with a new paint job. So to me it is still classic. Once again that is their opinion and my opinion.
What I do not understand in any way at all is why the moderator took such offense to begin with because someone made a comment about having a Chevy in his Olds. Unless it is one of the cars that had Chevy installed engines from the factory. Sounds like the moderator did as much to escalate the situation as did the offender by responding to the comment. Anyone who posts on an Olds sight knows well in advance the position of hard core Olds enthusiast. Once again, my opinion.


I'm just asking a question here, I don't know what kinds of rules moderators are supposed to follow. Do moderators get to make decisions solely on their own? Or do they consult other moderators to make sure they aren't seeing something out of context or maybe be out of line themselves? I'm sure everyone will agree that sometimes people assume a position of authority just to end up abusing it themselves when someone doesn't agree with them. I'm not saying that is or is not the case in this instance but it has happened in the real world and on the net.

76olds

I don't know the history at all with F85's deal. However it seems he has been a member for a long while as a part seller etc, I just think its terrible to ruin someone's possible bread and butter if that's his business here selling olds parts for such comments. The old days someone would pick themselves up off the floor and deal with it . Computers have changed all this unfortunately. You can ruin someone nowadays with the push of a button.

coppercutlass

I don't know how many times I pick on my friends which are chevy and ford guys for being ford guys and somehow we are still friends. It's kinda like bs'ing while you have a few beers you pick on each other in a friendly manner. I get picked on for having a slowsmobile even though I had the fastest car out of the bunch for a while but I didn't tell my friends they where gonna get banned from my life because if it .

rcktdoc

Almost ALL Oldsmobile owners are very passionite about Cross breading other brand engines in Oldsmobiles, and consider it a basterdization and a sin.Why should someone be banned from an OLDSMOBILE site for being passionate about his beliefs. Doent make much sence to me.

Greg

76olds

When 2blu442 wakes up and tunes in 2day we may all be banned from CO for our comments so I will say my goodbye's now lol, Cheers guys its been a blast put'r'ther..... ANUF-SAID

Olds92

This!!! Back then what made every car its own brand was their engine. To me the whole point of OLDSMOBILE is their OLDSMOBILE engine. Josh wakes up every single day to a shop with currently 9 Oldsmobiles inside and 3 outside. Not to mention massive amounts of Oldsmobile parts and engines around. To ban this guy who liturally lives Olds everyday is just shocking. He was only defending the brand Oldsmobile on an Oldsmobile forum.

drop top olds

Personally, I think the moderator "assumed" malice in the response where there is none. Posting text in a forum, and communication by e mail it is easy for one party to inject emotion into words where none was intended. In my view the moderator overreacted to the comment.
The moderator can own an Olds and put a fricken Honda engine in it if he wants to. Would I think he is an Olds guy.......No. I would think he screwed up a nice car. That is my opinion. It is not said with malice. Just not a fan of cross breeding. Don't know too many people that would like a Ford engine in a Chevy or vice versa. The LS swap is everywhere, that does not mean I "like" it. When I see people do cross breed engine swaps the "Classic" becomes a modified car, more like a "Hot Rod" to me. Guess I'll get banned too, if someone soils their tidy whities.

rallye bob

I knew there was a reason I don't visit this site much.....
Ladies, please!

815Cutlass1972

100% correct. Total overreaction.Everyone has the right to do what they want to their car, but this is a Oldsmobile site at the end of the day point blank period!

66-3X2 442

Sounded like the moderator is the one who over reacted.Telling a member/poster that they can't win is over the line in my opinion. Personally I don't care what kind of engine he has but I would be embarrassed myself to be on an Oldsmobile board with anything other than an Oldsmobile engine in an my car. Over moderation will kill a message board,hope it doesn't happen here.

barnfind

Question, Do the mods read each and every thread, many have offenses to these rules, yet noting is said or done. How did this thread result in a ban?

59-59-59

So someone with basically a Chevelle was able to ban someone from this Oldsmobile site?? That's hilarious!

2blu442

OK, I'm awake... at least I'm working on my first cup of coffee. I'll try to shed some light on the reason for me posting this thread last night.

Yes, it looks like the post where F85 crossed the line was deleted. I can't remember exactly what he said, but it was along the lines of

"Your just a chevy guy who can't afford a Chevelle" "I've no idea how you became a moderator" I think there was another phrase that I considered inappropriate, but I don't remember it right now.

A couple years ago the moderators decided to create a non-oldsmobile forum to allow those who've swapped different engines into their cars to post about their work. There was a lot of discussion, some agreed some didn't. Bottom line, the decision was made. For those who don't like that, just don't visit that forum.

There was some back and forth through PM's last night. The moderator told F85 something to the effect of "don't go there, you'll loose that fight" F85 interpreted that as the moderator being heavy handed so he created a post called Moderator Threats, and that post was deleted. I told him to cool off, and stop trying to pick a fight with another member. He repeated it two more times and each time it was deleted

He verbally bashed another member. That member tried to communicate through a PM. I don't know specifically what kind of threat F85 felt he was under. But the decision to allow people to become members even if they put a different engine in their car has been decided. We're not going to fight that battle again, its been over and the decision is final.

In my book both F85 and oldscutlass are stand up guys who've I've communicated and been involved in buying and selling parts to. I think F85 posted something without considering how it would come across. If he had made a similar post about anybody I or one of the other moderators would have responded in the same manner oldscutlass did.

I'd like to end this and move on. We're all human and sometimes we say things we should have kept to ourselves. Due to F85's comments he was given a 3 day ban. After that I hope things go back to normal. As moderators we have volunteered to help keep this site working as intended. But we need all members to work with us and keep discussions within the sideboards of the site. If anyone has a question or comment that you don't want to post here your welcome to contact me through a PM or email. John

67 Cutlass Freak

Unfortunately I did not see the thread with the comments, and now it seems to have been deleted. I have met Josh (F85), and he is a real good guy. He lives eats and breaths Oldsmobile. When he craps, every one looks like a Rocket. I think he is an asset to any Oldsmobile website. This is just my opinion, but I think before anyone is banned, it should be voted on amongst the administrators. The admin, Oldcutlass has helped to keep a lot of threads on track, and been forced to delete a lot of negative comments. For the most part I think this is good. There comes a time when it does seem like he has ruled with a heavy hand. I feel this is one of them. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I agree with some of the other posters, that to install a Chevy engine into a "Classic Oldsmobile", really is like removing a cars heart and soul. Now it's just another Chevy with a bastard body.

2blu442

"I agree with some of the other posters, that to install a Chevy engine into a "Classic Oldsmobile", really is like removing a cars heart and soul. Now it's just another Chevy with a bastard body.[/QUOTE]"

You have every right to think that. Just don't get into another members face and flame them if they do something different with their car.

Olds92

Honestly I dont think a 3 day ban is going to do anything to change Josh's mind. Hes a stand up guy and he will always stand up for what he believes in.

2blu442

And that's fine, I'm not trying to change what he believes. But I am asking that he keep those thoughts to himself. We're not going to re-hash what kind of cars are and are not acceptable for people to own.

Olds92

So what youre saying is that hes not allowed to have an opinion?

GAOldsman

I see both sides of this coin. I agree with Eric on his choice of mils as far as feasibility goes. The original engine went south and he put a Chevy engine in his Cutlass. Once the original engine is no longer an option, do we scrap the car because we cannot afford another engine of the same make or displacement? No. Manufacturers have for decades put engines from different makes into their new cars. Does this make an all original #'s matching 1969 Cutlass with a Chevy L6 bastardized? Not hardly.

I know of people that put Chevy mils in Fords and vice versa, just to p*ss off the purists. Eric has been chastised by Oldsmobile purists ever since he done the swap. Did he do it to p*ss off the purists? NO! He done it to 1) keep the Oldsmobile on the road and 2) because of what was affordable and feasible to him.

I see little difference in upgrading the engine to a big block Olds from a small block Olds than putting any other GM engine in a Oldsmobile. If it was born with a small block, then it is modified when you "upgrade" to a big block. Just like it is modified when you put a different make engine in a car. Either way in the long run, it is modified! A car can only be factory original once, after that it is either restored or modified. This is not my cup of tea, but I do not hold that against Eric for doing so. If my U code 455 ever went south, another 455 would replace it if I couldn't rebuild the original. Would it be bastardized by doing so? In my opinion, yes.

I own a hot rod '35 Dodge coupe and a '67 Chevy stepside that has had three V8's put in it since I was in high school. I still have the original L6 that came with the truck that will possibly return to it's rightful place one day. Are these vehicles bastards? In some people's eyes, yes. Do I care? No. Like Eric, it's the fact that I am the proud owner and it's about what I can afford and enjoy. Rather than to sell these vehicles or even worse scrap them just because I cannot please others. Get real. Anyone can build a small block Chevy for about 1/3 the cost of say building an Olds, Poncho or Buick of the same displacement. My point is that not everyone can afford to build an Olds, myself included. Does this mean I need to sell my Oldsmobile just because I wouldn't be able to rebuild the engine at this time? Who are you to say? Do I not belong to a make specific forum where my expertise extends beyond just that make? Who are you to say? Should I leave a forum because my opinion differs from others? Who are you to say? If we were all like minded and had the same opinion, what a boring world would we live in?

I also know how easy it is to misunderstand one another on a forum or over an email. I guess that is why Skype is popular with the younger crowd. Expression and tone can be taken several ways with any given sentence. Although I have doubtfully made my point with everyone, I am quite sure I've p*ssed off a few. Everyone needs thicker skin and try to be a bit more understanding before flaming others. Unless of course you foot the bill, then you have every right to flame on. But chances are that if you foot the bill, then you already own the car and not someone elses. Just my $0.02

2blu442

No, that's not what I'm saying. But he has to allow others to have a different opinion and not get in their face if they disagree with him.

Olds92

To me it looks like Oldcutlass was instigating F-85. So if he doesnt agree with something he can just delete the thread or post? And I feel his PM was threatening.

Look on this thread on ROP. He posted a picture of the PM from Oldcutlass and mentioned that he never responded back to it. Seems hes the bigger person here. And it looks like his PM was a threat.

http://realoldspower.prophpbb.com/topic4562.html

as a moderator I think he should of handled it a lot differently. More professionally.

wr1970

Why isn't the guy who banned F85 comments no being looked at?I say in my opinion he being the moderator made threat and carried it out! I call that being heavy handed.

dnmfranco

Interesting that was first thing that caught my intention out of every phrase-"you will not win"

Well hopefully everything gets worked out
Dean

2blu442

I disagree. When I read the post it was F85 who flamed oldscutlass. We're not going to fight the battle of "you can't be on CO if you put a different engine in your Olds"

Different issue. If you send me a private message do you want me keeping it private? Is it OK for me to make it public without your consent?

dnmfranco

that's a good point

Olds92

On that note is it okay for moderators to threaten you through a PM? I feel like F-85 handled it correctly by making it known to the members that he was being threatened by a moderator instead of just arguing back and forth with a moderator

rustyroger

Absolutely this isn't a democracy.


I too have disagreed with other members, quite possibly some of them were moderators. But we got over it and if I didn't make a new friend I hope at least I didn't make an enemy.
I know nothing of the background to this particular thread, but I get the impression that things got overheated, probably in a way that wouldn't happen in a face to face encounter.


It does strike me as washing dirty laundry in public to some extent, and has the possibly undesired effect of making us curious as to what all the fuss is about.
Perhaps this entire thread should be removed at least until all concerned have calmed down. At the moment we have a moderator saying F85 is a bad guy and other members either agreeing or coming to his defense.
Without the facts we cannot make an informed judgement, I know this site isn't a democracy, but could it be a benign despotism at least?.


Roger.